hangee_77 Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 My drummer is going back to his original country pretty soon. Right now our band doesn't have a drummer yet and the project still have to move on. I was thinking of doing midi sequence for the drum parts using Korg Trinity. I love the drum kit sound very acoustic only the cymbals, they are really fake. Do you guys know any good acoustic drum modules? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 See if you can find an Alesis DM Pro. I have yet to find a dedicated drum module that I like anywhere near as much. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaGe Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 FWIW I didn't like the sounds out of the DM PRO, I found most of them unusable, still too synthetic for my taste ... What's your budget? A used Roland XV2020 with the SRX Drums Expansion card could be what you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Originally posted by RaGe: FWIW I didn't like the sounds out of the DM PRO, I found most of them unusable, still too synthetic for my taste ... Synthetic? I guess that's subjective...I don't find the acoustic samples to be even slightly synthetic... Most of the DM Pro's samples were recorded at 24 bit, and (unlike the Roland samples) are not at all compressed. Also, unlike the Roland, the DM Pro is optimized to produce drum sounds - kinda like the difference between a sprinter and a long-distance runner - a synth's engine is designed to produce sustained tones, where a dedicated drum module is designed to have most of it's kick at the front end. A few high profile DM Pro users: Dennis Chambers - Niacin Pat Mastoletto - King Crimson John Mahon - Elton John Curt Bisquera - various artists Steve Ferrone - Tom Petty Doane Perry - Jethro Tull Nick D'Virgilio - Spock's Beard If you can find one, give it a listen. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeronyne Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Yeah, I absolutely love my DM Pro. I think it sounds extremely acoustic, especially when played by a drummer. You should also try the E-mu PX-7. It has some awesome acoustic stuff happening. "For instance" is not proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hangee_77 Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 What about the ddrum4 SE? I saw many good reviews on it. Hanjaya C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I like the PX-7 better than the DM Pro, but both sound a bit to processed to me. The Roland SRX drum expansion card sounds more like pure drums to my ears. The Roland TD-8 and TD-10 are best, but they cost the most. I have not had a chance to listen to the Yamaha expansion card that uses Spectrasonics sound. For realism software such as Battery beats any hardware except for maybe the TD-10+expansion card. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Originally posted by Rabid: I like the PX-7 better than the DM Pro, but both sound a bit to processed to me.Hmmmm... Perhaps you and RaGe are hearing the effects processor, because the raw samples are about as pristine as could be. Personally, I normally use the thing dead dry, so it's not an issue for me... ...then again, maybe it's just a matter of taste. I've always found Roland drum samples to be more than a bit synthetic sounding; however, I will admit that I've rarely had the opportunity (or need) to use them in an environment where I could really critically evaluate them. The V-drums, of course, are a different story... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hangee_77 Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 Battery?......Is it pretty similar to the LM4 MKii? I have the LM4 MKii & don't like it at all, most of the kits sound very cheezy. Anyway I'll check on battery later. Back to my Korg trinity drum kits, actually I pretty much like the drum sounds, except only for the cymbals. The cymbals sound not too full, they are weak. I heard POD music, and I have realized that the cymbals do fill up the atmosphere (full). I was thinking to add more reverb to the cymbals audio track, to make it sounds wild. Hanjaya C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fiala Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I was wondering about this same topic. When our drummer is unavailable, we've been making do with an old alesis HR-16. I'd like to convince the band to upgrade this, and was looking at drum modules, also. As I understand it, the DM Pro doesn't have any sequencing ability, so you'd have to drive it from something else, either a sequencer or a laptop, right? So, if you wanted a pure "drum machine", would you say that the PX-7 is the current leader for beat boxes under $1000? Tom F. "It is what it is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r33k Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I've only fiddled with a DM Pro once in a music store, but I was so disappointed with the sound of the unit that I completely wrote it off. The default kits were just awful, many of them having two or even three layered sounds on one key, resulting in a flam-y, phase-y mess. I recall not liking the hats and cymbals much better than the D4, which is a major weakness of that unit. Volumes of the various drums were set wierdly, too. Hats way too loud and stuff like that. I know all that stuff is fully editable, but factory kits are supposed to make you want to play and then buy the equipment. What I heard from the DM Pro made me want to run away with my fingers in my ears. I really wanted to like the DM Pro, too, and fully expected to like it. Wow, did I ever get my bubble burst! Sorry if this seems like a rant, but every time I hear Dave hype up the DM Pro, I always remember that experience. I should spend some more time with the unit, listen to the raw waveforms and create some of my own kits. One of these days... My $0.02, r33k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Originally posted by hangee_77: Battery?......Is it pretty similar to the LM4 MKii? I have the LM4 MKii & don't like it at all, most of the kits sound very cheezy. Anyway I'll check on battery later. ....Just remember that Battery and LM4 are sample players. You can purchase some very nice kits in either format. You might check out Drum Kit From Hell which comes in multi-format. DKFH 2 is due soon and comes bundled within a NI Kompakt player. I think it is something like 35 Gig. If you are in a hurry for a large sample set with an included player BFD is already out. It is 9 Gig with two expansions planned that are 9 Gig each. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Erwin: What I heard from the DM Pro made me want to run away with my fingers in my ears. I really wanted to like the DM Pro, too, and fully expected to like it. Wow, did I ever get my bubble burst! Sorry if this seems like a rant, but every time I hear Dave hype up the DM Pro, I always remember that experience. I should spend some more time with the unit, listen to the raw waveforms and create some of my own kits. One of these days...Geez...run away with your fingers in your ears? Wow...that's pretty extreme. To each his/her own, I suppose. As a friend of mine used to say - that's why the powers that be made blondes, brunettes and redheads. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Originally posted by tom fiala: ... So, if you wanted a pure "drum machine", would you say that the PX-7 is the current leader for beat boxes under $1000?I would because of the various methods you can use to create drum patterns; step, grid and live. And if you create patterns you like and want to improve the sound you can always use it to drive another unit, or drop your patterns onto the computer by way of the USB port and implement them within your DAW to use with a VSTi. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthetic Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 The DM Pro didn't do it for me, either. Cold and sterile, and those stacked sounds were worthless. There must be a few sounds on there that are cool, but I actually prefered my Alesis D4. I should have kept that one, judging by drum sounds I hear on the radio these days I think it's back in style. If you go for a nice sampler, hard or soft, that's probably the best source of drum sounds you'll ever find. While we're on the subject of drum modules, I saw one the other day that blew my mind. Check out the Analog Solutions Concussor, it's a modular synth with modules based on the 808 kick drum, CR78 snare, etc. Wikkid! http://www.analoguesolutions.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: Originally posted by Rabid: I like the PX-7 better than the DM Pro, but both sound a bit to processed to me.Hmmmm... Perhaps you and RaGe are hearing the effects processor, because the raw samples are about as pristine as could be. .... dBI think what it is for me is the Alesis and Emu sound like drums you hear on the radio or on a CD. The Roland sounds more like what I hear when sitting at a real drum set. It just seems that you can hear the smack of the stick and the ring of overtones. Not that you hear this on a CD, but you hear it when sitting at a set. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Dave Bryce said: I've always found Roland drum samples to be more than a bit synthetic sounding...The V-drums, of course, are a different story...Actually, Dave, based on information available from a Roland lawsuit against a sample-maker, the base story is the same in that the same Spectrasonics samples make up the drums found in Rolands ROM expansions and their V-Drum systems. Of course, the V-Drums have more samples available, and the necessary engine features to make it a dedicated drum solution, but the source of the waves are the same in either case. Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Originally posted by aeon: Of course, the V-Drums have more samples available, and the necessary engine features to make it a dedicated drum solution, but the source of the waves are the same in either case.Hmmm... I thought the V-drums used a different technology. I was under the impression that there was modelling involved, not just simple ROM playback. Was I mistaken? dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Dave Bryce said: I thought the V-drums used a different technology. I was under the impression that there was modelling involved, not just simple ROM playback. Was I mistaken?Yes. The Roland V-Drum technology is based on samples, but they are processed and played back in such a way that characteristics we would not normally associate with sample-playback may be modified. Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Originally posted by aeon: Dave Bryce said: I thought the V-drums used a different technology. I was under the impression that there was modelling involved, not just simple ROM playback. Was I mistaken?Yes. The Roland V-Drum technology is based on samples, but they are processed and played back in such a way that characteristics we would not normally associate with sample-playback may be modified.Interesting. Okay, now I'm kind of confused...I wonder what they mean exactly when they say "COSM drum modelling"? From the Roland web site's description of the TD-10: "Revolutionary percussion sound module models drum type, shell material, drum depth, drum head type, drum tuning, mic type and even mic placement on the "virtual" drum" That sure sounds like there's some modeling involved, doesn't it? If, in fact, it's just a ROMpler, that's some pretty powerful marketing spin... BTW, far be it from me to continue to defend the DM Pro, but it had the disctinction of getting some of the best reviews of any Alesis synth product that we released during that era. Even EM (who are normally a touch on the skeptical side), gave it a pretty great review: EM DM Pro review Here's what Sound on Sound had to say... I can't find the Keyboard mag one, but if memory serves, they gave it a Key Buy. Actually, IIRC, pretty much every mag that reviewed it gave it excellent marks. Once again, I guess it just goes to show that taste is amazingly subjective... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 V-Drums does use modeling but at least the toms and cymbles are sample based. Roland does not say much more than that. I am not sure if they modle the snare completely, or use a ROM base in which the use modeling to alter the tone of the snare. In either case, the hi-hats are the best thing about VDrums. I like having a bit of pedal responce then playing hi-hat. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Originally posted by Rabid: In either case, the hi-hats are the best thing about VDrums.For me, it's the way that the TD10 does brushes, specifically when you "drag" them across the head of the snare. I just love that - I've never heard anything else come even close... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fiala Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 OK.. I want to work out the midi drum parts in Cubase at home, then download them to the drum machine for the gig, as I don't have a laptop. What kind of affordable drum machine would allow this? (PX7 doesn't have a USB.) Tom F. "It is what it is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r33k Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: BTW, far be it from me to continue to defend the DM Pro... dBDave, you come across as far too defensive sometimes, especially when an Alesis product that came out under your watch gets a less then steller review from one of us. What EM, SoS or anbody else has to say about the DM Pro doesn't change the experience I had playing it in the store. It's not a personal attack on you when some of us decide we don't like the DM Pro or anything else with an Alesis badge. We love ya, man! Don't take it personally! Best, r33k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Erwin: Dave, you come across as far too defensive sometimes, especially when an Alesis product that came out under your watch gets a less then steller review from one of us. What EM, SoS or anbody else has to say about the DM Pro doesn't change the experience I had playing it in the store. It's not a personal attack on you when some of us decide we don't like the DM Pro or anything else with an Alesis badge. We love ya, man! Don't take it personally! Understood and appreciated. The DM Pro isn't just a product that came out under my watch, though - it was my idea to make it. Not only that, it really came out quite the way that I hoped it would. Consequently, I hope you'll understand if I seem to be somewhat protective of it, and maybe more disappointed than I should be when I hear it panned... Also (if I may), I think you tend to come across a bit more negatively than perhaps you realize sometimes, Michael...saying that the default kits were "just awful" and that it made you want to run out of the store with your fingers in your ears is a bit stronger than "less than stellar", doncha think? Is it possible that if someone spoke about your work in those terms that perhaps you might get a bit defensive as well? dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r33k Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: Also (if I may), I think you tend to come across a bit more negatively than perhaps you realize sometimes, Michael...saying that the default kits were "just awful" and that it made you want to run out of the store with your fingers in your ears is a bit stronger than "less than stellar", doncha think? dBIt is, but I did mean every word I said. The DM Pro rubbed me really, really wrong that day. Maybe if I had known at the time I posted those words that the DM Pro was so close to you, I may have been gentler with my critisicm out of respect for you. Like I said, I'd welcome the chance to try the unit again, listen to the raw waves, program my own kits and give it a proper test some day. Hey, besides, you're a Philly boy; you've got a thick skin, dontcha?! Have you ever gone to the music store to try out a new piece of gear that you had heard good things about, fully expecting to love it, and then been really let down? Another time it happened to me was when I went to check out the Yamaha M7/M5 keyboards. They were the first ROMpler workstation keyboards that I remember that advertised having separate effects processors for each multi-timbral part in a performance. So when you pulled your patches into the performance, the effects were retained just as you had programmed them. "GREAT", I thought, "Someone has finally done the right thing in a workstation!" Then I went to play it. Holy crap, did the sounds in that unit suck! But enough of this negativity. Apologies to the OP for hijacking this topic. Best, r33k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by tom fiala: OK.. I want to work out the midi drum parts in Cubase at home, then download them to the drum machine for the gig, as I don't have a laptop. What kind of affordable drum machine would allow this? (PX7 doesn't have a USB.)Actually the PX7 does have a USB port. When connected to a computer it allows the included software to store songs and patterns to the computer. You can also move patterns and songs back to the PX7. Creating patterns within your software sequencer and moving them to the PX7 is doable but a bit tricky. I have used my SP-11/TD8 combo to create patterns, edited them in my software sequencer, then moved them to my XL-7. That is not how I normally work though. The XL-7 with its included pads make it very easy to creay good drum patterns. I use it when I don't want to move to the room with my drums. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaGe Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Shame on me, I bought the DM Pro based on those magazines reviews, without even test riding one before. Actually the use of the word "syntehtic" is a poor choice of word to describe my feelings about the DM Pro ... I found the pacthes to be without character, a bit cold sounding and above all not very playable. My biggest disappointment was the toms and cymbals. It is probably great for using individual sounds in a song but as a drummer replacement ... mmm not sure. About 6 month later I tried a SRX Drums card on a 5080 and was blown away ... EXPRESSIVE and inspirational is how I would decscribe the drums sounds on that board. It was actually the first time I had experienced multi-samples velocity switch and that only did it for me. I believe the DM pro does not do that (I may be wrong) but instead relies on filters. Anyways, like you said Dave it's all a matter of taste ... didn't know the DM Pro was actually your baby! My post was not meant to be negative or anything. And regarding those high profile musos who love their DM Pro I have this to say: Miles Davis used the cheesiest DX7 patches. I nevertheless adore Miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Erwin: Hey, besides, you're a Philly boy; you've got a thick skin, dontcha?! By and large, yes... Have you ever gone to the music store to try out a new piece of gear that you had heard good things about, fully expecting to love it, and then been really let down? Yep. Most recently, the V-Synth. After reading up on it, I was sure I was gonna love it, and I was sure I was gonna get one. I really didn't connect with it at all. Point well taken. Y'know what else I wonder? As I recall, there was a first release of the DM Pro that went out with the wrong kits and the wrong software...I wonder if you came across one of those.... ..then again, maybe it just wasn't for you. That'll happen. Hey, I always had a problem with Ensoniq gear, and I knew a bunch of people who swore by their stuff. I could never explain it - it just rubbed me the wrong way (except for the TS-10/12, which I kinda liked). Anyway...maybe you'll get a chance to check one out at some other point. I appreciate the fact that you're open to that. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by RaGe: Miles Davis used the cheesiest DX7 patches.Yeah, he did. I tried to help him with that when I worked for him, but he'd have none of it. I figured he just didn't know his way around it, but that wasn't the case - he actually liked those sounds he used. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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