XK-3

[Nimmy]

A question to all of you who bought an XK-3 Organ:

Ist is the real deal or is there too much hype about it?

I`ve been looking for "that sound" for more than twenty years now and spend so much money one clones that I could easily have purchased a real Hammond by now. Can the XK-3 replace a B3, C3 or A100 in terms of sound?

Opinions much appreciated!

[keynote]

Originally posted by Nimmy:

A question to all of you who bought an XK-3 Organ:

Ist is the real deal or is there too much hype about it?

Can the XK-3 replace a B3, C3 or A100 in terms of sound?

Opinions much appreciated!

I have played the Hammond XK-3 and personally I think it comes very close to reproducing the real B3 sound. And it saves you the hassle of lugging 400+ pounds around.

 

Nothing can exactly emulate the real deal, at least in todays world, but the XK-3 gives the B3, C3, A100, etc., a real run for their money.

 

If you have a chance to play an XK-3 you may find you come to the same conclusion yourself.

 

That is my advice, i.e. try and find an XK-3 to play firsthand. That will give you more understanding and a better (ultimate) evaluation than any words I or others could say to convince you one way or the other.

[David Loving]

I have one. It's stopped me from searching for that sound. The urge to buy more clonage, or a big b3, etc, has vanished. It is the real deal. If you want to stop jonesin' on clones, just go out and get one. That's what I did, and it worked. It's great to play on gigs, in the "barn studio" at home. Test drive not really necessary! You can test drive it while you're using it!!

[Tedly Nightshade]

With a real Leslie, these clones can be pretty cool. Might not sound just like the A100, which doesn't sound just like the B3, or the M3, but it can sound it's own really cool way.

[MikeT156]

The only real critisicm I've read about the XK-3 is the Leslie SIM. Most folks say it should be connected to a Leslie and be done with it. Yet the Korg and Electro Leslie SIM's get high marks for their SIM's. I realize that there's no substitute for a rotating speaker moving air, but is the XK-3 Leslie SIM usable or does Hammond need to upgrade it? XK-3 owners, what say you?

 

Mike T.

[JMcS]

This is how I have my XK-3 set up:

I replaced the Ei (Yugoslavia) tubes with NOS GE 12AX7 USA 2 Mica Spacer 60's era tubes. These tubes seem to "sing" before they distort. So from 0 to about 4.5, the tone gets richer ( I don't know how else to describe it). From 4.5 to about 7.5 the tubes start to sing. For example, hold down the highest C, add E flat and you can hear additional harmonics, add the F and the tubes just start to sing, the closest thing I can relate it to is a subtle ring modulator. Turn it up from there and you add the overdrive scream. Also, with the original tubes and with other preamps I have tried (Blue Tube II two channel rack unit and Blue Tube pedals) there seems to be a drop off in low and mid frequencies as the overdrive increases. With these, there is no drop off.

 

In the effects loop I have a Soldano space box spring reverb with 5751 tubes. I replaced the original Sovtek 12AX7LPS tubes with these because the Sovteks seemed to overdrive no matter what. The 5751 tubes reduce the gain somewhat, but I get a nice smooth reverb without the buzz. According to the people at Soldano, they use those tubes to really "hit" the springs. Although it is supposed to be designed for both guitar and line level inputs, I think the line level is too hot for the 12AX7LPS's and they overdrive.

 

Also, as overdrive increases, it causes the reverb springs to vibrate more.

 

To get to the point, I run all of this into a Leslie 21 System and the digital Leslie into a Crate KX80 keyboard amp and from there into an old Ampeg Jet 12 with an additional external speaker. The Leslie 21 System does a better job of reproducing the bass than the other amplifiers. When I play the digital Leslie through the lower unit of the Leslie with the upper unit disconnected from the lower unit and the volume on the upper unit turned off, there is virtually no difference in the sound (the mid range frequencies may be slightly louder). The display on a spectrum analyzer is pretty much identical. From what I have been able to determine, the difference in sound between the digital and real leslies ( I'm not getting into the pissing match regarding the Leslie 21 vs the 122 / 147) is caused by the amp that the digital Leslie is played through and not in the Leslie simulation itself. Now, can someone who cares tell the difference from within 10 feet and with open eyes? Yes. Could they tell if they couldn't see what was producing the sound? I don't know. Probably not 100% of the time. Could you tell in a bar or concert setting? I doubt it.

 

I think that if the XK-3 is going to be played through a large PA system, the mixing board probably has a spectrum analyzer in it. The keyboard player could set up the XK-3 to their liking / usual setup and work with the sound guy to get the PA right and then copy the spectrum analyzer display for reference. Once the PA is equilized to your liking, tell the sound guy to leave it alone, that thats what the drawbars are for.

 

Edited for Punctuation.

[MikeT156]

That's sounds like a nice setup. I bet it sounds great. So you think that the Hammond Leslie SIM is realistic enough if its played through an amp without a Leslie? Not everyone plays in a large venue or will run it through a separate PA. I'm just curious if it sounded cheezy or is noticably not as good as the Korg or Nord Electro.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike T.

[JMcS]

I have never heard an Electro. The only Korg I've played was in a music store through some little monitor speakers, and to me the bass sounded like hitting a hanging carpet with a bat. Must have been the speakers.

 

This is just my opinion, but if I were buying amplification (starting with none) for my XK-3 this is how I would do it as my needs / wallet grew.

 

1st: Leslie 2121 (Lower Unit) play w/ Digital Leslie.

 

Need more Volume:

2nd: Add 2nd Lower Unit - connect to Right 1/4" out or line out of 1st Lower Unit for Mono. Continue with digital Leslie.

 

3rd: Add Leslie 2101 Upper unit, connect it to one Lower Unit, play digital Leslie through the other.

 

4th: Add 2nd Upper unit. Connect through optional Y Leslie Cable.

 

5th: Add 3rd Lower Unit. Connect to 1/4" output.

 

And so on.

 

Need / Want Moving Air:

2nd: Add 2101 Upper Unit. Connect to Lower unit. Play through Leslie Cable.

 

3rd: Add 2nd Lower Unit. Connect to 1/4" output.

 

4th: Add 2nd Upper unit. Connect through optional Y Leslie Cable.

 

5th Add 3rd Lower unit. Connect to 1/4" output.

 

And so on.

 

Edited to copy text.

[mate stubb]

Originally posted by Nimmy:

A question to all of you who bought an XK-3 Organ:

Ist is the real deal or is there too much hype about it?

I`ve been looking for "that sound" for more than twenty years now and spend so much money one clones that I could easily have purchased a real Hammond by now. Can the XK-3 replace a B3, C3 or A100 in terms of sound?

Opinions much appreciated!

There are entire mailing lists devoted to the pursuit of the holy grail Hammond sound. You'll never get a consensus of opinion about Leslie sims, etc. Try some rigs out for yourself! How do they sound to YOU?

[MikeT156]

There isn't anyone remotely close by that have The XK-3. I've heard media clips, and although they have to be compressed in order to get any volume out of the clips, its sounds impressive. The Nord Electro and the Korg CX-3 sound very good too. I read all the XK-3 thread about all the features and well thought out OS on the XK-3, and the only negative were comments on the Leslie SIMM. I've just been trying to get more feedback on the Leslie SIMM than what I've read. I know you can never get a consensus, wouldn't dream of it.

 

Mike T.

[David Loving]

I haven't used my leslie simm much, but I have no complaints. If you do not like the stock simm there's all kinds of ways in the internal menu to customize it. I like the simm just fine. I run the xk3 through a motion sound 3t and low pro stack, or through a ms kbr-3 when I have less room. I just like it throwing air around all over the place. HOWEVER, maybe I am not as discriminating as others on the board, but I'd use my digital leslie in a heartbeat if my motion sound stack crapped out on me. Remember when you're playing live you are not A-B-ing boards. My xk3 is always the only clone in operation! I find nothing wrong at all with the leslie simm on the xk3

[MikeT156]

Thanks Dave, appreciate your comments. I was curious how flexible the Leslie SIMM OS was in the Hammond. I thought that maybe an OS upgrade would handle it, but it seems like Hammond thought of that already, as it seems they thought of everything in all the other departments on the XK-3. I think that's the thing that impresses me the most about the Hammond. It's like if some player somewhere thought something would be a good idea, its already "in there", yeah know, like Prego spaghetti sauce. The thing about a leslie simm is that its never going to sound as good as a real Leslie physically moving air to produce that rich vibrato, but I had a Korg CX-3 years ago (the first model) and I thought it did a fair job of emulating a Leslie. If I ever got a B3 clone, I just don't room for a Leslie in my music room, period. I think the only real advantage the Korg CX-3 has at this point is low price. I've seen some go for under $1000.00 on Ebay in MINT condition. Can't beat that. Occasionally AMS has a "B" stock for $1439.00. However, I was talking to a Hammond dealer that is willing to "deal" on a new one. The only thing I have to deal with is justifying one for how much I would make use of it. I've been checking out some of the clones for a buddy of mine that's going to buy one, and have been getting the itch myself. He's probably going to get the Korg because of the price, so I might get a chance to try one soon. Also have to find a damn job before I can pay for GAS again.

 

Thanks again Dave,

 

Mike T.

[David Loving]

..and remember, no two 'real' leslies sound alike, either, so you're going to get all kinds of personal preference opinions. That's why they make so many instruments. There is just a range of acceptable sound that I have and the xk3's leslie simulation fits in well toward the high end range of that for me. Half the fun of this is hunting down the bast deal for you.

[MikeT156]

Dave, I know from our previous discussions that you bought your XK-3 from a bonifide Hammond dealer. Have you gotten a chance to hear the new MS 1771 cabinet? The KB MAG review said its even more powerful than the new Hammond monster Leslie. Any thoughts on it?

 

Mike T.

[David Loving]

No, I haven't heard the M1771, but it looks pretty cool: smaller than a 122, louder with the same great sound of the other ms products. Given that every MS product I have bought has delivered more than I expected, this guy should be no different in that regard. The MS products I have now I bought on faith, and in my opinion it was rewarded. I read the rave review in Keyboard - my issue finally arrived. I'd probably get the 1771 if I had the money right now! I'm a little gear rich and cash poor at the moment - that's God's way of telling me to practice more.

[MikeT156]

God has a way of keeping us Americans humble, doesn't he? I thought maybe your dealer had one already. Keep an eye out and let me know what you think if he gets one. Not that I money OR room, just curious. It looks to be the Leslie we always wanted that no one ever made, until now.

 

Later,

 

Mike T.

[David Loving]

I misunderstood. No my dealer only sells Hammond, and he didn't have the Leslie 771 when I bought the xk3. I got all my motion sound stuff over the net from web retailers.

[MikeT156]

Dave:

 

You probably bought you rig before the 1771 was announced anyway. Being that your dealer sells Hammond, I thought maybe he sold motion sound too. Just a thought.

 

Mike T.