coyote Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I think there's good reason for the prevailing interest in "interviews with dinosaurs". Electronic dance music is much more about production than about playing. If a mag like Keyboard goes too far in pursuit of electronica, it begins to exclude the actual playing of keyboards and overlaps a slew of other magazines which already cover production. Keyboard by all means ought devote some space to it inasmuch as it is synth-based, but there's an entire range of players who sell millions of records, and actually get up onstage and play their keyboards in live performance. If it becomes about electronica, then it is all about the gear as everyone searches for the latest trendy sound. So let's keep hearing about rock players, jazz players, 'smooth' jazz, gospel, pop, classical, and all the other Jurassic hangers-on who can intelligently discuss performance. Originally posted by orangefunk: I've always thought Keyboards reviews were really shallow, like they were afraid of upsetting the potential advertisers. SOS on the other hand are usually very honest.. Keyboard was always better for theory articles or interviews of rock dinosaurs that you thought had died years ago.. One of the things I used to find funny was how Keyboard were a bit behind the times when it came to cutting edge artists... took them quite a while to latch onto the rise of electronic dance music. They seemed to be more interested in the keybioard player in Chicago, Patrick Moraz or Tom Coster... but then a few guys here would probably prefer that anyways I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 It's tough being a magazine like Keyboard. Do you cover: - Nine Inch Nails? - Baroque playing technique? - Programming drums in Battery? - Jordan Rudess? - Greg Rollie? - Pulling new samples into a Motif? - Jazz improv chops? - The Neptunes? The answer, of course, is yes. And no one's ever gonna be 100% happy with the results. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackpine Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I think its funny that a bunch of guys who routinely drop thousands of $$$'s on gear, moan so severely about ALL these mags. Between comped subscriptions and the ones I actually pay for, I receive: Keyboard, EQ, Tape Op, Pro Sound News, Media Online, Mix, and SoS. There is ALMOST always something in each one that is useful every month. To be honest I can get through an issue of almost any one of these mags in just a few minutes. I don't need to read a one page review of a Reason update, or 10 pages on the latest 10 thousand dollar converters. Use what you need and discard the rest. www.relayerstudios.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I'm intrigued to learn that Keyboard is a "music GEAR magazine." I always thought that it was a magazine about MUSIC with special emphasis on subjects of interest to keyboard players - technique, history, reviews, interviews with players, AND some gear. Perhaps someone should phone the editors and ask them to change the title to Keyboard Gear And Nothing Else Dammit! The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Well... if you remember, not too long ago this place became the Music Gear Network. I thought that was quite indicative of the trends in the participating magazines, which had become almost completely about GEAR. I doubt it's mere coincidence that this place became (again) MusicPlayer.com - the emphasis in the mags shifted more toward playing at the same time. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmieWannaB Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Perhaps someone should phone the editors and ask them to change the title to Keyboard Gear And Nothing Else Dammit! I'm sure you mean that sarcastically. We all just spent a year bitchin' about it being too gear oriented. IMHO, Ernie's recent changes to balance music and gear has made the magazine a must have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Fwiw I agree, its justa pity that Keyboard were many years behind Europe when it came to recognising electronica ad techno music. Derrick May and Juan Atkins (US guys the godfathers of techno) were in UK mags as early as 1987/88, I can't recall Keyboard ever mentioning them yet they are gods in Europe... it seemed to take forever for Keyboard to get onto electronica/techno/acid jazz/revival of funk etc... I didn't mind reading Moraz/Wakeman interviews et al, I was just a bit disappointed by what they talked about.. "the old days" I'd like to see a full cover story dedicated to guys making a name for themselves now like Brad Mehldau, Robert Walter, et al.. I prefer to hear from guys who are still making music that breaks a few boundaries, or is at least on the cutting edge. Originally posted by coyote: I think there's good reason for the prevailing interest in "interviews with dinosaurs". Electronic dance music is much more about production than about playing. If a mag like Keyboard goes too far in pursuit of electronica, it begins to exclude the actual playing of keyboards and overlaps a slew of other magazines which already cover production. Keyboard by all means ought devote some space to it inasmuch as it is synth-based, but there's an entire range of players who sell millions of records, and actually get up onstage and play their keyboards in live performance. If it becomes about electronica, then it is all about the gear as everyone searches for the latest trendy sound. So let's keep hearing about rock players, jazz players, 'smooth' jazz, gospel, pop, classical, and all the other Jurassic hangers-on who can intelligently discuss performance. Originally posted by orangefunk: I've always thought Keyboards reviews were really shallow, like they were afraid of upsetting the potential advertisers. SOS on the other hand are usually very honest.. Keyboard was always better for theory articles or interviews of rock dinosaurs that you thought had died years ago.. One of the things I used to find funny was how Keyboard were a bit behind the times when it came to cutting edge artists... took them quite a while to latch onto the rise of electronic dance music. They seemed to be more interested in the keybioard player in Chicago, Patrick Moraz or Tom Coster... but then a few guys here would probably prefer that anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by orangefunk: Fwiw I agree, its justa pity that Keyboard were many years behind Europe when it came to recognising electronica ad techno music. I'd like to see a full cover story dedicated to guys making a name for themselves now like Brad Mehldau, Robert Walter, et al.. I prefer to hear from guys who are still making music that breaks a few boundaries, or is at least on the cutting edge. very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: Hey weasel boy... this is a musician's forum - better ditch that tie. Nah - he's got the changes taped to the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Grace Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I read whatever shows up at my house... ...And that includes most of what's been under discussion here and other music and computer publications as well.... Originally posted by Byrdman: Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: Hey weasel boy... this is a musician's forum - better ditch that tie. Nah - he's got the changes taped to the back.And maybe he's going for that retro '80s new wave look. What with recent remakes like the Ataris' cover of Don Henley's "Boys Of Summer" and No Doubt's remake of Talk Talk's "It's My Life" it looks like the '80s are coming back... Best, Geoff My Blue Someday appears on Apple Music | Spotify | YouTube | Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 <> I agree that a lot of changes are going on with Keyboard, and they are positive. Ernie's just starting to hit his stride. People often forget magazines are in flux. Ideas are attempted in one issue, don't work, and are discarded the next...or vice-versa. I really don't want to get into the "reviews please advertisers" thing, which has been gone into extensively over in SSS (no one ever did answer my challenge of providing the name of a bad piece of gear to which I had given a good review). NO ONE tells me what to write, and NO ONE edits what I write to make it more or less favorable. I stand behind what I say. I WILL say that after using a piece of gear for, say, four or six months, you often find little nasty things you didn't find on the initial go-round. But I also often find cool things I missed, so it balances out. Remember the Law of Positive Magazine Reviews...which scenerio do you think is more likely? a) I go to an editor and say "Hey, I saw this really great looking piece of gear at NAMM, can I review it? Huh? Please? or b) I go to an editor and say, "Hey, I saw this piece of gear at NAMM that doesn't really interest me. How about I spend the next month or so working with it, getting to know it inside out, then writing a lukewarm review? That seems like a good use of my time." By and large, one of the perqs of the mag business is reviewers get to cherry pick the cool stuff to review, because there are WAY too many products to review in a single month. So you pick the ones that are fun. Hey, wouldn't you? If you want to hear people bitch about things, there's always the net. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Anderton: <> I agree that a lot of changes are going on with Keyboard, and they are positive. Ernie's just starting to hit his stride. People often forget magazines are in flux. Ideas are attempted in one issue, don't work, and are discarded the next...or vice-versa. I really don't want to get into the "reviews please advertisers" thing, which has been gone into extensively over in SSS (no one ever did answer my challenge of providing the name of a bad piece of gear to which I had given a good review). NO ONE tells me what to write, and NO ONE edits what I write to make it more or less favorable. I stand behind what I say. I WILL say that after using a piece of gear for, say, four or six months, you often find little nasty things you didn't find on the initial go-round. But I also often find cool things I missed, so it balances out. Remember the Law of Positive Magazine Reviews...which scenerio do you think is more likely? a) I go to an editor and say "Hey, I saw this really great looking piece of gear at NAMM, can I review it? Huh? Please? or b) I go to an editor and say, "Hey, I saw this piece of gear at NAMM that doesn't really interest me. How about I spend the next month or so working with it, getting to know it inside out, then writing a lukewarm review? That seems like a good use of my time." By and large, one of the perqs of the mag business is reviewers get to cherry pick the cool stuff to review, because there are WAY too many products to review in a single month. So you pick the ones that are fun. Hey, wouldn't you? If you want to hear people bitch about things, there's always the net.You know, Craig, that's an angle I hadn't really considered. I guess I always assumed that the manufacturers assaulted you guys with shipments - REVIEW ME! stamped on the box or something. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Very few manufacturers send hardware products unsolicited. There is a limited pool of review gear that goes to the various magazines, so we have to make arrangements to get something sent to us. Another reason is that when a new product comes out, there is usually intense pressure to fill the dealer pipeline, not send out units to magazines. There have even been times when we've had to go borrow (or sometimes even buy) something from a music store in order to review it because the manufacturer didn't have any review units available. The situation is different with software and sample CDs; some manufacturers do just "put the magazine on the list" so that the products are in front of us when it's time to do reviews. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobT Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by orangefunk: Derrick May and Juan Atkins (US guys the godfathers of techno) were in UK mags as early as 1987/88, I can't recall Keyboard ever mentioning them yet they are gods in Europe... it seemed to take forever for Keyboard to get onto electronica/techno/acid jazz/revival of funk etc... Yeah Detroit Techno !! Derrick and Juan were rocking the house and getting local Detroit airplay waaaaay before 1987/1988. It was always a treat to watch them spin too. RobT Famous Musical Quotes: "I would rather play Chiquita Banana and have my swimming pool than play Bach and starve" - Xavier Cugat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I currently get Mix and EM for free. I mostly skim these now(used to read Mix from cover to cover except for the "Live" stuff but got really sick and bored of lots of drivel about movies, sound tracks etc.). I still read Steven St Croix every issue however. I still get Recording which I was reading cover to cover from day one but often felt like it was scratching my nails on the black board. Some articles are good. But the ones that aren't really suck. The TAXI thing I read a few times and is about the most nauseating thing I've ever seen in a music magazine. Their beginner articles with reference to inputs/outputs as "gozintas" and "gozoutofs" or something like that makes me want to vomit. And why did I continue to read it all these years if its so annoying? Because I read it at work or in the bathroom when I've read everything else. Also the reviews are totally lame (editors note: What Markyboard means is that Recording is the greatest magazine in the world). But what has really pissed me off and made me not renew was the pictures of gear they throw into their regular articles that is just another advertising ploy. I mean common- people PAY for this magazine - its not one of the freebies. Oh I also read Keyboard cover to cover. Despite the criticism its always been and still is my favorite(excluding Gallery ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Originally posted by RobT: Originally posted by orangefunk: Yeah Detroit Techno !! Derrick and Juan were rocking the house and getting local Detroit airplay waaaaay before 1987/1988. It was always a treat to watch them spin too.I also had their Cybotron recording from 82, although really they were pretty raw and unoriginal at that stage. I think looking back their best work was around 1987/88 when they just had really bare bones equipment.. once they got deeper into technology they lost the plot as is often the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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