USC_Keys Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Hi all! I am in the market for my first synth. I've been in love with synths for a long time, but I was never able to afford one and they always intimidated me from a technological standpoint. Well, I've been saving up for a few years now and I have enough scholarships to cover most of my college expenses, so I'll be ready to buy by year's end. I just want a general purpose "do everything" synth. I won't be able to buy a new one every couple of years, so I want to get a good one now and hold onto it for a while, learn the ropes, you know, just get really good use out of it. OK, so enough rambling on: I have my eyes on the Motif ES6 and the new Kurzweil K2661. I'm leaning toward the ES, but I would GREATLY appreciate if you more experienced synth users could give me an objective analysis of the pros and cons of each (and anything else you think might make my decision more easier). I have yet to demo either (I haven't found a shop anywhere near me that carries both synths so I can do a side-by-side...but considering I'm such a newbie, I'm not sure how much good a demo would do...whatever synth I end up getting, I'll just work like hell to make myself master it). I have read that Kurz synths are difficult to program for...I know very little about synths (but I'm researching synth technologies and how they work on my own) and programming, but the plus side is that I will be doing this as hobby and will have plenty of time to "mess around" with and slowly learn whatever keyboard I get. And quickly, here are my needs: Musical sytle: I am mostly interested in electroncia-type music, you know, ambient and stuff like that. Ambitions: I'm not looking to make a career out of this, I just want to make music and have a rewarding hobby. Sampling needs: I will be using sampling features of whatever board I get just incase I come across some sounds I like. I'll probably be using built-in sounds the most. Live performance/studio recording: I will not be doing any live performance. I'll be writing/composing/creating in my bedroom for myself. I'd like a board that has as much "stand-alone" production capability as possible. Again, any and all input would be very much appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthetic Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 For electronica on a budget, it's hard to beat Reason: http://www.propellerheads.se/ It's a software-based workstation with a bunch of drum sounds and synthesizers. A few guys on this board do complete projects in Reason. Check out the MP3 demos on their site, it's a serious piece of software. If you go this route, you'll also want a keyboard controller. This can be a synthesizer with a MIDI out or a USB controller (like an M-Audio's Radium). The only drag about Reason is that you can't use it as a MIDI sequencer to drive other synths, but you could run a sequencing program on the same computer to play back both. Have I thouroughly confused you yet? OK, here's two options. (I'm assuming you already have a computer. First the cheap one: Propellerheads Reason, M-Audio Radium 61 as keyboard controller Now the pricier one: Propellerheads Reason, MOTIF ES6, Emagic Logic (Mac) or Steinberg Cubase (Win) software. The former is a cool softsynth workstation for electronica. The latter gives you a better synth to play with, a nicer physical keyboard than the Radium, an easier way to practice, better piano and other acoustic sounds. It also gives you a cool sequencer to work with for recording MIDI and audio. Option A will run you around $500, option B will be more like $3,000, depending on which synth you get. Hope this helps, -jl p.s. Fight on, USC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpel Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Hey, USC_Keys, do you have a reasonably powerful computer that you can devote partially or entirely to audio? That might change your options considerably. For example, you might use a computer sampler to cover your bread n' butter sounds (Pianos, EPs, Organs, Basses, acoustic drums, orchestral etc) and then use the remaining cash to buy a more specialized "synthy" synth (i.e., not sample-based) that would really supply the sounds and programmability for your chose genre(s). If you already have the computer to work with, you should entertain this possibility. Also, what do you have for a monitoring situation? Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpel Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Ooops, Synthetic beat me to it (and, predictably, with a much more thorough response!) Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USC_Keys Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 Hmmm... I have a laptop with an Intel Centrino chipset that runs at 1.4gHz and has a 1MB cache, but I read that its performance is comparable to a 2.0gHz Pentium 4. I have 512MB of RAM and a 30GB hard drive. I don't know if it will do. Either way, I really don't like the idea of a software synth...I'd really like to use a PC as little as possible when making music. I like the idea of a more "physical" approach with a hardware keyboard-style synth. Nonetheless, I appreciate your input and will think about what you all mentioned as an option. Anything additional input would be great. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Between the Kurz and the Yamaha - go play both and trust your ears. That's what's really important. Spec-wise, the Kurz has a more powerful engine but the Yamaha excels in every other area. I just got an ES8. It's amazing - I think it's one of the best ROMplers that I've ever played. Great sounds, an incredible amount of wave ROM, tons of sampling memory, and a whole mess of other features. Plus, I think it just sounds awesome. I'm just delighted with the thing. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Welcome to the forums. I think both of your choices are fine, like Dave says, and you should definitely take the opportunity to mess around and listen to both. If you're interested in getting good sounds for your style of music right out of the box, I think the Yamaha may have an edge. In any case, don't be too freaked out about "programming" as a newbie. Again, both synths will have some great sounds from the day you take them home, and that'll be a good point to start modifying and tweaking to make everything right for your tunes. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I'd like to suggest a Roland Fantom-S - not as a typical suggestion.. I am not experienced with synths and not quite qualified to help/recommend yet - but I suggest the Fantom-S as another option because I've read it is very easy to use - and you mentioned you didn't want to have a chore programming. I encourage any choice you go with, I'm merely extending your options. Anyone advising you to listen to each board and decide which one has the best sounds (to you) is solid advice. Try out each board you're looking at, and the Fantom-S. It has sampling capabilities, can interface to your computer for sample transfer via USB. I'll be getting mine pretty soon. It seems there's not much speak of the Fantom-S here, so I will suggest a dedicated forum: http://fantom-s.info You'll find images/specs on the board. I would also suggest http://www.roland.co.uk I believe it is - the UK site (not the USA site) has interactive Flash demos of the Fantom-S. I must also mention IF you do decide to buy a Fantom-S, get it from FullCompass.com - because the are offering it for $1685 - this is between 20% and 30% off the original dealer price of $2095 - manufacturer price is $2495. If you buy from FullCompass.com the total price will come to $1769 (including tax). I think it's a steal! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USC_Keys Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 Originally posted by Phait: I'd like to suggest a Roland Fantom-S - not as a typical suggestion.. I am not experienced with synths and not quite qualified to help/recommend yet - but I suggest the Fantom-S as another option because I've read it is very easy to use - and you mentioned you didn't want to have a chore programming. I encourage any choice you go with, I'm merely extending your options. Anyone advising you to listen to each board and decide which one has the best sounds (to you) is solid advice. Try out each board you're looking at, and the Fantom-S. It has sampling capabilities, can interface to your computer for sample transfer via USB. I'll be getting mine pretty soon. It seems there's not much speak of the Fantom-S here, so I will suggest a dedicated forum: http://fantom-s.info You'll find images/specs on the board. I would also suggest http://www.roland.co.uk I believe it is - the UK site (not the USA site) has interactive Flash demos of the Fantom-S. I must also mention IF you do decide to buy a Fantom-S, get it from FullCompass.com - because the are offering it for $1685 - this is between 20% and 30% off the original dealer price of $2095 - manufacturer price is $2495. If you buy from FullCompass.com the total price will come to $1769 (including tax). I think it's a steal! Good luck!Thanks for the suggestion. However, even though I know very little abouts synths and programming, I would welcome the challenge of learning how to program. The thought used to scare me, but not anymore. I don't want the machine to do everything automatically for me. I'd prefer to be the one in control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 If this is your first time using a keyboard as a sequencer I suggest checking out the Fantom and the Triton. They are quality keyboards and the screen makes them much easier to sequencer and program. I also like them because they have a stick. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I just thought: people that hate wheels can always superglue some plastic stick on the wheel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I was a fan of the Roland stick... until I bought my CS6x! With wheels you're much more in control. Okay, a short and superficial comparison. Yamaha - great pianos, EPs, okay strings, not so good organs, great leads, good pads, weird and unintuitive UI. Roland - great strings and orchestral sounds, warm pads, okay pianos and EPs, good organs, simple UI, too clean for my taste, not cutting through enough again for my taste. Korg - great weird leads, cool organs, good pads, okay strings, not so good pianos and EPs, simple UI, bad experience with fucked up keys. Kurzweil - very wide range of synth programming possibilities, warm pianos, springy keys, bad experience with crashing OS. All of these opinions are just my point of view, YMMV. http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Originally posted by Superbobus: Yamaha - great pianos, EPs, okay strings, not so good organs, great leads, good pads, weird and unintuitive UI. All of these opinions are just my point of view, YMMV.Curious, have you played an ES? -Mike Martin Casio Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthguy Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I sort of agree with superbobus. However the Motif ES is supposed to be a monster synth, which you can expand with synthesizer boards which add actual instruments to it. The Motif ES also has a ton of samples in rom which are supposed to be superb, along with some excellent effects, and I can attest to a love for the Yamaha synths, even tho I am heavily biased in favor of Roland and Korg, with their Fantom and Triton. The Triton is another workstation which is ideal for techno-ambient-whatever, and the Karma more so, and you can add a marvelous 6 note synthesizer board to them too. However I have a feeling that for a year or so, the Motif ES will be the synth to beat, until the Korg Oasys keyboard finally appears out of the vapors, as well as the new Kurzweils and Rolands built to surpass the ES. The ES is a synth you probably won't get tired of, ever, especially with the synth boards Yamaha makes for it. This keyboard solo has obviously been tampered with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florin Andrei Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I posted a question almost exactly like yours a while ago, i'm in the same position like you, i have similar preferences, etc. The discussion that ensued can be read here: choosing a keyboard Based on the discussion and on the research i did on the Internet, i ended up buying an Alesis QS6.2 synthesizer from Music123.com . I'm very happy with it, it does everything i need. It seems to me that the Alesis stuff has an excellent performance/price ratio, so it's appealing for low-budget types. The QS6.2 is really easy to program; even a newbie like me could figure out pretty much everything pretty quick. Today, i went to a local store (actually a guitars store, on Stevens Creek in Santa Clara) and saw an Alesis Ion - boy, isn't that thing wonderful? I was drooling all over it. It allows you to tweak the sound to death, and every setting is pretty obvious. Based on my meager experience, an analog synth (like the Ion) is complementary to a digital one (like the QS6.2). When/if i get a chance (and some money as well) i'll try and get an Ion. If i could turn back time, i'd rather get the analog synth (Ion) first, and the digital one (QS6.2) after that. It seems to me that the analog synth is more "tweakable" and the sound is "sweeter". But maybe that's just me, it's probably the image cast by my own expectations. I'm trying really hard to not be an Alesis fan, but being a low-budget creature and generally liking a good performance/price ratio... it's hard not to be. Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Mike Martin: Originally posted by Superbobus: Yamaha - great pianos, EPs, okay strings, not so good organs, great leads, good pads, weird and unintuitive UI. All of these opinions are just my point of view, YMMV.Curious, have you played an ES?Now you've done it! GAS attack... Nope I didn't play the ES, but apparently Yamaha is listening to us players. http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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