I fell in love today...

[daBowsa]

Hi, my name is Ben...and I'm a gear-a-holic.

 

I'm selling and rebuilding my rig from scratch. Ok, I'm keeping my invisible stand, DP6, FC7 and KP200S - but that's it!

 

So the plan was this - Electro 73, Micron and MicroPiano via my A-33. I bought the MicroPiano but now I want to sell it. Just not enough usable sounds, so I was thinking bite the bullet and get an ME-1. But then if I'm spending $400, sell the A-33 and buy a stand-alone bottom board. No module, no hastle, right?

 

So I've been looking out for a used RD-600. Today I ran errands on lunch and my travels took me near Guitar Center. Well, they had an RD-300SX. I was instantly taken to this fine instrument. Still at $1400, out of my price range.

 

Long story short, I look up and the keyboard room has emptied. I'm alone, and I sit down at an S90. At $2000, also out of my price range, but it gets a lot of good press around here. I've played it a time or two before, but never in a quiet setting such as this.

 

Next thing I know, an hour has gone by and the room is again full of people. Time warp. I somehow stopped evaluating this board, and just played it. When I came to, I realized I was pulling off licks I've never played before. I'm comping in keys I've never felt compfortable in. I can't explain it - I looked down at my hands and thought "This is the most comfortable synth I've ever played." I totally enjoyed tweaking the realtime sliders - adding a little phasing to the clavs or dialing in the grit to the wurlie. Quite simply, it was just fun.

 

Like I said, I fell in love. The problem is, its overkill and its too expensive. I'm only in it for the pianos, eps and clavs - maybe a string or marimba here and there. I thought the Micron could pull these last two off when I needed it. Plus the Electro nails the eps and clavs, but I'd like to have them on the bottom since the Electro isn't multi-timbral and I anticipate leaving the Electro as an organ in live situations.

 

Aaaaggghhhh! If only I had lots of money! I mean, if only the wife would let me spend my tax return on myself!

 

So my question is, will a used S80 give me what I got from the S90 today? I've seen them go for $800 which I could swing if I hold off on the Micron for a little while...

 

Used S80, RD-600 or PC1X. Help! What about S90 + VK8M? I can't pass on the Electro, right?

 

Sincerely,

G.A.S.'ing in Providence.

[NoLights]

A used S80 will get you a similar-feeling keyboard and some very nice EP's. But alas, not the triple-strike piano sample that's in the S90. But... you can add Yamaha's new piano PLG card (when you've paid down your Visa card a little), which has a triple-strike sample -- a different, and somewhat mellower sample -- than the S-90's. Depending on what you need, it might do it. Check out sninety.com for reviews, pro and con, of the PLG card. The old S-80 Yamaha dedicated website has been taken down, but check out synthzone.com for S-80 resources, and Harmony Central's gear reviews.

 

You can tell spring is in the air....

[eric]

Ben, welcome to gear lust! I suggest that you hesitate no further and spring for the S90 and Electro rig. You can find a better price than $2k on the S90. I learned awhile ago that if you "settle" on what seems to be ok, you will ultimately wish you had invested in what you really wanted. In the end, you would likely try to find a way to get the full rig, so you may want to save yourself the time.

 

Regards,

Eric

[88keys4me]

Ben, I bought my S90 brand new (NOT B-stock), in factory sealed carton from a local authorized Yama dealer for less than $1,600. You can do likewise through online stores, or if you have a local authorized dealer, ask him to match this price. Since it's legitimate, and there's still some profit margin in the sale, he should be willing to do it if he wants your business.

[daBowsa]

Eric, I was expecting you'd chime in with some "buy the farm" advice! It was because of you that I was looking to pick up a used RD-600 instead of pining after the 700 or 700SX. This is where the 300SX interest came into play.

 

I totally agree that "settling for less" eats away at your soul. Especially when you over-research; sometimes I'm so envious of my bandmates that just make random impulse gear buys - even I know there's a better fit for them, and I don't even play bass! But they're so happy and content, I don't have the heart to break it to them.

 

I digress...what about dropping down to an Electro 61 instead of the 73?

 

Again with the settling...

[MikeT156]

Dabrowsa:

 

What Eric said. 1999.00 is MAP pricing on the S90, it can be had for less. If you feel you need local service, and a loaner if yours breaks, dealing locally is worth paying a little more.

 

quote:

-----------------------------------------

Aaaaggghhhh! If only I had lots of money! I mean, if only the wife would let me spend my tax return on myself!

-----------------------------------------

If all else fails, "get rid of the wife". Its cheaper in the long run, unless you own a house. But then, "some sacrifices have to be made". That my friend, is GAS logic.

 

 

Mike T.

[burningbusch]

I've long felt that the most important consideration in buying a keyboard, especially for playing live, is not how good it sounds but rather how good it makes you sound. If you connect with it, that's key. Would you rather have people walk out of the club saying "my that's the best sounding rhodes emulation I've ever heard" or "man that SOB can play."

 

Busch.

[eric]

Originally posted by dabowsa:

Eric, I was expecting you'd chime in with some "buy the farm" advice! It was because of you that I was looking to pick up a used RD-600 instead of pining after the 700 or 700SX. This is where the 300SX interest came into play.

 

I totally agree that "settling for less" eats away at your soul. Especially when you over-research; sometimes I'm so envious of my bandmates that just make random impulse gear buys - even I know there's a better fit for them, and I don't even play bass! But they're so happy and content, I don't have the heart to break it to them.

 

I digress...what about dropping down to an Electro 61 instead of the 73?

 

Again with the settling...

Ben, I loved my RD600 for years and would not mind if it was still in my rig. It is a solid instrument that is very warm sounding and fun to play. One of the main reasons I upgraded to an S90 was to get the added synth versatility that the S90 has (Motif sound engine, PLG expansion), plus the more robust MIDI control capability. I was basically looking to phase out the 3rd VA keyboard in my rig by getting an S90. Well, I found that even after doing this, I still have desire to have a VA of some sort, so I could honestly still be making it on the RD600.

 

With that said, the S90 has really blown me away and I would not voluntarily go back at this point.

 

As for the Electro, I do not think that getting the 61 vs. the 73 is "settling." I actually have owned both and prefer the 61 for numerous reasons :

- I spent most of my time in the lower half of the 73 and did not need the higher octave

- octave shift for the EPs gives a wider range of notes available

- 61 keys is more faithful to a Hammond, which is my main use for it

- it is smaller and lighter

- it is less expensive

 

Overall, I am very, very pleased with the S90/Electro partnership in my rig. What's funny is that I don't get enough time at home to actually set them up and play with them much. So if I have a couple of weeks with no gigs, I sort of forget how cool these keyboards are and I start lusting for something new. Then I go back and play them and realize that I have everything I need and then some. I still have not fully tapped the potential of these instruments.

 

Regards,

Eric

[JeffLearman]

If you can stretch to $1600, first offer that to the place where you played it. We need to keep these stores in business. Most likely, they'll take the deal, or at least counter offer with just a bit more. Find what it would cost on line, with shipping. I'm always willing to pay a bit more than that to buy locally, not just to keep the store going, but also because you'll have much better recourse if a problem comes up.

 

With a good lower board like that, an Electro 61 would be fine. But again, if you pay the 25% more to get the 73, there will be gigs or jams where you can just bring the Electro 73 but the 61 wouldn't cut the mustard. Also, I bet resale value for 73 will be much higher than for 61. If you're like me and keep gear until it rots, that won't matter much!

[mike g]

Man, I got'a go out and play me a S90...It was inspiring to read your story.

[Dave Bryce]

You guys may have noticed that some of the posts in this thread have been edited...

 

I prefer that people not put specific stores and sales guys names in threads, as I feel this encourages sales guys to post here to try and solicit business, which I don't think any of us want.

 

If you guys want to exchange PMs and refer business to your dealer/salesperson of choice, please go right ahead, but I'd be most grateful if you could keep it off the forum.

 

Thanks!

 

dB

[Roland Genske]

Ben, what you describe is very similar to what happened when I "by occasion" sat down on the S80 for the first time. I was looking for a MIDI controller (88key Fatar or something similar), then the store guy said "try this one" and I sat down. I chose the first Rhodes patch I could find and jammed. As you said, it felt very comfortable. Half an hour later I stuffed the S80 into my car. This was in 1999, and I never regretted this purchase.

 

The S90 is far superior to the S80, I know, but I currently can't afford it. Should you decide to get the S90, you'll certainly be very happy with it.

 

Oh, and around 80% of the time I play the S80 it is a Rhodes patch I use

[daBowsa]

Thanks for the feedback guys - and dB, thanks for keeping this thread "forum safe."

 

I've been able to find better deals on the 73, but not much movement on the 61 - weird. For how close these two "best prices" are, the 73 seems like the way to go. I agree, learjeff, that the 73 would be a better 1-board solution than the 61.

 

For you guys that have the S90/Electro combo - do you just leave your Electro on organ the whole night? I could see playing EP on the S90 and pulling off some clav lines on the Electro, but that's about it. Seems like such a shame to have two great EP boards in the same rig.

 

Do you ever use the Electro to control the S90 for leads or pads? I can see why you want the 3rd board Eric - that's why the Micron was so tempting.

 

This is why I sort of hinted at a VK8M instead of an Electro. Maybe put my A-33 on top of the S90, MIDI it to VK8M and the S90 so I could play organ primarily but also control S90 leads, pads, strings, etc.

 

I can't believe in the course of 24 hours I've gone from "I'm definitely getting an Electro no matter what." to "Maybe a VK8M is all I really need to complement my S90!"

 

Wow. I'm starting to get really excited!

[Reverend Rhythm]

My two cents would be to get what you want... and wait until you can afford it. I wanted a P-250, but by the time I had the money the RD-700 was out, and it fit me better. I've been very happy with it.

 

I've also gone the credit route, but it's always left a bad taste in my mouth. I have a black face ADAT that was worth 1/2 of what I paid for it by the time it was paid off.

[mate stubb]

Originally posted by dabowsa:

For you guys that have the S90/Electro combo - do you just leave your Electro on organ the whole night?

Nope. The clav and the wurli on the Electro kill what you can get on the S-90.

So, S-90 for piano, rhodes, occasional clav & wurli (while Electro is doing organ), and synth; Electro for main organ, wurli, clav (thru leslie is da bomb), different Rhodes, and CP-70.

 

It's a great rig.

[daBowsa]

So what's the S90 doing while your playing Electro EP & clav? Piano or synth, I guess.

 

Do you ever switch em' around? Play Electro's Wurli on the S90 and play S90's leads on the Electro? (through Master Mode MIDI configuring)

 

Anyone have any of the add-on voice banks? The Vintage Keyboards seems strong. I'd like to beef up the pads a little too. There are some free banks out there that I'd like to check out also. Anything to report on this front?

[mate stubb]

Originally posted by dabowsa:

Do you ever switch em' around? Play Electro's Wurli on the S90 and play S90's leads on the Electro? (through Master Mode MIDI configuring)

I'll play Electro Rhodes and Wurli from the S-90, but I don't drive the S-90 from the Electro.

[eric]

As I hinted above, I am quite addicted to my S90/Electro rig. I do run MIDI out of the S90 to control the Electro, but not vice versa. I play all the synth sounds from the S90 keyboard. The Electro is not quite as savvy when it comes to MIDI controller functions and I prefer to keep it simple. I am quite content playing synth sounds from the S90 keyboard.

 

Ben, you mentioned a rig with the S90 + a controller + the VK8m. I recommend that you NOT do this. That is a darn complicated rig and having the Electro will solve for much more than a controller with a VK8m. Remember that you may sometimes just carry the Electro w/o the S90 and it gives you all the killer organ, clav, Rhodes, Wurly and CP80 you could ever want (plus a passable piano sound). To deal with controller keyboards and organ modules is a lot of gear fussing, in my opinion.

 

As for the question about "what does the S90 do when I'm playing Electro..." I use my Electro for organ, Rhodes, clav and Wurly. During those songs, there may be need for a synth sweep, strings, analog brass pad, whatever. I have the S90 set up to take these duties while I vibe on the Electro. I used to keep the Electro "set on organ" almost all night, but have found myself using it more and more as the "go to" player for Rhodes and clav sounds. I really dig it.

 

As for additional soundsets for the S90, I have them. First, you can buy 3rd party patches in the mart over at www.sninety.com from the good folks at DCP Productions or KeyFax. I own several of these libraries and they definitely raised the bar on my S90's sounds. There is one sound that perfectly emulates the sounds on Pink Floyd's "On the Run" from Dark Side of the Moon. I do not play this song, but the sound is SO DARN FUN that it is hard not to bust it out in between songs or in the middle of a solo or whatever.

 

Also, you can get the PLG expansion boards for the S90. I currenly have 2 of the PLG-AN cards and the PLG-AP piano board. These take the S90 a notch higher and I really like them. I had the PLG-DX for awhile, but was not really using it, so I sold it.

 

Hope this helps! I am sweating right now with the urge to unpack my S90 out of its case and play it!!!

 

Regards,

Eric

[daBowsa]

Yeah, I agree - the VK8M idea is more complex, I sold my softsynth gear to make things less complex.

 

I'm just trying to go through all the options before I take the plunge. Thanks for entertaining them, and for shooting down every one that's not S90/Electro.

 

I think I've settled on getting the Vintage Keys and one other lead/pad soundset from DCP, instead of getting a Micron. Again, keep it simple. I'll revisit the Micron once I'm actually in possesion of these two boards.

 

I also think I can swing this by selling everything except my KP200S. I'm going to sell my PA stuff and keep the KP.

[daBowsa]

Brought home an S90 and a Micron from Guitar Center yesterday!

 

Special ordered the Electro too.

 

In the end, after paying tax, I ended up paying $100 more than my best internet quotes. I felt this was a small price to pay for having a local dealer if any potential issues arise.

 

Ok, I'll talk to you guys next month!

[MikeT156]

dabowsa:

 

Smart move. You KNOW the S90 is what you wanted. Settling for less means you end up buying TWICE, that's a lot more expensive.

 

Congrats, we'll be waiting for your feedback on your new RIG.

 

 

Mike T.

[eric]

Originally posted by dabowsa:

Brought home an S90 and a Micron from Guitar Center yesterday!

 

Special ordered the Electro too.

Congratulations ! ! ! !

 

You will be VERY happy with this rig! I continue to be blown away by the power of the S90 and the Electro. The Micron is icing on the cake and you may find that the S90 can do what you would be asking of the Micron, especially if you add PLG-AN boards to the S90. I have been back and forth on taking a 3rd virtual or real analog keyboard on gigs and have more or less settled on using my S90 with 2 PLG-ANs to handle this function and keep my gear fuss to a minimum.

 

Again, congratulations and let us know how you like it! You should also join the Forum over at www.sninety.com to ask more detailed S90 questions. Also, check out the sounds in the S-Mart, particularly the DCP soundsets.

 

Regards,

Eric

[Botch.]

Ben, I'm making outrageous payments on a Saab 9-3 Convertible, and you and I just learned the same lesson:

Don't test drive NUTHIN that you can't afford!!!

 

 

Seriously, lots of good advice above, I holding off until the Alesis Fusion is out, I'd sure like to replace my Kurzweil PC-88, Yammie EX-5, AND Nord Lead with it, and combine it with my Nord Electro similar to your situation. Good luck on your final path.

 

And dabowsa, sounds like you got a nice setup too!

[daBowsa]

Well, I'm happy to say I paid for the S90 and Micron outright by selling most of my previous rig. I just need to sell my PA by the time the Electro comes in.

 

I built the "Mojo S700" tweak from the snintey/motifator forums and will probably get the Vintage Keys DCP sound bank. There are some free user bank downloads there too that I'd like to give a listen to. Another site I've come across is MoBros.org S90 Voices download page . I'll probably try out MoTown 100 when I get things hooked up with my PC.

 

As far as the Micron is concerned, I sort of see it as a stay-at-home/filler/just-for-fun piece. I don't really think I'll be taking 3 boards to any gigs, anytime soon. But if I'm in an Electro-only situation, adding the Micron to the rig wouldn't be too hard.

 

I'm glad I didn't sell my KP200S - 4 stereo inputs on that bad boy. For shows where there's a full PA, I might consider just bringing a Rolls MX28 Mini-Mix VI . Anyone have any thoughts on this guy or Rolls' stuff in general?

 

Listen everyone - thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

 

I'm forever trying to find the cheapest way to a passable solution. My whole life I've been jury-rigging amps and speakers and building my own rack cases, keyboard stands, etc. You guys convinced me not to settle on this one - I was patient, sold a crap load of stuff I hadn't touched in years, and I finally have some top-notch gear.

 

Its time to stop fussing around (laptop, softsynths, controllers, preamps, cables, cables, cables - all a thing of the past), get back to basics, plug in and just PLAY!

[daBowsa]

I returned the Micron today...

 

The S90 easily covers everything I need for bass and lead patches, plus its got way more real time controls.

 

By default, most of the patches on the Mircon have 2 of the 3 knobs assigned to FM amount and Noise amount, neither of which I ever use. Seriously, 90% of the patches are like this - I know you can customize everything, but that time I'd rather spend tweaking my S90. I just found 10 or 15 patches on the Mircon that had the controllers assigned to cool filter, resonance or pan effects and played those.

 

However, on the S90, using the 4 sliders and a Select button, you get Pan, Reverb, Chorus, Tempo, Cutoff, Resonance, Attack, Release, EQ Low, Mid-Low, Mid-High, and High by default on every patch. Then, on top of that you have the Mod Wheel, another Select button press giving the 4 sliders another bank, plus aftertouch - all of which are assignable to any voice or effect parameter. As you bank through the parameters with the Select button, the large LCD displays the name of the parameter above each slider, and shows the position and value of the slider.

 

But even more suprising, was how Yamaha made better choices on which parameters are tweakable in the default presets, as compared to Alesis. The S90 presets are just more fun to play - you can morph the presets with the controllers. On the Micron, using the knobs ruins the sound most of the time. I fully admit that the Micron was my first dedicated VA, so I may not know what I'm talking about.

 

With that said, I don't need 3 boards, but if I did I might consider the Ion. The Micron is fun, but I feel like it needs some serious tweaking to get it "performance ready" - with the Ion, all that stuff is available from the get-go. Most likely I'd get a JP8000 or Nord Lead 2...but I'm not going to, I promise.

 

I'm loving the S90, I can't keep my hands off it. I might have to take some time off of work (and send the pregnant wife and year and a half old daughter to grandmas) when the Electro shows up next week...

[Chris M]

Congratualtions on your new Rig! What is your take on the S90's S700 Triple Strike Acoustic Piano?

 

Chris

[eric]

Ben,

 

Congrats on the rig and glad you a loving the S90 enough to not really need the Micron. That was a decision point I went through as well. Enjoy it!

 

Originally posted by Blues+:

Congratualtions on your new Rig! What is your take on the S90's S700 Triple Strike Acoustic Piano?

Chris, your identity is morphing quite a bit over the past few days! You had been p120dUdE and then Chris Martin and then P120Dude and now Blues+. What's up???

 

Regards,

Eric

[Chris M]

Originally posted by eric:

Ben,

 

Congrats on the rig and glad you a loving the S90 enough to not really need the Micron. That was a decision point I went through as well. Enjoy it!

 

Originally posted by Blues+:

Congratualtions on your new Rig! What is your take on the S90's S700 Triple Strike Acoustic Piano?

Chris, your identity is morphing quite a bit over the past few days! You had been p120dUdE and then Chris Martin and then P120Dude and now Blues+. What's up???

 

Regards,

Eric

Hey Eric. Yea, I have been changing my name a lot. I have decided to stay with Blues+. I was going through a list of different possibilites, but Blues+ is the one that I am going to use.

 

Chris

[ELP71]

Great thread, guys...especially for us S90 owners!

 

dabowsa - how does the S90 sound through the Motion Sound? I have considered that amp for a long time.

 

Also - have you ever thought about a (relatively) cheap 49-or-so note controller, triggereing the S90, to work as a "synth action" answer for your synth needs???

[daBowsa]

Originally posted by Blues+:

What is your take on the S90's S700 Triple Strike Acoustic Piano?

I love it. I'm not a huge piano conosuer, and I'm not in a critical listening environment (the living room through 2.1 computer speakers or cheap headphones - I just ordered a pair of Sony 7506 headphones based on their flat response and extended listening comfort), but the only pianos I play on the S90 are variations or tweaks of the S700. When I play other pianos on the board (PowerGrand, SoftTouch, JazzGrand) they seem to a little flat compared to the triple strike. For example, with SoftTouch you really feel like you're only playing the soft layer of the S700, and you miss being able to open things up when you play louder. If want the sound of SoftTouch, I just pay the triple strike softly - as you'd expect a real piano to react.

 

Now this is solo piano - some of the non-triple patches are different, unique and cool and will have their uses sitting in a mix somewhere, but for exposed playing the S700 is very satisfying.

 

My favorite tweak is "Mojo S700" from snintey.com, a little less reverb and a little less highs on the hard strike layer. This blends everything together quite nicely. There are a few other variations out there I'd like to try, but I have to get the S90 close to my computer to use the USB hook up.

 

I've never owned a triple strike before, so I'm not sure if I'm loving that, or this particular triple strike sample, but I think its great - warm, dynamic, expressive. It makes me want to play piano again! Previous to the S90, I'd sit down and run the gambit on organs, eps, clavs and synths of my boards. Now I sit down and just play piano!

 

Originally posted by eric:

Congrats on the rig and glad you a loving the S90 enough to not really need the Micron. That was a decision point I went through as well.

Didn't the control knob getting lost/stolen and Alesis not being able replace it also have something to do with that decision?

 

Originally posted by ELP71:

dabowsa - how does the S90 sound through the Motion Sound? I have considered that amp for a long time.

Like I said, my S90 never made it past the living room - I opened the box and there she stayed! I'll probably move it upstairs for a while when my Electro comes in - then I'll hook everything up to the KP200S and my computer, and not leave the house for week.

 

I did put the MS through its paces with the Micron, however, and I was quite impressed - detailed highs and big lows. The crossover works well, as a few of the Microns bass patches had sub-tones that dropped below the KP200S' frequency response - instead of breaking up or overworking the woofers, you can hear a distinct cutoff. I was put off by this at first, thinking they're just trying to get me to buy their subwoofer...but then I realized that at stage volumes, you don't want to be pushing frequencies through a woofer that it can't handle.

 

Originally posted by ELP71:

Also - have you ever thought about a (relatively) cheap 49-or-so note controller, triggereing the S90, to work as a "synth action" answer for your synth needs???

Yeah, I did - the Mircon! No, seriously - I paid $350 for it, its got a great feel and some cool realtime controllers. I guess some of the MAudio stuff is pretty cheap, but for a few extra bucks, you get awesome sounds and a self-sufficient unit. I'm through buying controllers that have no sounds - its plug and play for me!

 

Man, I lose time playing the S90...and writing about it!