Power Is not Everything when it comes to amps A/B comparison SUMO 100 VS Roland KC

[NYKeys]

I needed to replace my crate kx220 as it is too muddy for my taste. So I went up to G. Center yesterday just to test out what they had.

 

Since My budget is kind of tight ($400) I needed Something that was clear, Had EQ's that were knobs (love the option of a graphic EQ, but a pain to set right)

 

G. Center had the RD300sx pluged into a KC-60 (40 watts). I Played a bit and it sounded really clear with the EQ Flat. Then Hooked up the Alesis Sumo 100 and did not like it at all. The sound quality was muddy with the same flat eq setting, The knobs felt real cheap.

 

Ok then came the volume test and this sealed the fate of the SUMO.

 

Even with the volume turned up all the way the Sumo could not hang with the 40 watt Roland set on 2 for the master and channel volume..

 

They had a SUMO 100(150 watts) and 300 (300 watts)

 

After hearing the 100 I didn't even try the 300.

 

I figured GC is a real good place to see if an amp will cut thorough a mix as most people have the volume all the way up on everything.

 

I settled on the KC150 (65 watts), ordered it yesterday online and it should arive in a couple of days.

 

Depending on how it does I might opt for the Sub woofer or just wait until I get enough change for a motion amp.

[ElGorilla]

does the KC150 have a voltage selector 120/230v?

[BluesKeys]

You might also look at adding a second KC150 or even larger KC model. I use a KC500 and KC300 in stereo and like it a lot. You can pick them up used cheap. Any where from $200 to $400 depending on which model.

 

You will get a power boost out of stereo plus the enhanced sound of your keys. If you have a B3 clone it makes the leslie effect come alive.

[Dave Horne]

I always take the so called advertised power output with a grain of salt. I don't think anyone advertises RMS output at a specified distortion level.

 

Are there laws that companies have to obey regarding their advertised power output? (I'm leaving out the efficiency rating of the speaker, so many decibels at one meter at various frequencies ... whatever.)

 

The final test is your ears and how it sounds on a job.

[ITGITC]

Dave,

 

The rule is that power should be stated as a given wattage into a given load from a low range to a high range within a given tolerance.

 

For example: 100 Watts RMS into 8 ohms from 60Hz - 15KHz, +/- 3dB.

 

However, you are so right - it's very subjective. And the final sound is what matters.

 

That sure seems simplistic, but that's why you shouldn't buy an amp like this without hearing it first. Those Roland amps can get really loud and they sound great on many keyboard programs.

 

I still like the idea of having a mixer & power amp with two separate speakers that I can place anywhere. But that's just me & we've talked about this over and over again.

 

Something can be said for having an all-in-one stereo keyboard amp. I just haven't found one that sounds good on acoustic piano programs.

 

But, again, that could just be me. I'm certainly not trying to offend those who disagree with me... although you're wrong.

 

Hi Jim. Luv ya... mean it.

[David Loving]

I have used the sumos a lot. I agree with C Bull in that the sumos are 'volume challenged' which leads me to believe the watts stated are optimistic, shall we say. I have been able to eq the sumo 300 so that it is useable, but I still prefer my old crate kx160 with its 15" speaker and plenty of control- eq'd way bass heavy with a pro3t on top into one input, piano in another, left channel; and a ms kbr-m on the right channel. The kbr-m is pretty loud. Right now I have a Kurz sp88x hooked up in stereo to 2 sumo300 amps in my bicycle shop/weight room/music studio. I practice between sets. They have been retired and do just fine there. I think my loudest amp pound for pound is my little crate kx15.

[NYKeys]

I think the SUMO would be cool in a home environment but IMHO don't think this would work at all in a band environment with a Organ, Bass and Drums It's just too muddy for my taste and I don't want to have a volume war just to hear a muddy line.

 

 

Here is a link to Ken Hughes Review

 

http://www.keyboardmag.com/story.asp?sectioncode=30&storycode=9532

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by C Bull:

Ok then came the volume test and this sealed the fate of the SUMO.

 

That matches what I discovered with the SUMO 300 at a concert I was teching at. Couldn't get any volume out of it. Not a matter of power so much as gain, I think. I wasn't sure at the time if the problem was the amp or what I was driving it from. I certainly wasn't getting even 300 bogo-watts out of it - maybe 10W RMS assuming the speaker is around 98db sensitivity. Even if the speaker is inefficient that's at most around 150 bogowatts.

 

I actually like the sound of the SUMOs for piano. They don't have that down-a-well sound that you get from the Roland amps. But I have only tried them at low level. At low levels you are not going to hear any problems caused by cone break-up.

 

Personally, the biggest drawback of the SUMO was their weight. The only reason for using something other than my SRM450s would be weight saving (unless I went to a Leslie of course - but that's different). That's why I didn't bother to take one into a room and (attempt to) try it at volume. I liked the builtin wheels and handle but they really didn't seem sturdy or large enough to stand up to general use.

[David Loving]

That's right. The Sumo 300, even the 100, works fine at the barn at home. I like the sound I can get out of them. They make the old sp88x sound good. I found that they don't have the horsepower I need on gigs. I had read the keyboard review before I bought them. Funny, but I do not see a direct statement about the lack of volume. Did the reviewer use the amps in a band setting - say combo? He dances around, to-wit the peavey comparison, but I found them short on volume, too. They are sturdy, and when turned up to about 8.75 to 9.25 on main volume will produce enough bass for the <800hz tones sent to it by the pro3t. That's having to turn a 300wt amp up too much imho.

[K K]

Originally posted by Byrdman:

Personally, the biggest drawback of the SUMO was their weight.

Yep, the minimum needed is 200 lbs to be classed as a SUMO.

 

http://www.columbia.edu/~xs23/ake/SUMO-AKEBONO-25.jpg

[Byrdman]

Just a thought - did you make sure your effects send was all the way down. Really you only want to use the inbuilt effects for vocals.

[David Loving]

I just turn the effects off, and send to zero.

[NYKeys]

Originally posted by Byrdman:

Just a thought - did you make sure your effects send was all the way down. Really you only want to use the inbuilt effects for vocals.

I made sure the effects were off as I heard those effect the tone.

 

After reading Ken's Review I had to laugh at this line

 

I somewhat violently knocked over the Sumo 100 with three inputs all connected up. It landed flat on its back, with the protruding cable connectors and therefore the jacks taking the full weight of the fall.

 

Was that an Accident???

[ITGITC]

http://membre.megaquebec.net/skriabin/0.gif

 

martin newton, good work on beethoven, sonata, opus 31-2, 3rd movement.

[K K]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car? ...good work on beethoven...

Well, glad you like this rendering. I was so depressed that day, I thought I would play it and record it. Just the way Beethoven felt then.

[NYKeys]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

http://membre.megaquebec.net/skriabin/0.gif

 

martin newton, good work on beethoven, sonata, opus 31-2, 3rd movement.

+1

[David Loving]

Quite nice - I really like the Chopin.

[K K]

Thanks guys, didn't want to highjack your thread, except for the SUMO guy. If I ever do an album, I'll make sure to put a sumo wrestler on the cover, I think it will sell better.