Dave Bryce Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 Which do you prefer? If a synth was available in rack & keyboard versions, and they were pretty much exactly the same machine in both incarnations, towards which would you gravitate? Would the pricing be your primary motivation, or the ergonomics? What looks cooler to you - a studio with a whole bunch of keyboards, or a studio with one or two keyboards and a whole slew of racks? Do you find that you're less inclined to program a synth if it's racked, or does that not make a difference to you? Discuss... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakit Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 These days I will always opt for module over keyboard. I have plenty of keyboards and half are midi capable. When I go on the road it's easier to take a full rack than a slew of boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthetic Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 I would choose a module. I have a few keyboards to choose from now, and space is getting tight. I have about a 6'x 10' corner where all of my synth gear lives, now that my girlfriend has taken over 1/2 the office. I agree that keyboards are easier to program, but once you have one weighted and one unweighted how many more do you need? BTW, Dave - did you ever get your Matrix 12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 Certian synths, like Andromeda, where there's going to be a lot of "on the fly", real time activity going on, I'd say definitely a keyboard. That would probably be the case for a K2500 also, because of the ribbons and sliders. But beyond having one good weighted controller, and having a good non weighted controller, I say bring on the modules. Samplers, any of the Roland JV series (as opposed to their XP equivalents), Emu, Korg, etc., can still be taken to their expressive fullest as a module, with a decent controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joegerardi Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 With several notable exeptions, I'd always select a module. I remember seeing Yes onstage in 1987 and really loved the clean look of Tony Kaye's controller-based rig, and since then have tried to get that same cleanness. OK, the exceptions: An EIII. I don't know whay, but I could never own an EIII rack. There's just something about that beast that makes me want the keyboard version. Any analog. Because of the playability of an analog's panel, I would want it there with me, rather than having a racked Mini, or an MKS80, etc. This message has been edited by joegerardi on 06-24-2001 at 04:44 PM Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llarion Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 I love the action of my RD-500 piano and use it to trigger both my Proteus 2000 and my Triton 61, so I'd guess I'd be inclined to continue to expand using modules... Room is a big factor for me now too. ------------------ Cheers! Phil "Llarion: The Jazzinator" Traynor www.mp3.com/llarion Smooth Jazz Cheers! Phil "Llarion: The Jazzinator" Traynor www.llarion.com Smooth Jazz - QUESTION AUTHORITY. Go ahead, ask me anything. http://www.llarion.com/images/dichotomybanner.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 From a live standpoint, there is something cool about the big Emerson/Wakeman/etc. setups with tons of keyboards set up all around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted June 25, 2001 Author Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by synthetic: BTW, Dave - did you ever get your Matrix 12? Nope. Not yet, anyway. I'll probably have to sell something to justify having it. Maybe the Chroma...great synth, but I never use it... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted June 25, 2001 Author Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by joegerardi: Because of the playability of an analog's panel, I would want it there with me, rather than having a racked Mini, or an MKS80, etc. I think that the MKS80 doesn't count because of the MPG80 - I keep my MPG sitting on my QS8 like a desktop synth right where I can get to it, so it's kinda like having an 88-key hammer action Jupiter-8. The actual MKS80 stays in a rack. It's one of the reasons that I like it. Y'see, I have this peculiar thing going on where even though I prefer the module concept in principle, I find that I rarely program them mainly because of the ergonomics. I want to program on something that has keys. I'm not even sure why...I have even tried putting the modules directly over the keyboard that I'm playing them from to make it seem as though they're part of the same unit, and I still have to fight my natural inclination, which is not to program them. Now, a keyboard is a whole different story. Conversely, I have to fight my natural inclination to tweak every patch that I play on a keyboard. Maybe it's that my brain has a hard time getting used to the idea that it's playing something that it's not touching...weird, huh? I actually wish that I could get over it, but i just can't seem to do so. Anyone else feel similarly? dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 SteadyB said it all... It depends entirely in the kind of synth. I'd hate an Andromeda Module. I'd hate a KARMA rack... even worse, a friend of mine which is a TRITON user, would hate to switch to a rack module. He just loves the touch screen... So, if the sounds of the synth are not that tweakable or have hard-wired ribbons, knobs or Touch screens, I'd go for a rack module. I am actually happy with samples of a lot of synths I have collected http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif and my soft synths. So yeah, Dave, I do prefer the module concept too, but also hate programming rack versions. Ergonomics... Talking about Wakeman, Kaye or Emerson setups, I had a gig last week where a friend of mine let me use his synths. I was surrounded by a ROLAND VOCODER, Nord lead II, Prophecy, JP 8000 and my LapTop with the Ensoniq synth I use as a controller... way too cool, but I felt lost sometimes... So even for live usage, I do prefer a couple of synths... the rest in software or racks offstage, unless the keyboard really has to be there. ------------------ Gustavo G Lozada Moderador de: MusicPlayer.com/NuestroForo "La voz en Español en Música y Tecnología" GusTraX @yahoo.com Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo Senior Product Manager, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus at Fender Musical Instruments Company Instagram: guslozada Facebook: Lozada - Música y Tecnología www.guslozada.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod S Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 I'm leaning towards modules right now, even though I like to sit (or stand) in front of the keyboard as I play, going through presets and tweaking. I don't have any room and its getting cumbersome to work (I've reached my max, one 88 weigthed keyboard and 2 synth style keyboards; one is going to have to go if I buy another one) It really depends on the keybed, and the controls. I haven't liked what I have seen so far in terms of keybed, so I would probably take the module. If I find a keybed I really like, I would buy it; since it's such a rare occasion for me. I was going to sell my qs6 and buy a qsr, but that is still my favorite keybed, go figure. Pricing used to be main consideration, and then I had to chance to buy the cs6x on sale for just $50 more than the module. I still wish I bought the module, saved space, since I hate the keybed. I've rearranged my gear so that everything is on top of my main controller (the kurz pc88mx), and that seems to work fine. Any modules I buy will go right there. I've never really figured out people who stack modules at knee level. I guess they use computer editor to tweak patches. But nothing beats being surrounded by keyboards. that is waaaay cool. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Rod Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II MBP-LOGIC American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodayguy Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 being surrounded by keys is cool? I guess you've never had to shlep all that gear around. simplification is good. cool is how you play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 sorry, triple post. This message has been edited by steadyb on 06-25-2001 at 01:15 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 not sure how I did that. This message has been edited by steadyb on 06-25-2001 at 01:16 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by bodayguy: being surrounded by keys is cool? I guess you've never had to shlep all that gear around. simplification is good. cool is how you play. Yes I have had to shlep all that gear around. It was still very cool having the big multi-keyboard setup, just like many of our idols. But, with age comes wisdom, and a more streamlined setup starts to make more sense. If you've never tried the "surrounded by keyboards" thing at least once, you should, if you get the chance, it is a lot of fun. And of course how and what you play is very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod S Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by bodayguy: being surrounded by keys is cool? I guess you've never had to shlep all that gear around. simplification is good. cool is how you play. I said it was cool. Didn't say it was practical. I personally wouldn't take more than 2 keys to a gig, and most of the time only took one. I never had anyone to carry the equipment but myself. I think Dave's question pertained to 'technology' so I'm not going to start a debate on equipment vs technique. Lighten up. Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II MBP-LOGIC American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by Rod CA: I said it was cool. Didn't say it was practical. Lighten up. And "cool" is worth "impractical" any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodayguy Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 ever notice that billy joel, elton john, ben folds and mw smith are never surrounded by a swath of keyboards? Hmmm. wonder why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by bodayguy: ever notice that billy joel, elton john, ben folds and mw smith are never surrounded by a swath of keyboards? Hmmm. wonder why. 'cause they're singers, Emerson and Wakeman, etc., are not. And besides, this isn't a "many keyboards vs. few" thread, a few of us just said it was cool... ...easy does it fella, r e l a x. steadyb This message has been edited by steadyb on 06-25-2001 at 04:30 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted June 25, 2001 Author Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by bodayguy: ever notice that billy joel, elton john, ben folds and mw smith are never surrounded by a swath of keyboards? Hmmm. wonder why. Perhaps it's because they're piano players? Actually, I know that three of them are...pardon my ignorance, but who's mw smith? dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: Perhaps it's because they're piano players? dB Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucktunes Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: Actually, I know that three of them are...pardon my ignorance, but who's mw smith? dB Michael W. Smith, one of my faves. He's the Contemporary Christian music parallel to Elton or Billy, although not quite as proficient as a player. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that last part!) He had a few hits back in the early 90's, but other than that he's rarely heard outside the CC music format. Which is a shame, because he's an excellent writer/singer/keyboardist. His records are flawlessly produced and the songs are well written and arranged. Again, it's too bad most people won't hear his stuff. Oh, well... I guess that could be the subject of another thread. Maybe I'll start it! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Peace all, Steve ><> Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_3guy Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 I've owned my share of keyboards & modules. There's some dettachment with a module. I've really liked some of the keyboards I've owned, can't say that about modules. The modules have given me really good sounds but they have no personality. They seem awkward for live playing because they require you to run extra cabling & with live playing you don't always have the time to trouble shoot when things go wrong. So against practicality, I prefer keyboards & I hump my own rig. Surrounded by keyboards never made me feel cool, but if I have only one I tend to feel a bit naked. More than 2 makes me excessive. Steve www.seagullphotodesign.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Yeah, so instead of shlepping around four or five keyboards they shlep a PIANO! I'd rather move my 300lb.Hammond and the other keys than a piano any day http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Originally posted by Dave Bryce: Perhaps it's because they're piano players? dB I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darcity Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 As for me and my rig, I prefer the modules for two reasons: 1) Don't have to worry about space and others complaining because I take up so much space 2) I only have 2 hands BTW, I play a B3 with an XP-50 on top (soon to be replaced by a Triton) and the rest are modules. Even when I'm not on the organ, I prefer two boards and the rest modules. It just doesn't look cluttered and I don't feel like I'm in a cage. ------------------ Darrell Yamaha MODX8, Korg Kronos 2 61, Hammond B3, Novation 61SL MKII, Impulse 61, Roland D-550, Proteus 2000, etc......to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joegerardi Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: I think that the MKS80 doesn't count because of the MPG80 - I keep my MPG sitting on my QS8 like a desktop synth right where I can get to it, so it's kinda like having an 88-key hammer action Jupiter-8. The actual MKS80 stays in a rack. It's one of the reasons that I like it. Y'see, I have this peculiar thing going on where even though I prefer the module concept in principle, I find that I rarely program them mainly because of the ergonomics. I want to program on something that has keys. I'm not even sure why...I have even tried putting the modules directly over the keyboard that I'm playing them from to make it seem as though they're part of the same unit, and I still have to fight my natural inclination, which is not to program them. Now, a keyboard is a whole different story. Conversely, I have to fight my natural inclination to tweak every patch that I play on a keyboard. Maybe it's that my brain has a hard time getting used to the idea that it's playing something that it's not touching...weird, huh? I actually wish that I could get over it, but i just can't seem to do so. Anyone else feel similarly? dB I'm with you there, Dave. I have to agree that there is a "distance" feel when editing modules. I think's it's because the operating system is originally designed for the keyboard versions. I remember programming the Vintage Keys module, and (I think) because it was designed as a module from the ground up, it was a joy to program. I've been toying with ideas for my new rig. I was thinking of building a keyboard stand with all the modules inside it, so they're always close at hand. It would ease the "spaghetti syndrome" and make getting to them easier. (That is, if I ever finish getting the pieces I need to get it done...) This message has been edited by joegerardi on 06-25-2001 at 10:52 AM Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakit Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 I've gone to a lot of Billy Joel concerts and the reason that he isn't surrounded by synths is because he has at least one (sometimes more) synth players on stage handling the synth parts. Not that the synth players are surrounded either but they usually have at least two boards each. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: If a synth was available in rack & keyboard versions, and they were pretty much exactly the same machine in both incarnations, towards which would you gravitate? Would the pricing be your primary motivation, or the ergonomics? If the engines were exactly the same, I would tend to gravitate toward the rack version. My motitvation would be an equal mix of cost savings and ergonomics. In my case, I use a Yamaha SY99 as my main controller. It has 76 keys, good master keyboard functions, and the (wonderful) engine did not appear in rack form, so it is worth having to me. However, when I was looking at the Waldorf Q I felt the degree to which the UI was trimmed (less knobs) on the Q Rack was not enough to move me to the keys version, so I got the Rack and its full engine for less than half the price of the keyboard version and my small studio stayed small. I got the Clavia Nord Modular keys version though because the keys can act as programming switches and logic controllers, and it cost less than 10% more than the rack version. A synth would have to offer compelling synthesis and great sound, a remarkable user interface, and lack of a module version to make me consider buying another keyboard. Andromeda anyone? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif What looks cooler to you - a studio with a whole bunch of keyboards, or a studio with one or two keyboards and a whole slew of racks? I like the look of one or two keyboards and a slew of racks. The only time I like seeing a bunch of keys is if they are older beasts that have no module form...I would never think a studio less cool to see a stack of an Obie 4-voice, a Yamaha DX1, and a Prophet-5. Do you find that you're less inclined to program a synth if it's racked, or does that not make a difference to you? It makes no difference because I love to program. I generally work from the front panel of most of my devices when programming. The exception is the Yamaha SY99, which is programmed from an editor. Yamaha provided an inelegant OS with that sucker. [edited to fix some wack UBB code.] This message has been edited by aeon@mediaone.net on 06-25-2001 at 11:49 AM Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Originally posted by coyote: Yeah, so instead of schlepping around four or five keyboards they schlep a PIANO! Do you really think Billy Joel and Elton John schlep their own pianos??? I think it's safe to say they probably have someone to do that. Heck, I bet they have someone other than themselves tune the thing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 You're kidding, right? I thought Elton could carry a piano ALL BY HIMSELF! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif But the concept still applies. Someone's gotta move the piano. So if you're already doing that, what diff is it gonna make to carry 4 synths? Originally posted by steadyb: Do you really think Billy Joel and Elton John schlep their own pianos??? I think it's safe to say they probably have someone to do that. Heck, I bet they have someone other than themselves tune the thing too. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.