Bosendorfer 290

[Finale]

"Le concert, c'est moi." - Liszt

[marino]

Originally posted by Bridog6996:

There's also Walter Gieseking, who had memorized the complete works of Beethoven by the age of 16.

Well, while we are at it, we can also mention Camille Saint-Seans, who made his debut as a concert pianist at the age of 10, and said that he would play any of the 32 Beethoven sonatas, at the audience's request and by heart!!!

 

I love Gieseking's recordings of Mozart, Beethoven and Debussy. He was an incredible musician. But in terms of pure technical command of the piano, many pianists can be considered superior to him: Godowsky, Pollini, etc.

[Bridog6996]

The most intriguing thing to me about Gieseking is that he supposedly learned Beethoven's complete works without practicing a single note. In fact, he supposedly learned everything that way. According to his wife, he would sit for hours studying scores and practicing "in his mind." He would then finally sit down at the piano play the pieces flawlessly and entirely from memory, no matter what the difficulty. Legend has it that he never "practiced" ever throughout life.

 

Pretty interesting, although highly doubtful.

[Finale]

The greatest pianists debate is a very subjective one. Some people prefer perfection of technique and pure sound, others prefer emotional and metaphysical playing, others prefer superhuman extreme performances, etc.

 

IMHO, there were many great pianists at a similar level than Liszt. Don't forget also that many composers were also monster pianists : Rachmaninov, Beethoven, Chopin, Prokofiev, Skriabin, Bartók, just to name a few.

 

It is said that Bartók, despite his frail stature, had steel hands and could play louder than any other pianist in concert. See on the caricature here how he could easily destroy a piano :

 

http://www.good-music-guide.com/images/bartok_caricature2.gif

[Bridog6996]

If you think about it, Liszt really was the creator of an image that today is a rockstar cliche.

 

He was the first performer to tour with a giant entourage and road crew. Especially when he did an organ tour, he used the same organ for every performance. They didn't have the benefit of an Electro (or even a Hammond) back then. Those organs are frickin' massive, and it had to be careful dismantled, transported, and rebuilt at the next venue. He also frequently made somewhat ridiculous demands of the hiring venue, which we now refer to as the contract rider. He was a pretty flamboyant performer, and quite the ladies' man. Not only was he probably the first musical sex symbol, he got more than his fair share of women, and it's probably because of him that we now have groupies. He was quite the pioneer, that Liszt.

 

I realize that this is now WAY off topic, but what can I say? I like talking about pianists.

[Dave Horne]

To show how times have changed, now we have guys on the cover of Keyboard who can hold a keyboard though not play it extremely well and we have featured articles on groups whose keyboard player can't really play very well and who even admit they haven't studied theory.

[gangsu]

Originally posted by marino:

Originally posted by Jackson Maberry:

why have i never heard of Busoni?

You must be kidding... Ferruccio Busoni, an Italian who lived in Germany, is one of my favorite composers, and probably, the best pianist in history after Listz. I've heard some of his very few recordings (he died in 1924) and I could not believe my f*****g ears.

wow, feel the outrage! I don't think Busoni is all that well known. I've got a couple of recordings of his transcription of Bach's Chaconne in d (terrorriffic!), which I accidentally stumbled upon one day while looking for the original. Otherwise i'd probably never have heard of him either. His pupils on the other hand, Sibelius, Grainger, Weill..., we've all heard of them. (yes, I just did a quick search)

 

Interesting to discover, (upon further reading), that he was a visionary of electronic music, and championed the forerunner to our modern synthesizer (pardon me, I already forget what it was called).

[gangsu]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

To show how times have changed, now we have guys on the cover of Keyboard who can hold a keyboard though not play it extremely well and we have featured articles on groups whose keyboard player can't really play very well and who even admit they haven't studied theory.

I absolutely LOVE seeing covers and featured artists in Keyboard that I've never heard of. I tell ya, I walk into a record store now and I get respect. "I'm looking for The Craft by Blackalicious." "Cool. Follow me."

[yabbadabbadoo]

Originally posted by Cydonia:

The greatest pianists debate is a very subjective one. Some people prefer perfection of technique and pure sound, others prefer emotional and metaphysical playing, others prefer superhuman extreme performances, etc.

Indeed. I'd say technique wise there are folk around today that would probably match anyone from the past.

 

Although I didn't see Cziffra, Horowitz, or Hamelin. Up and coming? Ingolf Wunder perhaps [unless you like Lang Lang]. Oh and girls can do what some of can only hope to read about in a magazine too Martha Argerich gets my vote there.

[marino]

Originally posted by gangsu:

I don't think Busoni is all that well known.

Well, Busoni is quite well known in Europe - more than in the USA, I guess. I absolutely love most of his music. I do play a couple of his Sonatinas and other simpler stuff, but I would never dare to attempt the Fantasia Contrappuntistica... give me another lifetime and we could talk about it...

[hichakhok]

It's not that tough! I played the Fantasia quite a few times when I was a student, it always went down well with audiences, despite it's length. It's interesting to program against the Art of Fugue. For me Busoni was a good composer, but not in my opinion a 'great' one, certainly not in the league of Schoenberg Bartok Prokofiev or Ives. I find his writings generally more interesting and daring than his compositions. I agree about his recordings, although the Liszt Rhapsody sounds a little rushed, as if he was running out of recording time. I think my favourites are the Sonatina Seconda and the Tocatta, which IS a tough play. I would have loved to have heard his Mozart, i guess the closest we can get to that is to listen to egon Petri.

[gangsu]

Originally posted by marino:

Well, Busoni is quite well known in Europe - more than in the USA, I guess.

more than in Canada, for sure. He's nowhere to be found in any of the usual syllabi. Grrr...

 

quote:

---

I absolutely love most of his music. I do play a couple of his Sonatinas and other simpler stuff, but I would never dare to attempt the Fantasia Contrappuntistica... give me another lifetime and we could talk about it...

[C.J. Lewis]

Originally posted by marino:

I played a 290 in Buenos Aires many years ago, which was the closest thing to a perfect instrument I've ever played. It seemed to read my mind; it was unreal. I stayed in the theatre till late night, playing it for myself and the crew, till they had to close the doors and threw me out. Knowing that I would never be able to own it, I wanted to taste every possible moment!

I had a similar experience at a private studio here in Denver. I kept playing it long after I was done with the session takes. Finally, when they started turning off the lights in the house, I unwillingly left. I was a joyful occasion, though.

[Jackson Maberry]

Whoa, from great pianos to great pianists. Sorry about the whole Busoni thing, i live on a tiny island in the middle of the pacific and Busoni never reached me here. i wnet out of my way to find him though, and i like what i hear. About the whole "97 key" thing, i only mentioned those composers because on bosendorfer's website, when speaking of the 290, they say "These extra notes enable some compositions to be accurately performed, which were originally scored with lower notes, by composers such as Bartók, Debussy, Ravel and Busoni." for proof, http://www.boesendorfer.com/_english_version/index.html. Just check the products index for the "black models" and click on the 290. And as far as pianists go, i have always been a fan of Liszt's contemporary, Chopin. Please dont hurt me!

[Bridog6996]

Personally, I prefer Chopin to Liszt too in terms of composition. I've actually read accounts that suggest Chopin and Liszt were pretty equal technique-wise, and that Chopin consciously pursued an opposite direction than that of his contemporary, striving for more lyrical composition (which Liszt himself also started to do in his later years) instead of rockstar-like pianistic fireworks.

[hichakhok]

An interesting perspective. I do however find the first two books of Annees and the early Rhapsodies to be very lyrical. One of the most striking thing in late Liszt is his use of atonality.

[Bridog6996]

Well, maybe that's not the right description. The idea was that he wanted to be more "understated" by letting his compositions take precedent over his playing ability. That's how I understood it anyway.