Kurzweil PC88 vs. Roland 700sx sound difference.

[zoomer]

I have a Kurzweil pc88, and a Roland 700sx. For gigging, I always used the Kurzweil with a Roland KC500 and Roland KC100 linked together, and the sound was pretty good. I could adjust the 100 for clear highs, and the 15" speaker in the 500 gave a great bass.

When I put the Roland 700sx through the same amps, the sound is muddy, and nothing seems to improve it so it sounds as clean as the the Kurzweil. However, both keyboards sound great through the same headphones, in fact the Roland sounds better. What is the reason for this? I would like to use the Roland 700sx on gigs, but the sound is inferior.

I am thinking of upgrading to a PA system as so many recent threads have illustrated, as keyboard amps basically damage the sound. But, again, why the big difference in sound between these 2 keyboards?

ps: If this has been covered before, please do not chew me out, I don't live on this board, but really appreciate it. Thanks.

[burningbusch]

Hard to imagine the RD700SX sounding muddy as it is, relatively speaking, brighter and clearly than most hardware pianos. I have the RD700SX and have had Kurzweil pianos. To me there is no comparison. I prefer the clarity and response of the Roland plus the action of the RD700SX which is hard to beat. You have a lot of EQ options right in front of you on the panel. Don't be afraid to use them. Also, remember on the RD700SX you don't have just one acoustic piano sample set. There are at least three and possibly more. The Superior, Ultimate, RD Grand and GM (I believe) are all different piano multisamples.

 

I've yet to hear a keyboard amp that can compete with a full range speaker system, i.e. a PA speaker. I've been trying to find the Electro Voice SxA360 to demo but they're hard to come by.

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

One thing to remember with the RD700SX is that the output is extremely hot. Go into EDIT -> SYSTEM and set the level to ~80 (default is 120 I believe) to see if that improves your sound. YOu could be simply overdriving the inputs of the amps.

 

Busch.

[K K]

I remember people I worked with who had Roland amps and they often suffered from a quite marginal sound reproduction. Not clean. So yes, a solution could be to go for a better system.

 

Another problem that's very common is EQ misuse. Many, many people think that the best sound is when bass and treble are at high, if not maximum levels on their home sound system. Comparable terrible results happen when you increase any frequency range more than +3 dB on a good system, as it often lead to the opposite effect.

 

As an overly simplified example, +3 dB for both bass and treble ranges will do about the same as -3 dB for midrange : significant clarity loss for a piano "melodic" or "warm" register. Not to mention that too many positive EQ adjusts increase chances for distortion. Instead of that, always begin with negative EQ adjusts to test a given system. Following the same oversimplified example, -3 dB for midrange would give a similar result, with less chances for distortion.

[eric]

The only other explantion I can think of is that the original poster is so acclimated to the Kurzweil piano sound (darker, more "woody") that the brighter Roland sound may sound and feel foreign. The Kurz does have its own very distinct character and it may take some time to become accustomed with a newer sound.

 

Regards,

Eric

[ITGITC]

Hi Zoomer & welcome to The Keyboard Corner.

 

Nobody's going to chew you out here. In fact, somebody's more likely to buy you a beer and try to debate the merits of slicing a Motion Sound amp into two parts or why certain audio cables lose their flavor on the bedpost overnight.

 

Dooood, what you need is a new amp & speaker system. Piano sounds, whether they're from Kurzweil, Roland, Korg, Yamaha, it doesn't matter - they gotta be true and natural.

 

The fact that the two Roland amps sound good with one keyboard and not the other is simple: they're imparting a coloration to the piano sounds that just aren't natural.

 

The best keyboard speakers would be some great-sounding studio monitors that could take the punishment of live performance. Studio monitors sound great for most any kind of music. But they're not made for live PA-type work (or as keyboard amps).

 

Get a new amp/speaker combination.

 

I like my EAW FR 153. CLONK HERE.

 

Others like the Bose PAS system. CLONK FOR BOSE.

 

You might find the JBL EON 15 G2 CLONK FOR EON. or the Mackie SRM 450 CLONK FOR MACKIE. to your liking.

 

Whatever you choose, try to get a natural-sounding speaker that doesn't impart its own personality on all the sounds you drive it with. You might be able to get by with organ or synth sounds through a colored speaker, but when you are going for a convincing piano sound, it's imperative that you use a natural-sounding system.

 

Both keyboards sound great through your headphones. I guarantee you would also get great sound if you played either of them through a natural-sounding speaker.

 

Now. How 'bout that beer, huh?

 

Tom

[JimmyJimJim]

Yeah gas i think you've hit the nail. I think what i would consider the 'negative' characteristics of the Roland amps probably has a positive effect on the older Kurz sounds, souping them up a bit... if that makes sense! But like you say, the opposite would be true through a standard powered speaker.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I use a PC-88 MX and a KC-550 live, but I run it via MIDI through a Motif ES rack. I think that the Kurzweil has a fairly nice piano onboard - it's one of the only sounds I'd consider using compared to the ES sounds.

[David Loving]

I have a 15 year old crate kx160 amp. I have amps all over the place and wanted to resurrect it instead of buying something else. I just replaced the speakers and crossover - 15" eminence beta and a regular about 30 watt tweeter, crossover at about 3.5 hz. The amp is 160 watts at 4 ohm meaning its lots less at 8, which is what the speakers are. Lower power rated than the older crapped out spkrs they replaced. The speakers are driven harder than the old ones. You would not believe the difference in the sound; it's great! Organ bass down to low c, clear as a bell and loud. My Kurz pianos even sound fine through it. A pc88 piano sound is pretty good through anything. Point: the advice about the roland amps is probably correct, but new speakers can really make a difference, and they do not have to be in a new amplifier. I strongly recommend checking out the output as advised above, and fool with the board's eq, too.

[Jazz+]

My friend had a PC88 and KC500 and the combination sounded horrendous, the mid range was a disaster.

[Kurzfan]

i also used to have a PC88 that had top pianosound about 10 years ago but i now replaced it by S90ES (superior sound and action). Regarding amplification, i'm considering a Yamaha Stagepas 300 for my personal monitoring on stage.

[ELP71]

I used the PC88/Roland combo setup for a while as well. I felt the coloration was beneficial to the PC88 sample. When I tried to run a PC2R and later my S90 through the same amp - bam - muddy as the Mississip'. I think there are a couple factors at play here - the coloration of the amp having a 'positive' effect on an older sample (someone mentioned this), and possibly a wider stereo image on the newer samples. You said you were running two amps but didn't specify if you were running stereo - sounded more like a biamped situation.

 

I think an amp upgrade is in order to make the Roland shine. Many good suggestions so far here.

 

Kurzfan - I too am considering the StagePas for keyboard amplification/monitoring - pretty sexy little unit! My only concern is the 8' speakers - I'm so used to nothing less than a 10' (and in most cases - a 15') I worry that I won't get the 'oomph' I'm used to. Maybe that's NOT a bad thing...

[ELP71]

Egads - double post...