Michael Jones Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Try this on for size. 1. Submission of a composition no longer than 5 minutes. 2. Genres to be determined by the moderator (the world famous Mr. Bryce) 3. Must be in MP3 format. 4. The winning submissions will be determined by popular vote or by vote of a selected board of forum members selected by moderator (again the world renowned Mr. Bryce) 5. Aside from vocals ALL parts of the composition MUST BE performed on a keyboard irrespective of where the instrumentation is acquired from (samplers, mods, soft synths, etc). Afterall this is a Keyboard Magazine forum and therefore must stay within the context of same. Winning submissions MUST BE ABLE TO PROVE that the the submissions were performed via keyboard. 6. All intellectual property rights and recognition are the sole property of the composer. 7. All submissions MUST BE ORIGINAL. Any loops or usage of samples from commercial sources MUST follow the same legal responsibilities and/or rights that would normally be used in any published material. All worthwhile endeavors have rules. The MP3 format levels the playing field. For the present the MP3 format is the accepted internet format for using and sharing audio files. This idea has great possibilities.... I suggest that the winners in each genre be profiled in Keyboard Magazine. I would also suggest that there be established a winners hall of fame. And at certain intevals the process be repeated. Again and again. With a little insight and careful planning this compilation idea could become a linchpin to bigger and better opportunities. NOTE: For all those who are MP3 haters....As mentioned above, the format levels the playing field. You are musicians. Your music matters. You are also indies. Not only do you have to compose and record, you are also required to be engineers. You will use the best MP3 encoder you can find or to which you have access. It is in your blood...you can't help it...you will do what you must do to be the best...nuff said!!! Remember the Music! Michael This message has been edited by midirat on 05-19-2001 at 05:55 PM "I may be a craven little coward, but I'm a greedy craven little coward." Daffy Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 A. Too many rules B. It's not a contest, so no need to declare a winner C. MP3 is an inferior format to CD D. Too many rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc: (and I heartily agree!!!) Well I don't think it should get that complicated...also I'm not interested in being on a Musicplayer comp but I am interested in being on a Keyboard Forum comp. I don't think Keyboard players are showcased together often enough. I also think there should only be one decision maker who takes all the ideas and is trusted to come up with the final rules and plan of action. DAVE BRYCE Dave is the one who will make this happen...only he can determine how much time he wants to spend on it and he's already been accepted as an authority/leader in our small community. (Dennis/Troll might disagree ) I think I'm right in assuming what we all want is a CD we can listen to that has a bunch of nice keyboard pieces...I think we also agree that we want as many of us involved as possible. Am I missing a goal here? quote:Why not make an MP3 CD, since we all have computers? It would take any time limits off people. Plus, one can submit more than one pieces. Again I think this complicates things unnessarily...plus I never sit down to listen to music at my computer unless I have to. Actually when I'm not working I spend very little time on the computer. quote:No, it is not possible for all people to show something worthwhile in 4 mins. As I said, there are certain genres that cannot simply be represented this way. By imposing a 4 min. barrier, you exclude some genres altogether. I disagree with this, if you have a 12 minute piece there must be a shorter movement within that piece that can be included on the comp. Either way...I don't think it would be a big deal to make an exception here or there on the time limit. I think most of us can make a statement in 5 minutes or less but one or two 5-10 minute songs seems doable if it's really necessary. DAVE should be the judge and jury on these decisions...either we trust him to make a good CD or we don't...if you don't well why take part at all? steadyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jones Posted May 20, 2001 Author Share Posted May 20, 2001 Originally posted by steadyb: A. Too many rules B. It's not a contest, so no need to declare a winner C. MP3 is an inferior format to CD D. Too many rules I agree to a point. Although not specifically or intentionally a contest, it is in effect a competion of sorts. There is only so much room on a CD. There will be many more submissions than there is available space. So indeed there must be rules. Rules that normally govern any competition for recognition should be applied here. Like I mentioned in the original post, this compilation idea has possibilities that may go well beyond what anyone here has heretofore considered. The CD/MP3 comment is argumentative and misses the point of my original point of using MP3s in the first place. Remember the Music! Michael "I may be a craven little coward, but I'm a greedy craven little coward." Daffy Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faruk Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Originally posted by steadyb: A. Too many rules B. It's not a contest, so no need to declare a winner C. MP3 is an inferior format to CD D. Too many rules I must agree with you man on every point, esspecialy that this is not a contest. But I still think that we should use mp3.com for presentation of all songs, `cos everybody here deserves a right to be heard by everybody, and maybe to print more then one compilation, and to use it in charity domain. Fat But Fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jones Posted May 20, 2001 Author Share Posted May 20, 2001 David Bryce being the sole judge of what is included on the CD puts entirely too much on his shoulders. Successful music is not the judgement of one person but the opinion of the masses. That is why I suggested the popular vote. Remember the Music! Michael "I may be a craven little coward, but I'm a greedy craven little coward." Daffy Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jones Posted May 20, 2001 Author Share Posted May 20, 2001 Originally posted by Faruk: I must agree with you man on every point, esspecialy that this is not a contest. But I still think that we should use mp3.com for presentation of all songs, `cos everybody here deserves a right to be heard by everybody, and maybe to print more then one compilation, and to use it in charity domain. Right On!!! The charity idea is fantastic! Remember the Music!!! Michael This message has been edited by midirat on 05-19-2001 at 07:20 PM "I may be a craven little coward, but I'm a greedy craven little coward." Daffy Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Successful music is not the judgement of one person but the opinion of the masses. That is why I suggested the popular vote. Well that's a silly statement in my opinion...Britteny Spears has been hailed by the masses as a viable artist. I also agree with SteadyB that this should not be a contest and/or a stepping stone to any individual's success. I don't expect MusicPlayer.com, Keyboard Mag. or any one here to be the coattails I ride to success... If you want accolades from Keyboard Magazine, send them a CD...if your music speaks for itself and you have "the support of the masses" then you'll probably end up on the cover. This comp (if I understood Dave correctly) is for the benefit of our Forum, why try to turn it into something else. I already know how I measure up against other players...I don't need a judge or a popular vote to verify that...if Dave decided my tune wasn't up to par with the rest of the submissions he receives I would gladly trust his opinion and look forward to hearing the others. If everyone is happy with 128 MP3s then that's fine with me...let's just keep this thing REALLY simple, please. This message has been edited by Steve LeBlanc on 05-19-2001 at 06:51 PM http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jones Posted May 20, 2001 Author Share Posted May 20, 2001 Brittany Spears was NEVER hailed by the masses as a viable artist. What she was hailed as was a MARKETABLE artist. BIG DIFFERENCE!!!! Most published music these days is not based upon artisanship, but rather on the hype that the record companies can muster and shove down the throats of the music buying public! This compilation is not about marketability, but rather an endeavor by musicians to put forth their best work to possibly be included in a compilation CD reflecting the best and most innovative artists that peruse this forum. I am amazed at the distaste some of you put forth at the idea that this suggestion of a possible launchpad to bigger and better is somehow incorrect. Remember the Music! Michael "I may be a craven little coward, but I'm a greedy craven little coward." Daffy Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Originally posted by midirat: Aside from vocals ALL parts of the composition MUST BE performed on a keyboard irrespective of where the instrumentation is acquired from (samplers, mods, soft synths, etc). Afterall this is a Keyboard Magazine forum and therefore must stay within the context of same. Winning submissions MUST BE ABLE TO PROVE that the the submissions were performed via keyboard. Sorry midirat, but this is ridiculous. Of course the piece should display our keyboard work, but what's wrong in performing along with a real drummer or something? ( Remember real drummers...?? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif ) marino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Originally posted by midirat: I am amazed at the distaste some of you put forth at the idea that this suggestion of a possible launchpad to bigger and better is somehow incorrect. It's just not what the original idea was about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jones Posted May 20, 2001 Author Share Posted May 20, 2001 Originally posted by marino: Sorry midirat, but this is ridiculous. Of course the piece should display our keyboard work, but what's wrong in performing along with a real drummer or something? ( Remember real drummers...?? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif ) marino Marino, there is nothing ridiculous about this at all. And also nothing wrong with performing along side a "real drummer". However, like I indicated in earlier posts, this is a keyboard forum. We are keyboardists. This is our opportunity to "show our stuff". I love players, whether it be drummers, guitarists. trombonists,or whatever. But that changes nothing. Our genre, keyboarding, is what we are about. Yes, we are musicians, but what my main thrust is aimed toward is elevating our skills to the level of presentation to our peers. A presentation that is totally ours. Live musicians, drummers or otherwise, are never to be disregarded. If you remove exclusivity of keyboarding, then the compilation becomes too generic. Remember the Music!!! Michael This message has been edited by midirat on 05-19-2001 at 09:54 PM "I may be a craven little coward, but I'm a greedy craven little coward." Daffy Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Originally posted by midirat: We are keyboardists. This is our opportunity to "show our stuff". I love players, whether it be drummers, guitarists. trombonists,or whatever. But that changes nothing. Our genre, keyboarding, is what we are about. Yes, we are musicians, but what my main thrust is aimed toward is elevating our skills to the level of presentation to our peers. A presentation that is totally ours. Live musicians, drummers or otherwise, are never to be disregarded. If you remove exclusivity of keyboarding, then the compilation becomes too generic. I think you're getting off track of the spirit of this. Dave's idea was, "hey, send me one song, 4 minutes, we'll make it a quick compilation of what everyone here is up to." You're over thinking this way too much. I really appreciate your enthusiasm and ideas, but as I said before... Too many rules. Dave set two and only two criteria: One song per, and a 4 minute time limit. Sweet and simple. Let's not over complicate it. Dave, where are you... please chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 midirat: I'm still not convinced, but maybe I should have clarified: The choice of "solo" playing strikes me as unfair because we (usually) have the means to sequence and multitrack entire orchestrations. So if my best expression is with an organ/bass/drums trio (that's not me, just an example) I could sequence an electronic imitation of trio playing, but I'm not allowed to perform with my original musicians. That sounds bizarre to me. Also, if I have a good home studio (which I have) I can overdub to death and get a deluxe orchestration, but what if I only had one instrument? That's risking of becoming very gear-dependent. These are the reasons why I would allow other players to partecipate, as long as the keyboard work is in the foreground. Anyway, let's the majority and Dave decide on this. marino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jones Posted May 20, 2001 Author Share Posted May 20, 2001 Originally posted by marino: midirat: I'm still not convinced, but maybe I should have clarified: The choice of "solo" playing strikes me as unfair because we (usually) have the means to sequence and multitrack entire orchestrations. So if my best expression is with an organ/bass/drums trio (that's not me, just an example) I could sequence an electronic imitation of trio playing, but I'm not allowed to perform with my original musicians. That sounds bizarre to me. Also, if I have a good home studio (which I have) I can overdub to death and get a deluxe orchestration, but what if I only had one instrument? That's risking of becoming very gear-dependent. These are the reasons why I would allow other players to partecipate, as long as the keyboard work is in the foreground. Anyway, let's the majority and Dave decide on this. marino Marino: I couldn't agree more! Absolutely sequence and overdub. We have numerous tools available to us as keyboard players that allow us to do many and varied things musically. If you can orchestrate a 144 piece orchestra then I say go for it. I never meant for the "proof" (perhaps verify would have been a better term) to mean that the submissions for the compilation had to be solo work in the conventional sense. My intention for including the "proof" thing was to eliminate the possibility of submissions being performances where an entire band was used to record a composition with the keyboard somewhere in the mix. And not to say that is a bad idea, just a different thrust (which may be another compilation CD) You may argue for viability here, but I would disagree. I still remain with my original thought of keeping most of the performance in the keyboard realm as this is a keyboard forum. Solo instruments are great. Loggins seems to have made a significant mark this way. Granted there is other orchestrations with his work, which gives credence to the "keyboard in the foreground" thought. OK, that will work. I never intended to limit the creativity of those who wish to contribute to the compilation. Quite the opposite. I encourage everyone who participates to use any tool available to them to create their best work. I know I am going to do exactly that! To clarify my original thought, my intent was to keep the CD in the realm of the skills and abilities of keyboardists, indies, and artists that reflect the best that read and/or participate in this forum. Perhaps some kind of synopsis explaining how the piece was created my be in order to acccompany the submissions. This would also give those who participate an avenue to show off their skills. So lets agree to disagree and let db make the decision. Remember the Music! Michael This message has been edited by midirat on 05-20-2001 at 11:02 AM "I may be a craven little coward, but I'm a greedy craven little coward." Daffy Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Hi guys... Sorry - studio day yesterday. Okay, here's what I had in mind. I'm not looking to do this for any other reason than to make a nice little compilation for all of us. I'm not trying to get signed. I'm not trying to sell discs. I'm not trying to have a competition - maybe some of you missed the part where I said that if we have more than one CD's worth of material, we make another disc. I just thought that it might be nice for those of us who take the time to participate in this forum to have a collection of the music made by each other. That's all. I know I'd sure like that. So, I don't want to judge anyone's music. I don't consider myself worthy of judging anyone's music, nor do I thnk anyone else is. Elther you like something, or you don't. Some people like some things, some people like other things (see the RAP thread, figure A). This is what led to my original two suggestions: 1) You guys send me stuff. I put the stuff in the Masterlink until I have a CD's worth of stuff. Then I burn a bunch of CDs, and send them to anyone ON THE FORUM who wants them. One track per person. Try and keep them around four minutes. If there's more than one CD worth of stuff, I do a second disc. My only problem here is that it might end up costing me a bunch of time and money if too many people want them. Maybe, if anyone who sends me a track also sends me a dollar or two to cover the discs and the postage, that would work, but I'd rather not solicit cash from people unles you guys are comfortable with that, because I have NO wish to make any money off of this, or off of you guys - I just wanna cover my expenses. As far as the folks outside the country go, I'd probably leave a few slots in reserve so they have time to get me their stuff, too. I do have a feeling that this will end up being two discs or so. Also, I don't think that I'd wanna do artwork, or take the time to do labels...way too much of a time expenditure, and the labels and cartridges for the printer cost some serious cash. 2) We do it on MP3.com in something resembling the manner that I described on my original post in the other thread. Then, there's no money or postage or time involved. Let's agree on one of these two options first, then we'll figure out the particulars from there, okay? One other thing - why is there now a second thread? What was wrong with the other one? dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jones Posted May 20, 2001 Author Share Posted May 20, 2001 db: Mistake 1. I did miss the original part about there being more than one CD. Mistake 2. The reason I started the second thread was to bring to the forefront some possible ideas that I felt needed to be addressed. Mistake 3. This is a fantastic idea. And in my grandeur I thought perhaps we could make this into something that reaches into the realm of extraordinary. Mistake 4. Suggestion for defined genres was to insure each had its chance to have a least one track on the CD. Please refer to Mistake 1. I stand corrected! Remember the Music! Michael "I may be a craven little coward, but I'm a greedy craven little coward." Daffy Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 'Preciate dat. In order to avoid confusion, I'm going to close this thread, though...let's keep this discussion to the original thread, okay? Thanks, guys... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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