Two Questions for Roland Fantom Owners

[aeon]

Id love to get some perspective from Roland Fantom owners:

 

First, for those Fantom owners who used to, or still do, own a Roland JD-990...does the Fantom capture the JD-990 sound in terms of the filters and overall quality? I ask this because I thought the JV-series synths were a step down from the JD-990, and I never took the time to really audition the XV-series machines.

 

The filter is very important to me...it can have a unique tone if it is a quality one like the JD-990 was, but I do not want anything like the JV-series filter.

 

Second, for those Fantom owners who have the -S version with user sampling RAM...does the OS provide full sampler functionality in terms of mapping, looping, layering, crossfading, multisamples, etc., or is it designed more for hits, one-shots, loops and phrase-sampling?

 

I ask because the forthcoming Fantom XR looks very interesting in many regards, but I cant tell how the potential 528MB of RAM is handled.

 

Roland, get a clue, and make your manuals and documentation downloadable, so those looking to do research and purchase study can see exactly what can be done and what you get!

 

Any help would be so very appreciated!

 

thanks in advance,

aeon

[Phait]

"Second, for those Fantom owners who have the -S version with user sampling RAM...does the OS provide full sampler functionality in terms of mapping, looping, layering, crossfading, multisamples, etc., or is it designed more for hits, one-shots, loops and phrase-sampling?"

 

The Fantom-S (and X I imagine) has: looping, multisamples, mixing (layering?) and uh... some of the stuff you said I haven't heard of cause I suck.

 

This isn't my site but I always recommend any people interested in the Fantom series to go to it: http://www.fantomized.info

 

The forum is great!

[aeon]

thanks Phait! I will have some good reading to do.

 

truth be told, if a Motif ES Rack existed, I wouldnt have posted this thread! OK, that was a little heavy-handed, as I dont see the Yamaha as perfect in any way...nothing against Roland in that comment either.

 

more comments are most welcome!

 

cheers,

aeon

[Phait]

I've read that the Fantom-X is what the Fantom-S should have been, and the Fantom-S is what the Fantom should have been. I agree.

 

When the FX came out I was dissapointed, and wondered if I should sell my FS. But there wasn't too much of improvement for me to really want to do that. Roland doesn't even make the FS's anymore... I guess it's kinda cool that I have one then. It doesn't matter though, it does what I want it to do and does it well. Plus I saved like $500.

[Song80s]

Phait, that is awesome news on the Fantom forum, finally !

I have joined up. I have the XR on order. I was looking for very clear answers on types of sample format supported. I am not sold on Translator.

To be continued

[realtrance]

aeon,

 

David Green, a guy who used to run a site called www.lilchips.com, has a lot of knowledge about the Roland PCM line-up. He seems to be hanging out at the Yahoo XV and XV5080 forums these days, and only parts of lilchips.com are left.

 

If I recall his comments about JD vs. JV, the original samples Roland used in both machines were 48kHz recorded, but the converters in the older JD were 20-bit, whereas they went down to 18-bit in the JV. Now, this is a subtle difference, and in fact the noise floor on the older JD circuitry (being higher) might've required higher-bit-rate conversion, but if I recall correctly claims have been made that this is a factor in the JD sound (maybe the noise in the circuitry is, too.. ).

 

With the XV technology -- at least on the better implementations, of which I believe the Fantom-X line is one? -- Roland goes back to using much better A/D converters, which will take care of this issue.

 

People more in the actual know than I can clarify on this, but it may be a factor in the perceived difference in sound.

 

I realize none of this has to do with the filters, the latter is a question only someone with the technical details on both the JD-990 and XV innards can really answer.

 

rt

[aeon]

IIRC from Davids info before, the sampling rates and ROM waves are as follows:

 

• JD-800: 44.1KHz ROM waves and engine
  
• JD-990: 44.1KHz ROM waves and engine except for inserted boards which are all 32KHz...the JD-990 upsamples them to 44.1KHz before the data enters the synth engine
  
• JV/XP-series: 32KHz ROM waves and engine
  
• MC-303/505: 32KHz ROM waves and engine
  
• XV-88/XV-3080: 32KHz ROM waves and engine
  
• XV-5080: 32KHz ROM waves and 44.1KHz engine that upsamples the ROM wave data
  
• XV-5050: 44.1KHz ROM waves and engine
  
• XV-2020: dunno
  
• Fantoms: 44.1KHz ROM waves and engine
   
  

that said, I think the engine rate is only part of it, and the converters, less so...it is really those filters.

also, I think I recall him saying the JD-990 was not 20-bit, but 18-bit.

 

but hey, my Roland SDX-330 is 16-bit, and sounds awesome!

 

all of this may be immaterial...because while the Fantom-X series has some features I think are very nice and better than the competition (PCM expansion, ease of use, use of Compact Flash for storage), lets just say that I have a meaner jones for a Yamaha MOTIF ES at this point...even given the WTF-were-they-thinking? Yamaha UI/OS.

[Phil B]

Originally posted by aeon:

does the OS provide full sampler functionality in terms of mapping, looping, layering, crossfading, multisamples, etc., or is it designed more for hits, one-shots, loops and phrase-sampling?

It has full sampler functionality, but setting up multisamples is not automatic by any stretch of the imagination and there is zero compatibility with any sample formats other than ... what you create on the Fantom-S. Roland is supposedly going to make an Akai translator available via download (not sure about Mac and Windows availability, though - it took them a while to release a Mac editor for the Fantom-S). One big problem with the Fantom-S and sampling was that that maximum RAM exceeded the maximum card size of 128MB and you have to save to the card before uploading to your PC via USB ... so the fact that you could have 500MB or whatever of RAM was pretty pointless and that, obviously, limited the benefit of the multisample functionality. The X will permit you to use PC cards with larger capacities.

 

That said, I like the Fantom-S a lot. Soundwise, I find that bright and clean Roland sound works well along side the FM7's and Reaktor's of the world.

 

As far as the filters go, I hear audible stepping sometimes that's a bit annoying, although you can run 2 filters in series to help that. And it tends to be more noticable when the resonance is boosted. I vaguely remember Dave Bryce saying the Motif ES filters had no audible stepping. I don't think he'd say that about the Fantom-S's filters.

 

I'd say, have patience, and give the XR a nice workout when it hits the stores. And the website Phait pointed you to will be a great source of info for you.