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Smoking ban in clubs ! ! !


stoo schultz

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Originally posted by paostby:

Originally posted by Rick Kreuzer:

...Maybe I could sue the club for providing a hostile and unhealthy work environment! Then I could BUY the club, make it non-smoking, attract all those who have a few extra bucks that they didn't spend on cigs and sell them more alcohol, and make yet another fortune!!Hmm.....that's a thought...

You could possibly do this if you worked for the club. You knew the house rules going in, so you can't complain.

 

Why don't you go the route of all business owners and simply start a business? Is a non-smoking club doomed to failure? If so, then you wouldn't want the ban, either.

He won't open his own non-smoking club because like most non-smokers he wants it for free, they like picking the pockets of smokers, and blaming them for his stale colonge and beer smell on his clothes, as he drives home drunk every night.

Living' in the shadow,

of someone else's dream....

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Originally posted by djwayne:

Originally posted by Rabid:

Originally posted by djwayne:

Thanks for the propaganda beetching out session, thought this was a keyboard/music forum.

The troublemakers always want to go off topic.

 

Now ya wanna tell us how wonderful gay sex is, and how it should be tolerated, but not smoking ??

 

Now we're "thowing acid" ?? ya right...get lost

Spoken like someone who is truly addicted and in denial.

 

Robert

Spoken only in response to harassment.
WHat the fuck was that?!! I hope that's a joke...should we just refer to you as John Rocker? Where the hell did someone's sexuality come into the equation? By the way, "throwing acid" was AN ANALOGY!!! and I like "i had to smoke cause everyone around did it." Look, I have no problem with you smoking, but don't blame society for it. That's akin to that ridiculous argument that EVERYONE in the ghetto is a drug peddling, crack smoking, gang banger. I appreciate hardships, but unless your dad is holding an m-16 to your head at this moment, yelling, "SMOKE IT," don't use him as an excuse for an addiction. have a nice day :D
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Although I sometimes get accused of being conservative, am really an old school liberal. Back in the old days, liberals were advocates of the underdog...the poor and the oppressed and all that.

Even though I used to smoke, I still respected those who didn't.

Society and liberalism have grown much more narcissistic these days. It should always be that the rights of the offended take precedence over the offenders. But, more and more, it is becoming en vogue to stick up for peoples' right to offend more than it is to protect those who are being offended.

Smoking is not only offensive, it is a health hazard. Decent and reasonable people should recognize that and respect the rights of those who care about their health. What makes public smoking any more acceptable and safer than, say, public defecation? At least one can usually avoid stepping in the defecation; smoking can't be avoided unless you stay home, which is where smokers should go if they want to smoke. If you want something as insignificant as a weed to show its superiority over you (which is the point I got to when I quit) then fine, but keep it to yourself or at least take it outside.

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Originally posted by Anomaly:

Although I sometimes get accused of being conservative, am really an old school liberal. Back in the old days, liberals were advocates of the underdog...the poor and the oppressed and all that.

Even though I used to smoke, I still respected those who didn't.

Society and liberalism have grown much more narcissistic these days. It should always be that the rights of the offended take precedence over the offenders. But, more and more, it is becoming en vogue to stick up for peoples' right to offend more than it is to protect those who are being offended.

Smoking is not only offensive, it is a health hazard. Decent and reasonable people should recognize that and respect the rights of those who care about their health. What makes public smoking any more acceptable and safer than, say, public defecation? At least one can usually avoid stepping in the defecation; smoking can't be avoided unless you stay home, which is where smokers should go if they want to smoke. If you want something as insignificant as a weed to show its superiority over you (which is the point I got to when I quit) then fine, but keep it to yourself or at least take it outside.

public defactation haha....I made the same post earlier (see above)
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You can take your propaganda home. This is why we have smoking sections, to keep the troublemaking non-smokers OUT !!!!! Leave !!! Go Away !! Us smokers don't want your kind here !!!!!! SCRAM !!!!

Living' in the shadow,

of someone else's dream....

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Originally posted by djwayne:

Yep, It's a tough business. I recorded in a non smoking studio once, It was a nigtmare. Tensions were high, and the resulting recording was no better than what I could do at home. I couldn't wait to leave the place, and never went back. Not smoking was such a big issue with the guy, the music seemed secondary. I prefer having my own smokin' studio, even if I have to clean once in awhile, it's just more relaxed, except when non-smokers show up wanting free recordings. Thank God they're gone !!

Once I spent about ten full-time days in a *small* studio, working with someone who smoked three packets every day. He was so addicted that a lot of times, he didn't ever *realize* he had just started a new one.

It was a fucking nightmare. Concentrating on music was a real problem. I felt awful, and I got a bronchitis which lasted for the next two months. You could say that I smoked three packets a day myself during that period - only, against my will.

But at least, now for me it's only a (bad) memory; he's still a slave of his addiction. I pity him.

 

What's that thing about non-smokers wanting free recordings..?!

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Originally posted by marino:

Originally posted by djwayne:

Yep, It's a tough business. I recorded in a non smoking studio once, It was a nigtmare. Tensions were high, and the resulting recording was no better than what I could do at home. I couldn't wait to leave the place, and never went back. Not smoking was such a big issue with the guy, the music seemed secondary. I prefer having my own smokin' studio, even if I have to clean once in awhile, it's just more relaxed, except when non-smokers show up wanting free recordings. Thank God they're gone !!

Once I spent about ten full-time days in a *small* studio, working with someone who smoked three packets every day. He was so addicted that a lot of times, he didn't ever *realize* he had just started a new one.

It was a fucking nightmare. Concentrating on music was a real problem. I felt awful, and I got a bronchitis which lasted for the next two months. You could say that I smoked three packets a day myself during that period - only, against my will.

But at least, now for me it's only a (bad) memory; he's still a slave of his addiction. I pity him.

 

What's that thing about non-smokers wanting free recordings..?!

It's been my experience with non smokers that they expect free recording time, they want my studio to become smoke free, and even complain when I ask them to pay for recording tape. They've expected the world to be handed to them, because they can play a few chords and sing a few notes. It's a real ego problem, with some of the people I've worked with, and prefer not to work with them anymore. They can find a nice non-smoking studio to record in. I don't mind.

 

Sorry to hear of your problems with smoking, but if you can't handle it in a studio, what are you gonna do in a club situation ?? I worked with a guy like that, and he refused to play clubs, after awhile he refused to play anywhere, and all our practice time was wasted. He's a great guy, but he can not handle smoke, nor can he handle playing out. Why does he even bother pretending to be a musician, when all he really wants to do is complain, or has such a medical problem that even the faintest wiff of smoke bothers him ?? He should stay home with a bottle of oxygen, in his plastic bubble, he's too sensitive to be in public, nevermind play in a band at a club.

Living' in the shadow,

of someone else's dream....

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I place this this entire discussion on the same level as supporting the ancient sport of boxing - a sport where the purpose is to hit your opponent in the head and knock him out.

 

Millions of years of evolution and this is where we still are? You guys are defending the right to shorten your lives by knowingly and willfully inhaling pollutants. JFC, get a life.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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Originally posted by Dave Horne:

I place this this entire discussion on the same level as supporting the ancient sport of boxing - a sport where the purpose is to hit your opponent in the head and knock him out.

 

Millions of years of evolution and this is where we still are? You guys are defending the right to shorten your lives by knowingly and willfully inhaling pollutants. JFC, get a life.

I place this whole discussion on the same level as arguing with childish nerds, who don't get their way, and have to resort to insulting any smoker out there with years of propaganda. This war has been going for years. If I believed all the baloney people say about smoking, I should have been dead 25 years ago. The sad reality is, many forms of cancer are hereditary, and many people who have never smoked, still get cancer and die. Deal with it, we're all gonna die someday, of something, and in today's world, I'm surprised I've made it this long. Many people haven't. Try arguing for world peace.

Living' in the shadow,

of someone else's dream....

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Originally posted by djwayne:

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

I place this this entire discussion on the same level as supporting the ancient sport of boxing - a sport where the purpose is to hit your opponent in the head and knock him out.

 

Millions of years of evolution and this is where we still are? You guys are defending the right to shorten your lives by knowingly and willfully inhaling pollutants. JFC, get a life.

I place this whole discussion on the same level as arguing with childish nerds, who don't get their way, and have to resort to insulting any smoker out there with years of propaganda. This war has been going for years. If I believed all the baloney people say about smoking, I should have been dead 25 years ago. The sad reality is, many forms of cancer are hereditary, and many people who have never smoked, still get cancer and die. Deal with it, we're all gonna die someday, of something, and in today's world, I'm surprised I've made it this long. Many people haven't. Try arguing for world peace.
speaking on behalf of all those who've had a parent die of cancer, FUCK OFF. do you realize how idiotic you sound?! My father passed away from a brain tumor. He was also an imunologist trying to cure various forms of cancer. So don't even try and equate someone getting sick by a freak coincidence, and others poisoning their bodies, and those around them. You wanna smoke? go ahead, but don't spit forth this revisionist GARBAGE. I don't know if you're just trying to insight something or if you're really as dumb and stubborn as you come off, but frankly, it's just insulting. Regardless what you might think, there's EMPIRICAL data that shows smoking is FATAL. Get a fucking education and stop coming up with ridiculous conspiracy theories. :evil:
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Originally posted by schmoron13:

Originally posted by djwayne:

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

I place this this entire discussion on the same level as supporting the ancient sport of boxing - a sport where the purpose is to hit your opponent in the head and knock him out.

 

Millions of years of evolution and this is where we still are? You guys are defending the right to shorten your lives by knowingly and willfully inhaling pollutants. JFC, get a life.

I place this whole discussion on the same level as arguing with childish nerds, who don't get their way, and have to resort to insulting any smoker out there with years of propaganda. This war has been going for years. If I believed all the baloney people say about smoking, I should have been dead 25 years ago. The sad reality is, many forms of cancer are hereditary, and many people who have never smoked, still get cancer and die. Deal with it, we're all gonna die someday, of something, and in today's world, I'm surprised I've made it this long. Many people haven't. Try arguing for world peace.
speaking on behalf of all those who've had a parent die of cancer, FUCK OFF. do you realize how idiotic you sound?! My father passed away from a brain tumor. He was also an imunologist trying to cure various forms of cancer. So don't even try and equate someone getting sick by a freak coincidence, and others poisoning their bodies, and those around them. You wanna smoke? go ahead, but don't spit forth this revisionist GARBAGE. I don't know if you're just trying to insight something or if you're really as dumb and stubborn as you come off, but frankly, it's just insulting. Regardless what you might think, there's EMPIRICAL data that shows smoking is FATAL. Get a fucking education and stop coming up with ridiculous conspiracy theories. :evil:
Sorry about your parent, but the reality is, people get sick and die everyday. It's easy to blame it on smoking, but there are many causes that we've just begun learning about. My entire family is subject to herediatry colon cancer, a few of them, never smoked. A lot of it has to do with the foods you eat. Some people are more sensitive than others. Some have built up a resistance. Even though tons of money as been spent on research, there's still many unanswered questions. Upon my last visit to a doctor, he inquired if I was having any difficulty with my lungs or breathing, I said no, and he seemed disappointed in that. Sorry, but I think it's a good idea to question authority, and not believe everything I hear.

Living' in the shadow,

of someone else's dream....

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Here's something I posted over in Craig's forum:

 

"My mom and dad both smoked the whole time I was growing up. I never knew any different. All us kids would bug them to stop, but they wouldn't hear of it.

 

My mom was having heart problems about 10 years ago and quit cold turkey.

 

My dad kept smoking. Last year, his breathing and coughing had become so bad that he finally went to the Doctor (which he almost never does). He has lung disease. He finally stopped. He goes to resperatory (sp?) therapy 3 times a week now, and will soon graduate to more physical therapy.

 

He doesn't cough like he used to, but he always has oxygen available (at home, in the car, on his boat - even cuts his yard on a riding mower with oxygen), and he is easily winded by even the most common activities.

 

Sometimes he suggests that we could send our sons for him to watch. Unfortunately, he couldn't keep up with his grandkids (ages 3 and 6) no matter how he tried. Maybe someday if his breathing improves, which I hope it can...

 

Really sad ... smoking sucks. I'm really glad I never started, and I hope my kids never do."

 

djwayne, funny how people choose what propaganda to believe. Lots of conspiracy theories around these forums - but as evil as our government has appeared at times, I believe the tobacco companies have been even more evil.

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schmoran, are you really surprised by all of this? djwayne spent a fair amount of energy defending the right to be illiterate, why should he respond any differently to the smoking issue? This is a 'global' issue for him. He no doubt will defend boxing as a valid sport as well as the right to drink red wine with fish ... well, OK, I've done that on occasion, I take that one back. (Pepsi with meat, 7Up with fish, OK, OK.)

 

I once saw a documentary on the BBC (I believe) about obese folks who defended their way of life and the fact that they are discriminated against. These folks insisted they be allowed the same job opportunities as the rest of society. Obese stewardesses, obese firemen, anyone?

 

I just had a horrible thought, what if there really is a God and He punishes me by sending me to Hell and I have to spend eternity in a sports car with an illiterate, obese, smoking DJ.

 

On a lighter note (no pun intended), I will spend some time this weekend test riding various recumbents in a nearby city. I'm looking forward to this .... fresh air, exercise ... everything that's bad for you.

 

I should start a thread on why people with the worst taste in music always play their music the loudest. A portable battery operated degausser .... that's the answer I'm looking for.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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I give up. You've obviously built up a wonderfull conspiracy wherein the entire media and scientific community is hell bent of stopping something as innocent as smoking. I could sit here and type for the next week, trying to convince you that smoking is unhealthy, disgusting, rude, expensive,etc. but what's the point?
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Originally posted by felix.:

Here's something I posted over in Craig's forum:

 

"My mom and dad both smoked the whole time I was growing up. I never knew any different. All us kids would bug them to stop, but they wouldn't hear of it.

 

My mom was having heart problems about 10 years ago and quit cold turkey.

 

My dad kept smoking. Last year, his breathing and coughing had become so bad that he finally went to the Doctor (which he almost never does). He has lung disease. He finally stopped. He goes to resperatory (sp?) therapy 3 times a week now, and will soon graduate to more physical therapy.

 

He doesn't cough like he used to, but he always has oxygen available (at home, in the car, on his boat - even cuts his yard on a riding mower with oxygen), and he is easily winded by even the most common activities.

 

Sometimes he suggests that we could send our sons for him to watch. Unfortunately, he couldn't keep up with his grandkids (ages 3 and 6) no matter how he tried. Maybe someday if his breathing improves, which I hope it can...

 

Really sad ... smoking sucks. I'm really glad I never started, and I hope my kids never do."

 

djwayne, funny how people choose what propaganda to believe. Lots of conspiracy theories around these forums - but as evil as our government has appeared at times, I believe the tobacco companies have been even more evil.

I'm sorry to hear about your Dad's condition, but I've got a story that's even worse, a nieghbor friend of my sister, that I grew up with who did smoke, got cancer and died about 15 years ago. She was only in her thirties, She smoked on and off lightly, but the cancer killed her. Cancer is a terrible thing, and smoking is a bad habit, but some people are used to it, and have no problem with it. Even though the two have been link, smoking isn't always the cause. Even radiation from the sun can cause cancer. Even the factory down the road from your house can do it. I've also heard even radiation from cement gives off cancer causing radiation.

 

Maybe I should sue the airlines for flying over my house. Happens everyday, but my life is at risk so some airline company can make a profit, and I have to just deal with it.

Living' in the shadow,

of someone else's dream....

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Quitting smoking takes three major accomplishments:

 

1. Taking responsibility about one's behavior in a truthful way

 

2. Raw courage

 

3. Perseverance

 

I have seen my wife go through this process and I can tell everyone that it's a battle of maturity as well.

 

All these actions are characteristics that build self esteem.

 

For all those smokers who have posted denying any smoking health risks, please read my earlier post and the answer these questions:

 

How many smoking deaths and how much suffering of the surrounding family members does it take to convince you that there are risks to yourself and anyone near you as you violate their health?

 

Will you wait to make a lifestyle change until your own doctor tells you to stop?

 

What are you going to do when the doctor tells your relatives "I'm sorry. All we can do is make him comfortable to the end (mostly by morphine drip)?

 

Having been a relative or a friend in this exact situation, I can tell you that it's not impossible for this to happen and the emotion that immediately occurred was one of un resolvable, heart sick pain and loss.

 

Knowing that this can be prevented is why I am an advocate of helping people to quit and taking tobacco companies out of existence.

 

Just look at this thread and count how many people are for or against. The non-smokers are in the overwhelming majority.

 

Another point is that I never changed the subject in my last post. I only spoke about the subject of smoking and the law pertaining to smoking.

 

It is a common ploy for those trying to debate an issue to misdirect the subject to something altogether different to take the heat off of themselves and not give a straight forward, honest answer to the last statement or question. People usually learn this behavior at about 5 - 6 years old during sibling rivalry. I never said anything about homosexuality and its consequences once. That's a different subject and has no correlation to the subject of smoking that I know of. Please do not associate any viewpoint of your own as being the result of something I never said.

 

Finally (going back to the subject matter), I have asked many smokers the following question:

 

When did you start smoking?

 

The answer seems to have an overwhelming similarity between everyone I have asked. (At least 100 to 150 people). Everyone put the starting age between 12 to 19 years of age. I think the most given answer was 16 years old.

 

I then asked these same people: Why did you start. The two most common answers were "I don't know" and "I wish I hadn't". I believe these people certainly remember the original circumstances, but do not care to recall the reasons because that would begin an open debate they could not continue without being completely honest with themselves. Other answers from more honest people included, "My dad told me not to" or "I wanted people to view me as an adult" or "all my friends were doing it".

 

All these people started during the time in one's life when (as teenagers) we all were desperately trying to get others to notice how much we had changed and how adult we had become. I don't think that many people would deny that your teens are a emotionally trying time when wants and needs are not only changing, but rarely satisfied. As teens, we could never stand the thought of our parents thinking of us as "little" kids anymore.

 

I truly believe that one of the common truths about why people begin to smoke and why it happens between the ages of 12 to 19 is because teens know when their parents and their friends see them smoke, then its impossible to view them as a child. This seems to be a risk young people will take at this age. Even at twelve years old, a child understand that smoking is very harmful to one's health and makes a judgement call when he/she begins to smoke.

 

Another commonality with the smokers who were willing to talk about the reason they started was that they all believed (very naively) that they could stop any time they wanted to. ANYTIME.

 

But I think even the most determined smoker will also tell you the it's an addiction that has it's mental and physical consequences as you withdrawal from smoking.

 

The tobacco companies know this scenario backwards and forwards. They have studied every possible way to get people to get started. They know the average age that people start and they want to get you to think about it at a young age.

 

What images do they unleash on their potential customers (knowing that 10 year olds are watching others smoke)? A cartoon camel for one. Don't tell me that Joe Camel is not a animated cartoon like kids watch every afternoon. They don't show a real camel with a cigarette in it's mouth. If Joe camel goes away, they will simply replace it with another cartoon. Second image: Cowboy in a healthy setting of clean, snowcapped mountains and fresh oxygenated air from all the surrounding tress. This is such irony. There is nothing healthful, fresh or clean about smoking. The opposite is true. If not, this thread would never have began and no musician would have to worrying about playing any room or venue. Most young boys identify with the image of a cowboy. Third image: Sexy female choosing man as sex partner because he smokes (sometimes man choosing woman). If this isn't ironic. Cigarette do not get people laid. In fact, I can't tell you what a turn-off it is to see an attractive woman light up. For me, smoking could be called an effective method of birth control.

 

What do you call a company who uses cartoons, cowboys and/or sex to try to get a 10 year old to think about taking a major risk with their health?

 

This is exactly why I have no sympathy for tobacco execs who lie to the public. They have traded profit for the lives of other people. They have no agenda to change this policy.

 

My only goal in entering this thread is to rationally discuss this issue and encourage people to be honest. If I have inspired any smoker to reduce his/her smoking by even one puff, the time was well spent.

 

Larry Hopkins

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Well I think if someone can smoke tobacco in a public bar then someone else should be able to light up a joint- then where would we be? Smoking is smoking. I don't shove my smoking 'habits' down others' throats, why should I have to submit to theirs??? ^___^ You decide which I prefer.... and no, I don't enjoy both. Ever seen anyone save their butt of a cigarette for later?

 

Heheh!

"The circle represents completion."
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Originally posted by Dave Horne:

I just had a horrible thought, what if there really is a God and He punishes me by sending me to Hell and I have to spend eternity in a sports car with an illiterate, obese, smoking DJ.

LOL!

 

On a more serious note, like stated above, if smoking wasn´t a health risk we wouldn´t be having this thread at all. I wouldn´t equate the genetical risk of getting colon cancer (ok, I don´t know how you smoke ;) ) with making the choice to inhale nerve stimulating substances that may be hazardous to your health. Most important for me is that we non-smokers don´t have a choice - as soon as we´re in a room with one or more smokers, we smoke too. For those of us who have seen relatives suffer from smoking, it´s really bothering. Smokers, if your addiction of chioce didn´t affect me physiologically I´d be fine with it. Try some Swedish snuff instead, basically the same content as a cigarette, but instead of smoking it you place it under your upper lipp. :idea:

 

/J :freak: nas

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Don't worry Dave, the feelings are mutual, spending any time at all with an annoying jerk like you is a waste. And with regards to music, I do read to a point, but I don't use music sheets as a crutch while playing, I take the time to practice, so I usually know the song from memory. People who depend on written music have the disability.

 

Good luck promoting your propaganda, I came here to talk about keyboards and stuff, too bad you guys can't stay on topic, and decided to make personal attacks.

 

CYA

Living' in the shadow,

of someone else's dream....

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Originally posted by djwayne:

Don't worry Dave, the feelings are mutual, spending any time at all with an annoying jerk like you is a waste. And with regards to music, I do read to a point, but I don't use music sheets as a crutch while playing, I take the time to practice, so I usually know the song from memory. People who depend on written music have the disability.

 

Good luck promoting your propaganda, I came here to talk about keyboards and stuff, too bad you guys can't stay on topic, and decided to make personal attacks.

 

CYA

djwayne, that wasn't a personal attack on you, .... unless of course, you are a illiterate, obese, smoking DJ.

 

That does it, dueling pianos at ten yards. You pick your tunes, and I'll pick mine. May the best man win. On your mark, get set ....

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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.... one more thing,

 

djwayne, I can entertain for hours without using sheet music, just as I am sure you can entertain for hours without the benefit of using someone else's music and the benefit of technology.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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Originally posted by Dave Horne:

.... one more thing,

 

djwayne, I can entertain for hours without using sheet music, just as I am sure you can entertain for hours without the benefit of using someone else's music and the benefit of technology.

It's no problem Dave, I did an acoustic solo thing, playing 4 hour shows of 90% original material. I don't view playing other writers music as a bad thing, nor do I view playing electronic instruments as a bad thing, nor do I view dj'ing as a bad thing. Guess I'm just not a pompous purist like you. Thank God !!!

Living' in the shadow,

of someone else's dream....

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And I'm just a nonsmoking, pompous defender of other people's rights :)

 

I'm willing to make my arguments intellectually honest. To wit:

a) smoking has been proved incredibly detrimental to one's health. Deadly, in fact.

b) secondhand smoke, on a regular basis, is also very harmful.

c) Nicotine makes cigarettes addictive.

d) smoking is a dirty, disgusting habit which I don't tolerate in my own house.

e) It would be better for all concerned (except tobacco farmers & marketers - and possibly bar owners) if everyone in the world gave up this habit.

 

HOWEVER.................

 

a) Smoking is still a legal activity.

b) Given that most other public enclosed spaces are no-smoking environments, it is utterly preposterous to deny smokers that last refuge. All of us are free to choose to not enter a smoky bar.

c) Denying individuals the right to participate in or establish a venue for LEGAL activity continues a well-intentioned but misguided path of denying individual rights in the name of safety/security. What's the saying??... "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

 

Just a few silly analogies to enhance my argument:

a) I wonder how many vehement nonsmokers willingly enter auto-racing establishments. Ever been to a racetrack, or to an indoor monster truck expo? The fumes are waaaay beyond what you encounter in a bar. Perhaps we should find a way to make all auto racing zero-emissions activity. After all, it's for the good of the fans and pit crews.

b) One of the dirty little secrets of urban life is steel dust in underground transit systems. Those subway train wheels constantly grind against the tracks, and whenever they move at speed they kick up all that dust. And you inhale it all the way to work, and back home. But we've deemed it an acceptable hazard since it gets people to work - perhaps we ought close down the subways to remove the obvious health risk?

c) Many cities have a number of 'smog alert' days - days where the concentration of pollutants is so strong it poses a health hazard. Yet not one of those cities tells its employees not to come in that day in the name of employee health.

 

I've already discussed blacklung and other workers' health issues. With a little research, I could easily come up with a bunch more. Bottom line: THE "EMPLOYEE HEALTH" REASONING FOR DISALLOWING SMOKING IN BARS IS INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST. It is a cover for a moral crusade against smoking. And as we've seen again and again, moral crusades which rely on such dishonesty ain't worth spit. Are any of you who employ such reasoning also against Bush's lies about WMDs in Iraq? Well guess what? You're using the same techniques. "Oh, but OUR dishonesty is acceptable because it's saving lives." Yep, that's what every single damn oppressor claims - "the end justifies the means, and it's for YOUR OWN GOOD." As I've said previously, were it really a health issue it would be addressed by OSHA via filtration and ventilation requirements. It's a MORAL issue, and by lying about that fact you advance your cause but undermine your personal credibility and morality.

 

Oh, one other thing. The level of drinking normally associated with bars is unhealthy... so perhaps the smoke is actually *good* for you, since it keeps you out of bars? :D

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

This ain't no track meet; this is football.

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It's all a matter of opinion. I used to work in a large factory setting, and one guy had such a problem he felt he had to wear a filter mask all day. Smoke wasn't the problem, he was constantly complaining about dust particles. The truth was, it was a very clean atmosphere, and he was really over reacting, to a very minor thing, but was completely paranoid of it. The building had a wood block floor, and eventially the EPA told the management that the wood blocks contained some cancer causing substances, and management had to replace the entire floor with concrete, at a huge cost. Even though the floor was there for 50+ years, now all of a sudden it was a big problem. They replaced the floor, throwing lots of dust into the air. Within a year later, the place shut down, and everybody got laid off, throwing about 7-800 people out of work, and still sits empty to this day, with a sparkling new concrete floor.

Living' in the shadow,

of someone else's dream....

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It's been my experience with non smokers that they expect free recording time, they want my studio to become smoke free, and even complain when I ask them to pay for recording tape. They've expected the world to be handed to them, because they can play a few chords and sing a few notes.

 

Sorry to hear of your problems with smoking, but if you can't handle it in a studio, what are you gonna do in a club situation ?? I worked with a guy like that, and he refused to play clubs, after awhile he refused to play anywhere, and all our practice time was wasted. He's a great guy, but he can not handle smoke, nor can he handle playing out. Why does he even bother pretending to be a musician....[/QB]

There's been some pretty stupid shit said in this thread, but this takes the cake. If he doesn't like smoke he shouldn't "pretend to be" a musician? That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

 

Also, your assertion that pretentious, arrogant assholes are the way they are because of the fact they don't smoke is asinine.

 

In short, you seem like a total fool.

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Originally posted by jiffyfeet:

It's been my experience with non smokers that they expect free recording time, they want my studio to become smoke free, and even complain when I ask them to pay for recording tape. They've expected the world to be handed to them, because they can play a few chords and sing a few notes.

 

Sorry to hear of your problems with smoking, but if you can't handle it in a studio, what are you gonna do in a club situation ?? I worked with a guy like that, and he refused to play clubs, after awhile he refused to play anywhere, and all our practice time was wasted. He's a great guy, but he can not handle smoke, nor can he handle playing out. Why does he even bother pretending to be a musician....

There's been some pretty stupid shit said in this thread, but this takes the cake. If he doesn't like smoke he shouldn't "pretend to be" a musician? That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

 

Also, your assertion that pretentious, arrogant assholes are the way they are because of the fact they don't smoke is asinine.

 

In short, you seem like a total fool.[/QB]

Hey Jiffyfeet, drop dead. You obviously can't comprehend anything. The guy wouldn't play in public, because of his non-smoking attitude, what's the point, in pretending he ever would.

 

He was just a big waste of time, as were the other non-smokers, I've had the displeasure to work with. All kinds of big plans, demanding this, demanding that, then when it came time to perform, nothing. Granted every person is different, but that has been my experience, they seem to blow more smoke than anybody, and they don't need cigarettes to do it.

Living' in the shadow,

of someone else's dream....

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