mooghead Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Hi everybody! A few months ago I started a quite successful thread, "The role of keyboards playing live" regarding which original parts keys should cover live and which should be to the player's taste... Well, let's combine this topic with GAS... My live rig now consists of a Studiologic SL-880 + a Sl-161 merged through a MidiMan 2x2 and driving a stock Triton Rack and a Yamaha CS-6R with piano and VL expansion (with breath controller). You'll say...why shouldn't you be completely satisfied? Let's go back for a while: I have two bands and a third coming... the first plays rock classics from the '50s to the '80s, rock, pop, prog, blues,...much variety needed, and my present rig efficiently deliver all the variety needed; my rig is always set in our own studio, and considering the quantity of cables, adapters and so on it stays there...cons of the rig are time spent programming and, apart from VL sounds I have quality sounds but not top-notch...I would happily sacrifice some variety to have huge sound and to compel myself to "play" instead of choosing the right patch... the second band plays jazz standards and fusion own compositions; we play in my house with my Yamaha grand so I got incredible quality (no Giga, RealPiano or Triple Strike can touch my 6"), but not much variety for fusion and for practicing non-piano sounds (organ, clavs, leads...oops I forgot I have a Prophecy at home!) the third band will be a Blues Brothers tribute band (we're looking for a bass player, we already have the other necessary players). We we'll play in a rent room since our studio is too small for 10-11 people. I don't have an instrument for this band. Now...(if you had the patience to read down here you're great ) How do you see this plan? I sell everything except: my grand of course, SL-161 (it's so cheap it wouldn't help me in buying new gear), Yamaha PF and VL expansions and BC. I buy: a Yamaha S-80/90 (are S-80s still available new?) with which I can use PF (not needed with S700 sample), VL and BC, a Nord Electro 73, a VA (maybe one easier to use than the Prophecy and poliphonic) and a Roland keyboard amplifier. Finally your valuable opinion, my dear pros who has so much experience in what is practical and what is not... Rock band: S-80/90 always in the studio (moving it once a month for gigging), Electro on top of it and VA on the right. SL-161 could be put on the left to drive additional sounds from two of three main keyboards, but 4 would probably be too much...in any case it will stay available to get a double manual hammond from the Electro. Not many splits to program, not many midi cables, not many adapters (except for SL-161), I would loose Triton sounds in favor of a dedicated Hammond clone and a VA, what I wouldn't have are orchestral combis which rule on the Triton After rehersals I can easily pick up without too many hassles the lightweight Electro and, if I feel like the VA. Jazz-Fusion band: I can use Hammond, Clavi, Rhodes from the Electro (and the VA if I bring it home) on the Roland amp. The rest of the week I can program patches on the VA or become more fluent with Hammond and Clavi languages... I take the Electro to the rent studio for the Blues band... Blues band: the Electro 73 is all I need since we'll have a full brass section Will all this be practical? Assuming the player should be good on everything or suck on everything would I encounter versatility problems? I will definitely spend more than I can get from the Triton, the CS-6R, the SL-880 and the Prophecy (well, it depends on whether I buy the S80 or the S90 and which VA...), but...DO YOU THINK IT'S WORTH? ALL THIS BUY AND SELL? or ALL I NEED IS AN ELECTRO 73 AND A ROLAND AMP FOR THE JAZZ AND BLUES BAND, AND STAY WITH MY PRESENT RIG FOR THE ROCK BAND? but moreover "YOU'VE SPENT TOO MUCH TIME WITH SINTH AND SAMPLERS WHEN YOU WRITE A POST LIKE THIS" Thank you all, ciao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Sounds like your basic problem is moving stuff when you need to. There's only one way to work that out and that is to do it a few times and work on simplifying. A big problem is the number of chords a setup requires. Try bundling all your cables so that connecting up is fast. Duplicate your stands and cables so all you need to take from your studio rig is the boards themselves. I would not even think about changing your gear until you have what you already own shaken out for gigging. That way you will know exactly what the problems are and you will be able to focus on fixing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I have a cabling diagram taped on the deck of my MK80. And each time I get new gear, I update that diagram. The latest (and probably last) addition is the Kurzweil ExpressionMate, which eliminates the "choose a patch" problem as it sends program change on up to three different MIDI channels. So I pre-program all the patches I may want for a particular tune. And with the diagram, setup only takes as long as it takes to physically move the various keyboards into place - then I look at the diagram and all MIDI cables are done within a minute. The ExpMate sends MIDI volume control if you want, so you can make appropriate volume changes to ALL keys/modules (except the Hammond) mid-song with the push of a button.... If done well, MIDI can truly simplify your life! I'd not be too quick to make wholesale changes to your rig; see if you can think of ways to make what you have work for you. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Originally posted by Byrdman: Sounds like your basic problem is moving stuff when you need to. There's only one way to work that out and that is to do it a few times and work on simplifying. A big problem is the number of chords a setup requires. Try bundling all your cables so that connecting up is fast. Duplicate your stands and cables so all you need to take from your studio rig is the boards themselves. I would not even think about changing your gear until you have what you already own shaken out for gigging. That way you will know exactly what the problems are and you will be able to focus on fixing them.Listen to the Byrdman, he's speaking the gospel truth. Seriously, I completely agree with the idea that moving your rig requires a systems that's well though-out. And until you define the problems with mobility, fixing them will be difficult. However, the rigs you proposed sound great. --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooghead Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 Well I wanted to have double stands, double jacks, double pedals, wires...but still I wonder if it's not better let's say a NE73 and a NL3 and say goodbye to all the bell and whistles of romplers (brass, strings, orchestral hits...) Thank you for your comments. I think I will also wait to try the new Roland performance keyboard...heavier than the Clavia but multitimbral, that's a huge difference, a master keyboard for each studio and moving the instrument only...with not many cables... Ciao,Mooghead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konaboy Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I play in a 10 piece soul band also with full horn section. We play a lot of Blues Brothers (too much!) and Commitments type music. The NE73 is my one and only board. Works great for our enture set (about 3 hrs). THe NE73 acoustic piano is still a bit weak but I usually use Rhodes or organ instead. I don't worry about using exactly the same sounds as the original. The band don't complain either, in fact on the contrary, they love it when I use the funky Electro mega-clavinet. Go for it! I found the NE sounded a bit thin and lifeless when I demoed it in the shop but it's a completely different animal through a good PA. hang out with me at woody piano shack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooghead Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 Since I'll use it as an organ sim in a band and as a rhodes mainly in the other and I will move it a lot...do you suggest the NE61 or the NE73? Octaves vs portability, an octave is worth 4 kg.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Definitely get the 73. It is only a couple of pounds heavier (20 vs. 17) and a little bit longer, but it has a very small profile. You need those extra keys for EP sounds. Similar to another poster, I am in love with the Electro 73 v2.0. My current rig includes that with a big Roland RD600 and a Nord Lead 1 when I have room for 3 keyboards on stage. This weekend I am "piloting" a rig which will be only the Electro and the Lead. I'm not enamored with the Electro's acoustic piano, but it is ok in a mix. I'm looking forward to the opportunity to slim down the gear a little bit. I have a similar issue regarding multiple bands. The main band I play with is a 10-piece 70's band with horns. I like the 3-keyboard rig, but can probably get by with just the 2 as mentioned above. I also play with a couple of original groups, and could possibly do those gigs with just the Electro and the RD600 is an extra bonus if I feel like lugging it. Then I'm in a "smooth jazz" group that only requires the RD and Electro. I have multiple stands, amps, cables and pedals so it is possible to grab one configuration for one gig, another config for rehearsal and then yet another for the next gig. I dislike mingling my gig cables for rehearsal, because there's that risk of leaving something behind and then not having it on the gig. Therefore, I have many redundancies in every portion of my rig. Get the Electro--you will love it. I may upgrade my Lead 1 to a Lead 3 if I find that I am using the smaller rig a lot. The other thing I would like is a Nord Rack to use with the RD/Electro rig, since I am pretty sold on having the 88-note weighted keyboard available at all gigs. It is just a really heavy and large piece of gear. Regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooghead Posted January 30, 2003 Author Share Posted January 30, 2003 Originally posted by eric: . Get the Electro--you will love it. I may upgrade my Lead 1 to a Lead 3 if I find that I am using the smaller rig a lot. Regards, EricWe're telephatic...right today I was thinking about a really small rig: the NE73 and NL3, with maybe only a SL161 to drive something more from the NL3 and play lower organ without losing the NL3 keyboard... killer rhodes, killer wurli, clav, organ, and sinth mayhem! Everything really compact and portable... I don't think my rock band mates would agree, too used to all those gimmicks, orchestral sounds, virtual sax or flute, bread and butter, special effects... Or even more radical with the two Nords only without the Studiologic... And then the look of the Nords... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konaboy Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Originally posted by mooghead: Originally posted by eric: [qb]. I don't think my rock band mates would agree, too used to all those gimmicks, orchestral sounds, virtual sax or flute, bread and butter, special effects... Or even more radical with the two Nords only without the Studiologic... And then the look of the Nords... They'd love it! The NL cuts through the live band mix more than any other keyboard I've ever owned. You will bring a smile to their faces with wicked filter sweeps. The NL is capable of creating killer flutes and trippy synthetic saxes which cut through much better and are way cooler than cheesy ROMpler samples. I'd rather play a biting portameto synthlead or funky filtered synthbrass than use 's weak saxophone or brass samples. And as for special FX, well, watch out you don't nuke your PA speakers... The NL3 will also meke a great controller for the lower manual on the Electro organ. hang out with me at woody piano shack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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