suggestions on a rackmount?

[industriac]

Ive decided that I need to start saving up money to expand my little music studio and Ive decided that my next purchase is going to be a rackmount synth.

 

To start off this is what I have already -

1. KORG Karma

2. Electrix Mo-Fx (which I havent used in any song so far, but in the future)

3. Of course, a computer for doing audio editing and recording.

 

Second-

I think I can allow myself to spend no more than $1200 or so. If I decide to save up more, then I would say $1600. So, the highest range I would pay is $1200-$1500 even though cheaper would be better.

 

Third-

I am looking for a unit that has pretty decent sounding pianos, strings, bass, woodwind sounds, and some analog sounding stuff (pads and bass). I am also looking for a unit that has a pretty decent arppegiator with more patterns than the standard up, down, up/down, down/up, random 1 and 2.

 

Fourth-

You dont have to give me only one rackmount. If you can find a couple of rackmounts that fit what I want in the same price range then that is great. The more the merrier. I suppose only at least 2 can fit the price range.

 

Five-

Ive been looking at the Triton Rack and Ive read a review on the Kurzweil PC2R. Both look really good and fit my price range, but is getting a Triton necessary since I already own a KARMA? The PC2R looks really good, and its decently priced for a Kurzweil, but does it come with a decent arppegiator mentioned before?

 

Since I am looking for todays models in the future, I suppose prices would drop in that time frame, about a year or two.

 

Six-

If and whenever I decide to do a live performance, which is a more portable solution? 1)Bring a full size keyboard with me, in this case the KARMA or 2)buy a controller synth, probably a 49 key with synth action, and a rackmount module?

 

thanks a lot.

[dansouth]

I don't know why you insist on an arpeggiator. Doesn't the Karma do that already? Can you send arpeggio data over MIDI to your other modules?

 

There's nothing wrong with having a Triton AND a KARMA if you like the Korg sound, but in your case, that would be too limiting. You need something that sounds VERY different from the Korgs, because what your setup needs now is VARIETY.

 

I might suggest the Roland XV3080 (or 5080 if you can swing it). It doesn't sound even remotely like the Korgs, and it will compliment the KARMA well. The Rolands have lots of expansion options allowing you to really customize them for your purposes.

 

A second option is a K2500R. This is a very powerful machine that will let you do amazing things. It doesn't sound as "different" from the Korgs as the Rolands would, but you're not going to be sorry that you own one. And buy the Sweetwater Total Session Stereo Drums CD if you get a Kurz. You'll use it all over the place.

 

Or you could try something like the Yamaha A-series samplers. I haven't used them, but I've heard that they're easy to use and sound good. Or consider the Motif (keyboard only at this time). It looks like a REALLY hot item.

 

Another more unusual option would be the Waldorf Microwave XT. It has a unique sound, but you need to try it to see if it's even in the right ballpark for what you want to do.

 

For modeled analog, the Roland JV-8080 has a nice, warm sound, but it's not the most flexible choice.

 

Make sure you listen to as many things as you can before you buy. And hold off until after Summer NAMM. You never know when a hot new "perfect" product is going to be announced.

[mwisniewski]

Sounds like you mainly have gear lust http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

I second the suggestion for the the XV-3080 or 5080.

They really do compliment your current setup and their expandable.

 

Try to get the 5080 if you can, not only can you add expansion boards like the 3080 but you can read in sampled sounds from CDs.

[Senator]

Definately consider the Roland JV series (and expansion cards) to extend in the rack area economically.

The PC2R is shithot, buy it and forget the arpeggiator.

 

The live issue is decided by how much simultaneous performance control you need. Remember that if you are buying a keyboard for the keyboard, Kurzweil are basically one of the only companies still to produce their own keyboards.

I tailor the size of the live rig to dollars paid for the performance. Danger dollars.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Senator:

Kurzweil are basically one of the only companies still to produce their own keyboards.

 

I don't think so.

 

I believe that all Kurzweil keybeds are made by FATAR, just like almost everyone else in the industry. The only exceptions of which I am aware are Yamaha, who makes all of their own keybeds, and Roland who makes some of their own keybeds and buy some keybeds from FATAR. Besides that, AFAIK, pretty much everyone else uses FATAR.

 

dB

[Sergievsky]

Agree with all the above, go with a Roland. I went the cheap route, getting the half-rack JV1010-good pianos,strings, pads. Not ideal for live, but still useful. With the money you save you can get a sampler, which you really should. Of course, then you're gonna need a mixer, then probably some effects to make it sound even better, then...

 

Raul

[marino]

Industriac:

I would go with the PC2R. Its pianos and strings eat the Rolands alive IMO, and *without* the need of expansion cards! It also has very good, professional effects.

Happy hunting

 

marino

[Senator]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

 

I believe that all Kurzweil keybeds are made by FATAR, just like almost everyone else in the industry.

 

Well that shatters my belief in that fine pedigree. Nah, still though, the Kurz's are fresh and beautiful to play, def. my pick.

 

Sampler good plan for live rig.

[industriac]

You know, I totally forgot about the Roland XV and JV series rack systems. They look nice. I like the JV-1080 I played with at a friend's house. But, they seem expensive, $1300 for the XV3080, even though its in my price range, and the XV5080 is even more expensive.

 

I am really leaning towards the PC2R mainly because of the price. I think its somewhere around $800-$900. With the extra cash I can pick something else up, like maybe a sampler. But, as I dont have the money now, its probably going to be a purchase next year. Maybe then the price of the kurzweil or rolands would drop as new equipment is rolled out.

 

And, is there any point in getting a hardware sampler even though I have a copy of Gigasampler?

[Senator]

Originally posted by industriac:

And, is there any point in getting a hardware sampler even though I have a copy of Gigasampler?

 

you taking the PC live? 1 decent control keyboard with onboard sounds (Kurz) and an s5000. Almost everything you need!

 

 

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Ed

[industriac]

No, I did not mean taking my PC with me if and whenever I perform live. I meant for home use...should I get hardware sampler even though I have a copy of Gigasampler?

 

Right now, for performing live (whenever it happens), is just going to be a sound module and a controller keyboard, instead of bringing my KARMA with me. Im a one man act and I when I perform, I'll just be playing one or two parts live.

 

If I decide to use a sampler with me, I would rather spend the money on a laptop and install it with Gigasampler (or a better soft-sampler) as a laptop is cheaper than the S5000. I configured a 700MHz PIII, 192Mbs of Ram and 20 GB hard drive at Dell for $1677.

[Guest]

As some have suggested, I too would look closesly at the PC2R. I played one at GC and was pretty knocked out by the sound. I A/Bed it against the K2600 and thought it sounded superior.

 

Busch

[The T Dot]

Originally posted by industriac:

Right now, for performing live (whenever it happens), is just going to be a sound module and a controller keyboard, instead of bringing my KARMA with me. Im a one man act and I when I perform, I'll just be playing one or two parts live.

 

Wouldn't the Karma generator be a good complement to your playing, since you are a "one man act"?

[mwisniewski]

I still think the Xv 3080 is the way to go.

 

But I was thinking you might try getting the Roland JV 1010, it supports the SRJV Roland Expansion cards, so you'd be able add more sounds down the line, and that module is really small. You'd get a small module and have the expandability to boot.

[Senator]

The actual components such as A/D converters, and the assembly of these components are what separates software-based instruments. Hence, in my opinion you can not get the same sound out of a computer as you can from a dedicated stand-alone machine.

 

You don't need another control keyboard. Use the Karma live and buy a hardware sampler (s3000, 5000, or an Emu) and some rippin' CD roms, and don't worry about a rack tone module!

 

------------------

Ed

 

This message has been edited by Senator on 07-15-2001 at 03:43 AM

[Guest]

Originally posted by Senator:

The actual components such as A/D converters, and the assembly of these components are what separates software-based instruments. Hence, in my opinion you can not get the same sound out of a computer as you can from a dedicated stand-alone machine.

 

You don't need another control keyboard. Use the Karma live and buy a hardware sampler (s3000, 5000, or an Emu) and some rippin' CD roms, and don't worry about a rack tone module!

 

 

 

Not to get this thread completely OT, but it sounds as though you're suggesting computer-based converters are inferior to those found in hardware synths. That's not what my experience tells me. I've felt for some time now that hardware synths/samplers are more semi-pro than pro gear. Here are a few thoughts:

 

Most synths/samplers lack digital I/O and when it is provided it's typically S/PDIF with NO word clock. All computer-based ADC/DACs in my studio are driven from a central clock. I don't buy cards unless they have WC inputs. Trying to incorporate non WC devices is a big pain.

 

All of my computer-based I/O is 24-bit and has been for several years. It is rare to find hardware synths/samplers that use 24-bit DACs. 18-bit and 20-bit are the norm (the Akai and Emu you mention have 20-bit DACs).

 

Sampling rates above 48KHz are very rare (I think Nord might be 96Khz). But I can easily push my Native Instruments software synths to 96Khz and beyond (192Khz with the LynxTwo card). A higher sampling rate does a lot to tighten up soft synths and to increase high-end frequencies.

 

Most hardware uses unbalanced 1/4" connectors. It's rare to find balanced XLRs. My pro audio gears has balanced XLRs. Why don't my "pro" synths have them?

 

The converters on my LynxOne card are absolutely excellent and I would like to see a hardware synth/sampler that matches the 117db S/N ratio of my MOTU 1224s. Of course if you have the budget you can get into the real pro converters from Apogee, Prism, etc. Unfortunately, these cost more than most synth workstations.

 

I have both a Triton and OASYS card--the OASYS sounds better.

 

I've gradually been moving from hardware-based to software-based and I'm very happy with the switch.

 

Busch

[Senator]

Originally posted by burningbusch@home.com:

Not to get this thread completely OT, but it sounds as though you're suggesting computer-based converters are inferior to those found in hardware synths.

 

Busch

 

I'm not. Not sonically inferior, less workable as an instrument. A hardware sampler has a sound, like a Sequential or Oberheim synth but not as characterised or obvious. It is not the 'quality' of these machines parts that makes them what they are but their sonic impact, the way that they can be worked as an instrument. This includes the dedicated OS and control surface.

 

Without using two very separate systems (diff. cards + progs) can you get the weight of sound than you can from 2 samplers sitting side by side.

 

You say you're happy making the switch from hardware to software-based. I'm not. Not unless I have at least 3 computers which are dedicated to the task, the power contraints of a computer halt your creativity a lot sooner than you expect.

Computers are great for recording but for me they have not taken the position of instruments, samplers being of the more versatile variety.

 

Although a completely side point, my samplers (Emu + Akai) have balanced XLRs both in and out.

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

------------------

Ed

[Mike Martin]

Most hardware uses unbalanced 1/4" connectors. It's rare to find balanced XLRs. My pro audio gears has balanced XLRs. Why don't my "pro" synths have them? The converters on my LynxOne card are absolutely excellent and I would like to see a hardware synth/sampler that matches the 117db S/N ratio of my MOTU 1224s.

 

The PC2R was mentioned quite a few times in this thread. It in fact has a dynamic range of 117dB. It also has balanced analog outputs and a 24bit digital out. Its specs and its audio quality are far superior to any keyboard/synth product that I know of.

 

-Mike Martin

Kurzweil Music Systems

[industriac]

hmmm...I am still leaning towards the PC2R as my rackmount. And, with money I save instead of buying a Roland, I can buy a sampler. And, it looks like the Emu one mentioned in another thread looks really good for $550.

 

But, as I said before, these purchases are probably gonna be in the future. Maybe then, something cheaper and better than the PC2R and the Emu sampler may come out.

[Magpel]

If you're already running gigasampler successfully--i.e., app is stable, latency is low, polyphony is high, integration with your sequencer app is trouble-free, my choice would be to invest your bucks in the high end gigasampler libraries. For pianos, the East-West Steinway and Bosendorfer, for Woodwinds, check out Dan Dean's Woodwind Library and Quantum Leap Brass for saxes. For strings, many options including Gary Garritan's new collection, which is rumored to set a new standard for string samples. For a little under 2 grand, you could get a very sweet collection of high-end areas that focus right in on your specific needs, without getting 28 more EP or synth patches that you don't need. Just a thought, or rather a fantasy on my part.

 

John