Am I crazy or does the Triton bank of piano sounds leave much to be desired?s

[Blues Disciple]

I was working on a solo piano ballad-style song last night on our church's Triton studio and it took me a good thirty minutes to find a piano sound that I thought was halfway decent for the song. It just seemed to me that the sustain on the regular piano sound sucked, the bass was too strong for all the pianos, and overall all the piano sounds were disappointing. I eventually settled on a sound, but it still isn't the ideal piano sound I was hoping for.

 

I kinda have the same opinions on the Hammond bank of sounds too. I have heard better. The sounds are either strange (i.e "old tubes", or just a little off center of what the real thing sounds like on CD's, etc.) The only organ sounds I think that are decent are the "warm bars" and the one with the piano and organ blended together for gospel sounds...maybe a few others too. Overall I didn't find much I liked and would use in place of the original Hammond. I will admit though that the brass, strings and clavinet and most other sounds kick butt though.

 

Does anyone else think the Triton is lacking when it comes to piano and organ sounds? Or was it just me? (might have been working on it too late last night to make a good judgement)

 

BD

[Dave Horne]

I've said this before and I'm saying it again ... It's rather doubtful that any keyboard will have a piano sound that sounds really great.

 

These keyboards only have so much memory assigned and a decent piano sound requires more than what the typical keyboard has. The same thing goes for most modules. The piano sample I use on jobs is 60+ megs which is considerably more than the memory alloted for the piano sound on most keyboards (which is probably 8 or 12 megs compressed).

 

If you want a decent piano sound you'll simply have to buy a sampler and a CD ROM, period.

 

I used the Korg O1W/Pro X for several years and it sounded great in the store. I was disappointed in no time once I used it on jobs.

 

I now use a midi controller and a sampler and will never buy another keyboard, I'll just buy another CD ROM with more sounds.

 

A piano sound, unlike most other sounds, really requires a great deal of memory. You're dealing with 88 notes at several velocities ... that takes memory and almost _no_ keyboard will have that kind of memory required.

 

I only wish I would have bought a sampler many years ago instead of several years ago. My two cents. DH

[DougSt.Louis]

The Yamaha S80 and S90- Best piano sound on the market. These boards are absolutely fantastic.

 

Listen for Yourself

S80

[The T Dot]

Go to www.irishacts.com, under the download section, get the EXBPCM08 piano, and Sharp's 64 MB piano. They are much better than the stock Triton piano sounds.

[Tedly Nightshade]

The giga sampler pianos are not significantly better- neither is remotely close to a piano, that wonderful percussion instrument.

I didn't expect any of the Triton piano sounds to be worth a damn, and they weren't. There were a couple just about useable organ tones, as you noted. It's not just you!

[Dr Teeth]

I think pianos on triton are really bad. I like most my 01/W pianos... well i don have it anymore. But i think the best pianos on the market are kurzweil's samples.-

[Dave Horne]

Here is a link for the 64 meg piano sample for the Triton. Well, maybe you don't have to buy a sampler for a fat piano sample after all.

 

http://www.paxtani.com/triton/64mbpiano.htm

 

Good luck, DH

[Bobro]

Don't confuse "going crazy" with "not having your head up your ass". Korg has gone out of their way to make piano patches that suck neon pudenda; Yamaha for all their mass-market approach has done overall a pretty darn job with pianos at all levels/markets. Maybe because they make pianos in real life, I don't know.

 

Anyway it's my opinion, but somehow I doubt I'm alone in this assessment.

 

-Bobro

[schmoron13]

Here's a thought:

 

If you guys are such audiophiles and nothing comes close to a REAL piano sound, then guess what? USE A REAL PIANO...same thing for organ modules. I don't understand why someone needs that authentic sound? If you're gigging, I can pretty much tell you, that even if it sounds like a real piano, B3, etc...they can still see a keyboard on stage and thus the experience is lost. If you're recording and need that high quality sound, just go to a studio that has said instruments...it'll be much cheaper than spending GERRRR on modules that sound horrible (supposed)

[Dave Horne]

The best sampled piano I have ever heard is the Yamaha GranTouch piano. This is a hybrid piano - a real action from a 6 foot Yamaha and a sample from their best piano.

 

I own one. The bad news is, as far as I know, you can not buy the sample _without_ the piano. I bought my GT1 over here (the Netherlands) and the price is better in the US I'm certain. I'm guessing the price is in the neighborhood of $5,000 - 6,000.

 

If Yamaha incorporates that sample into one of their modules, I am not aware of it.

 

Any Yamaha techs following this thread who can shed more light on that sample?

 

(By the way, according to the literature that came with my piano, that sample is 30 megs. I have no idea if that is a compressed 30 megs or not.)

 

On jobs I use Wm Coakley's Perfect Piano Vol 3 - the EN1 sample which is 60+ megs and is pretty good. The Yamaha sample, for my taste, is better.

 

Incidentally, I traded in a six footer (Yamaha) for this GranTouch1 hybrid. I suffer from tinnitus and now I can play as hard as I want and simply turn down the volumn to protect my ears from even more damage.

 

DH

[Blues Disciple]

Fellas,

 

Thanks for your responses. I haven't messed with the Triton much since we got it (the other keys player uses it) and I was surprised by the sounds. I am glad it wasn't me or my ears.

 

I fully agree with you schmoron. If I was recording the song, I would use a real piano. As for the organ I am actively searching for a real B3 as I use mostly organ sounds live (would use a real B3 for recording too). This thread started due to the fact that I am playing an original song solo with a piano "sound" for the song and my church does not have an acoustic grand piano (or I would be using it). And the Triton sounds are disappointing for this application.

 

As for playing live in a band setting, I would settle for a keyboard-based piano and would sacrifice the "visual" image as opposed to hauling a 2-ton piano along. Plus, in the band format, the nuances of a real piano can get easily lost and buried under drums, guitars, bass, etc. But alas as I am an organist at heart I need those two manuals and drawbars to play live and cut through the rest to give the right effect and for me, in that case, only a real B3/Hammond will do the trick. (Personally it does make a difference to me if I see someone playing a real B3 live compared to someone playing a clone).

 

To me the Triton piano sounds are disappointing especially when playing them in a solo arrangement. (and especially considering the price of the thing!)

 

Thanks again for the responses!

 

BD

[Bobro]

Originally posted by schmoron13:

Here's a thought:

 

If you guys are such audiophiles and nothing comes close to a REAL piano sound, then guess what? USE A REAL PIANO...same thing for organ modules. I don't understand why someone needs that authentic sound? If you're gigging, I can pretty much tell you, that even if it sounds like a real piano, B3, etc...they can still see a keyboard on stage and thus the experience is lost. If you're recording and need that high quality sound, just go to a studio that has said instruments...it'll be much cheaper than spending GERRRR on modules that sound horrible (supposed)

No shit, Sherlock. We had this discussion some time ago- if I'm not mistaken, the consensus was, most have us own or have owned or have extensively used a real piano and know the deal- it's a matter of professional practicality.

 

-Bobro

[Steve LeBlanc]

I don't like any of the Triton sounds.

[coyote]

Don't overlook the A-10x Hammonds. My A100 is almost 100lb lighter than a B3, it's four inches shallower AND it's less fragile. Not to mention you'll likely find one in better condition AND much cheaper than a B3.

 

Originally posted by Blues Disciple:

I fully agree with you schmoron. If I was recording the song, I would use a real piano. As for the organ I am actively searching for a real B3 as I use mostly organ sounds live (would use a real B3 for recording too).

BD

[bearded yeti]

It sounds to me like someone is too lazy to edit a sound. Did you know that simply editing a preset can make it sound incredibly different? You don't even have to do this much work, just do a little research and you'll find many other piano sounds on the net. What's the point of using a synth if you only use stock programs?

 

I'll agree that the A001 preset piano sucks, but there are newer piano programs from both Korg and from Triton users that are available for download. Most of these use the internal ROM, and you don't even have to bother with sample loading. If you are too lazy to download or load samples, you can always buy the new EXB08 expansion card from Korg, which is a beautiful 16 megabyte Bosendorfer Grand. I have this expansion and it blows all of the Yamaha pianos away.

 

It seems to be very trendy for everyone to profess their distaste with the Triton sounds, but I'll bet not a single one of you has tried any other than the factory loaded pianos.

[Steve LeBlanc]

Originally posted by DM:

It sounds to me like someone is too lazy to edit a sound. Did you know that simply editing a preset can make it sound incredibly different? You don't even have to do this much work, just do a little research and you'll find many other piano sounds on the net. What's the point of using a synth if you only use stock programs?

 

I'll agree that the A001 preset piano sucks, but there are newer piano programs from both Korg and from Triton users that are available for download. Most of these use the internal ROM, and you don't even have to bother with sample loading. If you are too lazy to download or load samples, you can always buy the new EXB08 expansion card from Korg, which is a beautiful 16 megabyte Bosendorfer Grand. I have this expansion and it blows all of the Yamaha pianos away.

 

It seems to be very trendy for everyone to profess their distaste with the Triton sounds, but I'll bet not a single one of you has tried any other than the factory loaded pianos.

Actually it sounds like you are the one talking from personal experience...I've almost never used a factory preset on a synth without altering it in some way.

 

If I were forced to use a Triton all the time, I would edit patches to make it sound as little like a Triton as possible. But poking around inside the thing for hours at a time isn't going to change the fact that the synth isn't pleasing to my ears.

 

I'm glad you like your Triton. I'm glad I don't have to use one.

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by Chris100:

Go to www.irishacts.com, under the download section, get the EXBPCM08 piano, and Sharp's 64 MB piano. They are much better than the stock Triton piano sounds.

I can't find a 64mb piano sample on the irishacts site. What's it called?

[bearded yeti]

Steve could you please make your avatar picture bigger? I may be missing important details.

[coyote]

I don't own a Triton, so take what I'm about to say as about synths in general. And my usage of 'you' is general, not personal.

 

A synth *has* to have good presets nowadays. Why else would you buy it? Can you sit in a store and go through submenu hell for hours just to prove to yourself that the synth might have some potential? Or do you go strictly by the magazine reviews or word of mouth?

 

For me to consider purchasing a synth, there are many criteria (not neccessarily in order of importance):

a) price (self-explanatory)

b) user interface. It has to be logically laid out, and natural to quickly change sounds. It has to be easy to play and, in the case of analog-style synths, easy to manipulate.

c) The sounds! There have to be some compelling sounds preconfigured onboard. In the case of 88-key weighted synths I fully expect a great piano sound or two, as well as a couple good EPs. No way I'd spend $2K on a keyboard and then feel compelled to spend hundreds extrs $$ to add a decent piano sound either via module or sampling. If that constitutes laziness, so be it.

 

Originally posted by DM:

It seems to be very trendy for everyone to profess their distaste with the Triton sounds, but I'll bet not a single one of you has tried any other than the factory loaded pianos.

[bearded yeti]

Originally posted by coyote:

A synth *has* to have good presets nowadays. Why else would you buy it? Can you sit in a store and go through submenu hell for hours just to prove to yourself that the synth might have some potential? Or do you go strictly by the magazine reviews or word of mouth?

 

For me to consider purchasing a synth, there are many criteria (not neccessarily in order of importance):

a) price (self-explanatory)

b) user interface. It has to be logically laid out, and natural to quickly change sounds. It has to be easy to play and, in the case of analog-style synths, easy to manipulate.

c) The sounds! There have to be some compelling sounds preconfigured onboard. In the case of 88-key weighted synths I fully expect a great piano sound or two, as well as a couple good EPs. No way I'd spend $2K on a keyboard and then feel compelled to spend hundreds extrs $$ to add a decent piano sound either via module or sampling. If that constitutes laziness, so be it.

 

Originally posted by DM:

It seems to be very trendy for everyone to profess their distaste with the Triton sounds, but I'll bet not a single one of you has tried any other than the factory loaded pianos.

First of all, my suggestion was posed as a solution to Blues Disciple's problem of finding a good piano sound. I never said that you should buy a synth based on supposed editing potential.

 

Before the Triton's initial release, Korg's sound programmers had a very short time to produce all of the preset sounds and combinations. Interestingly, as the Triton LE and Studio versions came out, so did much better sounding preset piano programs. Logic would suggest that Korg's programmers have now had time to digest and learn the engine, and therefore are in a better position to create quality sounds than what they had done originally, while under the release deadline. And yes, if you are too lazy to download a new bank of programs, then you probably shouldn't have spent this much money on a synth in the first place.

 

BTW, the Piano EXB08 costs $99, not a couple hundred.

[Steve LeBlanc]

Originally posted by DM:

Could you please make your avatar picture bigger? I may be missing important details.

I wanted to change it anyway...too many people were thinking it was a picture of me...I have too much respect for my Dad's memory for that.

 

Is the size of this Avatar better??

[Dan South]

A sound is only as good as it sounds in context. The Fugue in Dm on my MP3 page was done entirely with a Triton piano sound and an external reverb. I selected the sound after A/B comparisons with Andras Schiff recordings. It didn't match up exactly, but it was in the right ballpark for the genre.

 

I find that layering a Triton piano with a Roland piano (JV-1080 or SV-5080) creates some nice combinations that are better than either source.

 

I've heard that the Triton Studio has better piano sounds, but I haven't tried one. I'd love to try the S80/S90 sound palette, but Yamaha hasn't released them in a rackmount yet, and I don't have room for another keyboard.

 

I used to think that the TR-808 and TB-303 sounded like crap until I heard what creative people were doing with them. The limits of any instrument pale in comparison to the limits we impose upon it.

[Steve LeBlanc]

I agree with that Dan...even more than you may believe

 

Blues Disciple asked if he was crazy for disliking the Triton piano banks...well maybe we're both be crazy...regardless, I know what I like and don't like when it comes to sound so I answered his question the best way I know how.

 

I took offense at the idea that my opinions are formed by popular trends or whatever...I've had this opinion since the first time I heard the Triton. I've never liked any Korg synth really even though I have been able to make pretty good sounding music with them.

[The T Dot]

Originally posted by Dan South:

I've heard that the Triton Studio has better piano sounds, but I haven't tried one.

The new Piano expansion (EXB-08) for the Triton is what comes standard on the Triton Studio. All of the new Piano sounds are available for Triton Classic users. Demos are on Korg's website, so you might want to check it out.

[coyote]

Like I said, my post was not intended as personal - the usage of 'you' was meant strictly in general terms. I was just wondering how someone could spend a couple thousand $$ and not get sounds he/she really likes, and I hypothesized how it could happen.

 

As for Korg products overall, the only ones that have ever captured my fancy are the current generation of Hammond emulators. Played around with a couple Tritons and wasn't impressed.

 

Originally posted by DM:

First of all, my suggestion was posed as a solution to Blues Disciple's problem of finding a good piano sound. I never said that you should buy a synth based on supposed editing potential.

 

Before the Triton's initial release, Korg's sound programmers had a very short time to produce all of the preset sounds and combinations. Interestingly, as the Triton LE and Studio versions came out, so did much better sounding preset piano programs. Logic would suggest that Korg's programmers have now had time to digest and learn the engine, and therefore are in a better position to create quality sounds than what they had done originally, while under the release deadline. And yes, if you are too lazy to download a new bank of programs, then you probably shouldn't have spent this much money on a synth in the first place.

 

BTW, the Piano EXB08 costs $99, not a couple hundred.

[Superbobus]

Before the Triton's initial release, Korg's sound programmers had a very short time to produce all of the preset sounds and combinations. Interestingly, as the Triton LE and Studio versions came out, so did much better sounding preset piano programs. Logic would suggest that Korg's programmers have now had time to digest and learn the engine, and therefore are in a better position to create quality sounds than what they had done originally, while under the release deadline. And yes, if you are too lazy to download a new bank of programs, then you probably shouldn't have spent this much money on a synth in the first place.

And Korg shouldn't have asked such a big amount of money for a synth with such an excuse story...

[bearded yeti]

I don't work for Korg, and it isn't an excuse, it's an explanation of why you should not limit your use to presets.

[Dan South]

Originally posted by Superbobus:

Before the Triton's initial release, Korg's sound programmers had a very short time to produce all of the preset sounds and combinations. Interestingly, as the Triton LE and Studio versions came out, so did much better sounding preset piano programs. Logic would suggest that Korg's programmers have now had time to digest and learn the engine, and therefore are in a better position to create quality sounds than what they had done originally, while under the release deadline. And yes, if you are too lazy to download a new bank of programs, then you probably shouldn't have spent this much money on a synth in the first place.

And Korg shouldn't have asked such a big amount of money for a synth with such an excuse story...

I don't think that this account is true. An article in Keyboard detailed how the international development team worked to develop the Triton factory programs. It sounded like they put a TON of effort into it. The shortcomings with the piano sounds are more due to sample RAM size limitation, IMHO.

[Dan South]

Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc:

I've never liked any Korg synth really even though I have been able to make pretty good sounding music with them.

I know what you mean, Steve. Tritons - and all Korg ROM based synths - have a distinctive sound. To me, they sound more "machine-like" than some of the competition, and as a result, I won't use them for some types of music. However, I find that the machine quality works well for a lot of my music, but I avoid it for classical stuff, for instance. Luckily, we live in a world with lots of great choices!

[bearded yeti]

Originally posted by Dan South:

Originally posted by Superbobus:

Before the Triton's initial release, Korg's sound programmers had a very short time to produce all of the preset sounds and combinations. Interestingly, as the Triton LE and Studio versions came out, so did much better sounding preset piano programs. Logic would suggest that Korg's programmers have now had time to digest and learn the engine, and therefore are in a better position to create quality sounds than what they had done originally, while under the release deadline. And yes, if you are too lazy to download a new bank of programs, then you probably shouldn't have spent this much money on a synth in the first place.

And Korg shouldn't have asked such a big amount of money for a synth with such an excuse story...

I don't think that this account is true. An article in Keyboard detailed how the international development team worked to develop the Triton factory programs. It sounded like they put a TON of effort into it. The shortcomings with the piano sounds are more due to sample RAM size limitation, IMHO.

Dan, go to that irishacts site, and download the programs for the new EXB08. They are set to work using the same internal ROM samples used for the preset piano programs. Just listen to the difference. Even though it is not using the new 16 meg sample, it still sounds 100 times better than the factory presets using the same ROM sample.

 

The difference is in the programming of the sounds. The bottom line is that having 3 years to learn a synth will produce a better soundset than what is possible at initial release.