industriac Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 I finally got around to record some of my music, and I uploaded 3 samples to my webpage. Each sample is more than one minute long, and should give a decent overview, for lack of a better word, of the song. All three songs are on my upcoming limited release title "Variations EP." Go check it out at http://elecktrobank.tripod.com/infinity All music was written, sequenced, mixed, produced, and edited by me. All music was written on a KORG KARMA synth and recorded directly into my computer. I would like to hear your opinions on my music. thanks, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbyjoe Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 yo keith, good on ya for getting your stuff to a page. good move. 1) i couldn't download 'as time stands still'. 2) 'faith in you'. i can see the general point you're trying to bring out of it - the long sustained piano melody. though i think there needs to be more happening. it's easy to switch off when the bass line is soloing. maybe you need some sort of pad with odd fx on it in the background, maybe some sort of arpeggiator on the pad. but generally i think there needs to be more going on. the drums sound very plain - if you re-patched them to an electronic kit and added some more stuff going on (as opposed to having them sound like an actual drummer playing - i know, i've done that heaps and it sounds bare), it would sound heaps good. and on top of it all, add some nice ethereal reverb or something you fancy. 3)angel - good vibe to it. the snare seems obtrusive but once you get into the song it's ok. once again with the bass line going solo: unless you're really trying to emulate a real bass player playing a real bass (where the option would be to precisely do that), there needs to be more happening than just a few notes, especially when it breaks down. what is the melody line in this - is there one? the strings seem to have a bit of unpleasant vibrato on them (like when you accidentally leave the mod wheel up!). once again some different effects would give it more of an edge. i always like phasers and flangers but i'm not into electronic stuff too much. 4) overall: it sounds as if you have programmed the drums/bass as if a real person was playing them (not bad). but as far as i'm aware (from listening to stuff), electronic shouldn't. if you want to have that real instrument effect, maybe get someone to play; also, experiment with some odd effects. try and keep the melody lines and chords smooth, unless you've deliberately got it being jagged. (the short stabbing chords in 'faith in you' come to mind...) 5) don't give up. see criticism as good, only to help you get better (i don't like it when my friends pick my songs apart either). as for the web page, good idea. the "about me v1" section could probably get a little more professional, without losing some of the humourous elements. if you want to push your products on a website, make sure it's professional, not b-grade. please take what i've said as my opinion and not necessarily what you're doing wrong or right. keep going and don't give up keith. k pray for peace. "Consider how much coffee you're drinking - it's probably not enough." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbyjoe Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 i've also bookmarked your page and would love to see it when it's ready to take on some A&R person! "Consider how much coffee you're drinking - it's probably not enough." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
industriac Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 thanks a lot for your opinion. A friend of mine notified me of the broken link to "As Time Stands Still." I fixed, and you can now download it. I have to change the string patch for the song "Angel In the Sunrise...." Forgot to add, also, what was wrong with my "About Me" section? I'd like to know what you thought was wrong with it, jimbyjoe. thanks [ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: industriac ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Forgot to add, also, what was wrong with my "About Me" section? I'd like to know what you thought was wrong with it, jimbyjoe. I would like to comment on this. These are just suggestions and opinions. You can take it for what it is, hopefully helpful comments from a stranger. First you dont want to tell your age, and then in the next line it sounds like you just hit your first year of college. Either be a recluse in hiding, or be totally open. Dont call the reader funny. Quote from the web site: Since I am a poor college student, I have a very modest set up. If and whenever I get a lot of money, I will be buying new stuff. As of now I use a KORG keyboard, Electrix effects processor, SONY mic, and a computer for audio editing. Horrible statement. It almost sounds like you are apologizing for the results and blaming it on poor equipment. Some major songs have been produced on much less than a Korg Karma. List what you used and be proud of it. Call it a simple set up, but dont call it poor, or just a keyboard you have to use until you get rich. Another quote: What would you be doing if you were not writing music? What kind of question is that? If I was not writing music, I would probably be doing something else. What I would be doing, I do not know. Either take that out or give it a true answer. You tell us you are in college. What are you studying? If you are not going to be a writer or musician what are you going to be? And one more quote: You list Industrial and other electronic genres as the music you listen to. Why is that your music does not sound remotely like aformentioned genres? Good question. I do not know. Actually, the original recording of "Believe" sounded very synthy as that song was written during the time I listened to lots of synthpop (I still do, but not as much). I mainly write my songs that come from within, songs that reflect my emotions and my thoughts. I suppose that's why I have not written any "Industrial" sounding tunes. THATS IT. This is a great question and answer. It shows you are a musician and composer, not just a kid in college throwing a web site together. When did you write your first song? What prompted you to choose a Korg Karma? Do you play in front of people or are you reclusive? Do you share ideas or compose with a partner? Why so or why not? Oh, and do you have a spell checker? I noticed aforementioned is misspelled. Like I said, take my critique for what it is, basically 2 cents worth of opinion and nothing more. I hope it helps. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbyjoe Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 keith, by the "about me" page - rabid touched on what i was gonna say. i mean, just things like being "a poor college student". i can understand where you're coming from putting that in there (the jest you are puttng across) but from a professional aspect it doesn't look too impressive. dude i wasn't slamming you - i was just hoping to shed some light on it - don't think i was slamming you! i will have another look at it all in the morning. i've been out recording tonight and my wife is beckoning for me to go to bed (nothing kinky). keep ya head up. pray for peace, k "Consider how much coffee you're drinking - it's probably not enough." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbyjoe Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 can i first offer to everyone my condolences and prayers for the NY jet crash, especially to keith and anyone else who lives in new york...... [long pause] keith, i just checked out your page again - obviously you went and updated it. kewl. rabid pretty much covered all i was going to comment on anyway - just things like saying "i'm a poor college student" and things like that which seemed to beat around the bush. (oops - that last comment just means to wander aimlessly in australian talk). i never meant to slam you over the page and i hope it didn't come across like that either. please let us know when you have more demos etc on the page - will be good to hear! take care, pray for peace. k "Consider how much coffee you're drinking - it's probably not enough." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 I also went back and poked around. The history page is a nice touch. And you have to admire someone as young as yourself who is making their own future. You can return the favor of being a critic when I do my page. I am slowly, very slowly, working on a combination story and music. Each instrumental is a chapter in a story and since the songs are instrumental I will post the story line. My only decision is to weather to do it chapter at a time, or wait and post it all at once. If I wait until it is done that may take forever. If I post each chapter and song as it is finished I may be backing up and changing parts of a story that people are already reading. Either way, it will be purely for my entertainment. I am too old now to chase a contract. I just want my music heard, even if I just give it away. "Beat around the bush" is an Aussie phrase? I grew up with that one and I am on the other side of the world. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
industriac Posted November 13, 2001 Author Share Posted November 13, 2001 thanks a lot jimbyjoe and rabid for the comments on my webpage. I did not take anything you two have said as a slam on my webpage =). What I liked that is both of you gave constructive criticism, and pointing out the faults on what you saw, instead of just saying "it sucks," or "get away you poor college kid ." Thats what I like this forum, and thats why I posted my music on this site to get "reviewed." =) To anyone else on this forum, I updated the links to download the samples of my music, and there should be no problem in downloading them. Jimbyjoe - I fixed the link to the song "As Time Stands Still" and I would like your opinion on it too. Rabid - I liked that you commented on the content of my webpage, and I thank you for that (same to you Jimby!), but I would also like to hear your opinion on my music. To everyone who listens to the samples - What do you think of the recording quality and how does it sound on your set of speakers? All I did to record my music was take a dual 1/8" stereo jack, and I pluged one end into the line-in of my souncard and the other end into the headphone jack on my KARMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cg1155 Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 The sound file quality was fine as far as I could tell. In my experience line level signals like synths usually give a cleaner signal because they are hotter. Most people I know who record through the computer soundcard have more trouble with vocals. The one thing I really noticed about your music is that it lacks some motion. I second previous comments about effects - add a little variation if possible. What software are you recording into? I ask because if you are using a program like Logic or something similar you could do some fun things with plugins - there are many good freebies out there as well as the possiblilty of editing in some stutters or whatnot. -cg1155 PS. Props for getting your stuff out there - a gutsy move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
industriac Posted November 14, 2001 Author Share Posted November 14, 2001 Thats good to hear cg1155 that the quality is decent. I had to record my music several times before I was happy with the levels, and then after that I referenced a test copy on my computer speakers, 3 CD players, my stereo, and a friends stereo, and it sounded well on all systems. Also, cg1155 - When you say lack "motion," Im supposing youre telling me the songs sound "stiff." I suppose that all stems from the simplistic drum patterns that I programmed. Im still new to sequencing drums, so I suppose on these songs I stuck with simple patterns, so else Id be sitting in front of my keyboard hours end, editing drums. But, I am gonna do that now when I have the time to edit my drums because of the comments Ive read so far. The program that I record my music into is Cool Edit 2000. Its a great program, and I havent fully delved into the program. I mainly use it for simple audio editing and minor tweaking. For the three songs recorded, I amplified the songs a little bit and made a slight bass cut. About adding different effects - well, I use the internal effects processor on my KARMA and that allows me to use 5 insert fx. And, usually I fill up all 5 with basic stuff like 7-band EQ, stereo compressor (mainly for drums) and a reverb for pianos. I suppose I can record all the tracks from my songs seperately into Cool Edit and use plug-ins to add effects to each track seperately. That leads to this question - What kind of effects go well with the patches I chose (bass, piano, drums, strings - those make up most of my songs)? I dont want to add some weird effect to make the songs odd sounding considering they are on the mellow side. I am open to suggestions that I can try out. Jimbyjoe - I remember you posted that the song "Faith In You" sounded bare and that I should add a pad or what not to it. I was thinking of using the strings in the beginning of the song when the piano melody starts. What do you think of having sustained string or pad chords that follow the piano (dunno if thats the best way I could have said it)? So, there is like a dual melody - the short stabs of the piano and the sustained strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The T Dot Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 Industriac I just wanted to say that I like the sound of your samples, but I also agree with the lack of "motion" having to do with the simplistic drum patterns. I'm still new to sequencing drums too, and I know it's tough. I think you and I are in the same boat in a lot of ways.. I've had a Triton for about 3 months and I'm still digging in and trying to learn the best way to go about doing my recording in Cubase. Lately I've been sequencing on the Triton, but recording one or two tracks to cubase at a time, which allows more subtle use of up to 5 instert effects plus the 2 masters on each track. I noticed you listed Front Line Assembly as one of your favorite bands. Do you like the music of any of the other FLA "projects" like Delerium, Intermix, Conjure One, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_dup1 Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 Hey industriac, I think the two biggest things that may help to improve the songs would be pads and drum fills. I think they're a great start though. Will you be adding any vocals to them as well? R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
industriac Posted November 15, 2001 Author Share Posted November 15, 2001 I like FLA, and I also like Delerium a lot. Some of the older side-projects I havent really listened to, but from what I have heard I like. Ive had my KARMA since April, and I am still learning how to sequence things. Ive become pretty adept at using the internal sequencer and the way KORG layed everything out was great. I used a N364 for awhile, and, boy, did I hate that sequencer along with that tiny screen. Funny how the D1600 hard disk recorder comes with about the same size screen as the KARMA, but the D1600 has a touch screen (according to the review from Keyboard). Chris100 - thanks for liking all the patches I chose for my songs. I suppose you can figure out what I used Im thinking of using some rhodes or wurlys instead of an acoustic piano in some of my future songs. Also, Roland, thanks for the input too. Most of my songs are instrumentals, as I dont really sing well, and I havent had time to look for a friend who can sing. But, the song "Angel In The Sunrise" does have words to it...its sorta like a spoken word style thing. Pads and drum fills (Im gonna add a little more variation to the stiff drum patterns) - I made a mental note on it...maybe more strings instead...hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Sorry I took so long but until tonight I never had any speakers connected to a computer with internet. Everything here has been screwed up since I tried installing DSL into my home network. First. The Karma has great arpeggios, lots of fantastic rhythms, great programming. You can hold one note, turn knobs, and turn out amazing parts. Where are they? I dont hear any of that in your music. You buy a Karma and you think you can come up with better music by playing real notes into a sequencer than you can letting it play the patterns for you? What is the phrase I am thinking of? Hmmm. Oh yes. Thank you. Thats it. Too many people your age (and mine) think if they use pre-designed patterns and hit the record key they automatically become a musical genius. Patterns are fine in music, but that is the last step to take. Not the first. So again, thank you for not posting preset patterns on the web and asking us to appraise your abilities. Now to a few comments. As said above the balance seems to be off a bit with the snare on one song, but years first playing drums and then standing in front of a drum set has effected my hearing. Other than that, from what I can tell the mix is quite good. I am surprised at the quality you got from going from headphone to sound card. The songs have a good emotional base. The string sounds fit well. After adding vocals to any songs you can start to put in the little touches. One thing I noticed was the similarity between the songs with tempo, feel, key and cord progression. Im not sure if this was intentional or not. Angel quickly deviates from the pattern of the other two songs and sounds like a follow up to one of the other songs. Over all, not bad. When I say not bad take that as a compliment. If I dont like something, well, look at my post in the Monk thread. Would I buy it? Honestly, not at this point. But, you have peaked my interest. I have book marked the page and will be returning to hear more, and to hear how you and the songs develop. It is very hard to judge a 1 minute clip. You just dont know where things are going. When vocals, leads, or melodies are in place I hope you will update the links and let us hear longer clips. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
industriac Posted November 15, 2001 Author Share Posted November 15, 2001 thanks Rabid for the reply. Thats what I thought when I first played around with the KARMA. I fell in love with KARMA feature of the synth, and thought, "wow, this can definitely help me with coming up with new song ideas." Ironically, enough I havent really used them, but now I am. Usually, I dont start off a song by messing around with the preset GEs. I usually start off a song with a bassline or part of a melody, and the I look for a GE pattern that can compliment the song. Also, I think the Angel song tricked you there. The drums and the arppegiated piano actually came from a preset pattern, but the piano pattern was used on a different piano patch. The arppegiated piano pattern does sound like it was seqeunced though . Ive had the most problems with the drum loop because it is on one track and the snare is quite overpowering. I keep compressing it and EQing and it seems that it still wants to be "heard." About all the songs having a similar feel, they came out that way, but I did not intentionally do that. As I said on my website, I write songs that come from within, my feelings and etc. Usually when I sit down to write a song, it reflects the mood I am in at that moment. Thanks a lot for the input. And, I take "not bad" not as a negative remark. To me that means, its good, but one can try to take it a step further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Have we abandoned the Let's Hear It thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Originally posted by industriac: thanks Rabid for the reply. ... The drums and the arppegiated piano actually came from a preset pattern, but the piano pattern was used on a different piano patch. The arppegiated piano pattern does sound like it was seqeunced though . Ive had the most problems with the drum loop because it is on one track and the snare is quite overpowering. I keep compressing it and EQing and it seems that it still wants to be "heard." About all the songs having a similar feel, they came out that way, but I did not intentionally do that. As I said on my website, I write songs that come from within, my feelings and etc. Usually when I sit down to write a song, it reflects the mood I am in at that moment. With a good sequencer on the computer you will be able to pull those tracks in as midi, separate the drum track, filter the snare into a separate line (not midi channel, just notation line), and then limit or compress the midi velocity for the snare at the midi level. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbyjoe Posted November 16, 2001 Share Posted November 16, 2001 hi all, keith - there's another thread on here, i think it's called "expert opinions on my music". a bloke has done what you've done. there's links there and it may be worth checking out. it's using more samples than composing from scratch i think, so don't feel inferior. i don't think it's created all from scratch, but it might offer some suggestions if you're into that kind of music. pray for peace, k "Consider how much coffee you're drinking - it's probably not enough." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
industriac Posted November 18, 2001 Author Share Posted November 18, 2001 rabid - thanks for the tip of seperating the loop into its components, but the problem is that I dont have a software sequencer, yet. I do all my sequencing on the internal one of the KARMA, and Im pretty decent using it. But, I found out today that I can do what you stated in the internal sequencer. Thanks again for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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