Music degree: want it, got it, like it, use it?

[fet]

Sometimes I speculate that I ought to have a college music degree - not that it would help my career as a guitarist - but to certify to the world, and to myself, that I am a dedicated player, listener, and thinker about music.

 

One hard part seems to be finding a college or university that accepts the pick-style guitar as a legitimate instrument - at least in my part of the country. The European classical tradition dominates our local music departments, it seems.

 

Any of you out there have a four-year degree in music theory or performance? Any thoughts or ideas as its validity or utility in the world of 2001 and beyond? Thanks.

[Philip OKeefe]

fet:

 

You forgot to mention what part of the country you're in!

 

There's several different schools. Berklee in Boston comes to mind as does USC in LA.

 

Where are you at?

 

I think a degree is a good thing to have in general. There's other options besides a performance or theory degree, and with the theory degree, pick guitar should really be a non-issue for the most part anyway. Besides all that, you might want to consider classical lessons anyway... why? Broaden your horizons! One of my clients just graduated from UCR here in Riverside. He's a jazz / funk / rock kinda guy in his band, but ended up with some serious classical chops, and it only helped his playing in the other genres.... Just a thought...

 

 

Phil O'Keefe

Sound Sanctuary Recording

Riverside CA

http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html

email: pokeefe777@msn.com

[Tedster]

A music degree is a marvelous thing to have if you want to teach. Other than that, it's probably better to have a different degree. If you want to learn music to become a better player, yeah, go to Berklee or GIT etc. If you want a piece of paper to get you a gig, the gig is in your chops. If you want a piece of paper to get you a day gig, there are plenty of options.

 

I started out in school majoring in broadcast communications. Didn't take me long to figure out that a degree in that was basically worthless, because, you either had the chops or you didn't. There were a lot of people going to school with no talent as broadcasters, getting worthless degrees (because they couldn't find a job in broadcasting because they had no chops)...conversely, the ones with the talent would get jobs and quit school, why get a degree when you can get a job without it?

 

Music is kinda the same way. Get a bachelors or masters and teach grade school. Get a PhD and teach college. But, if you're a smokin' player, you don't need a degree to get a good gig. If you're not up to par as a player, all the degrees in the world won't help.

 

IMHO, you're better off getting a degree that you can take anywhere, such as business or some sort of certificate in electronics.

[Yuri T.]

Originally posted by Tedster:

A music degree is a marvelous thing to have if you want to teach. Other than that, it's probably better to have a different degree. IMHO, you're better off getting a degree that you can take anywhere, such as business or some sort of certificate in electronics.

 

I'll second that notion. If you're going to college, major in something that can get you steady work. You can always minor in music. I took two years of music thoery. It was very helpful, especially in communicating musical ideas to others and in composition. Take private lessons and practice to perfect your chops. Play gigs in a band to work on performance.

 

"There is no try, only do." -Yoda

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by fet:

Sometimes I speculate that I ought to have a college music degree - not

One hard part seems to be finding a college or university that accepts the pick-style guitar as a legitimate instrument - at least in my part of the country. The European classical tradition dominates our local music departments, it seems.

 

I came out of high school naively thinking college would be a different thing: a true pursuit of knowledge.

 

Wrong.

 

I was a music major for 1 day.

 

Show up for orientation. I'm found wandering around the performing arts building trying to find the right room. I'm stopped by a professor: "can I help you find where you're going?" he asked. I told him I was looking for the music major orientation. He then asked me what instrument I played and I told him guitar.

 

Then he asked me what style. I told him a little of everything - jazz, classical, rock

 

The moment I said rock he threw his hands in the air and said derisively "that's just a bunch of pentatonic scales!!" and walked off.

 

So I turned around, walked out of the building and changed my major to an equally useless designation of "art".

 

It didn't occur to me then, because I had been brain washed successfully by years of public school indoctrination, that you probably shouldn't go to school to "learn" something that is inherently creative. I feel you should come to it on your own, and if you really love it and have talent at it you'll be able to educate yourself.

 

I have friends that graduated as MMs, and I've taught a few as well, and in the long run the money turned out for the piece of paper versus the job opportunities are nominal I think. Unless the nation realizes the value

of music education one day and starts hiring really good teachers that's not going to change I think....

 

I didn't want to teach school anyhow, nor be a classical guitarist: I was a fool for the system. Now I'm still a fool, and a poor one at that, so you shouldn't listen to me.

 

http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[Tedster]

>>I didn't want to teach school anyhow, nor be a classical guitarist: I was a fool for the system. Now I'm still a fool, and a poor one at that, so you shouldn't listen to me.

 

Hardly. You make some excellent points, Chip, like about going to school to do something that's inherently creative. There is a value in getting instruction, but pursuing a degree? Also, the value of music education in general.

 

Really ticks me off that so many kids are in school band, what have you, and learn clarinet, trumpet, sax, etc...only to graduate from school never to pick up their instrument again. Every town should have a "community band", where anyone from grade schoolers to old timers can get their instrument out and make music.

[KenElevenShadows]

Professor's response to someone playing jazz, classical, and rock:

 

>> The moment I said rock he threw his hands in the air and said derisively "that's just a bunch of pentatonic scales!!" and walked off.>>

 

But you only spent one day there! I can't help but feel that you may have screwed yourself out of a potentially interesting education because one person had a crappy attitude and was close-minded. Really, schools and teachers come in all shapes and sizes, and you shouldn't judge university or music education on the basis of one idiot. Er, judge them based on a myriad of idiots!

 

Music is a creative thing, and knowing a lot about music can potentially widen your palette.

 

 

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Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

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[Dylan]

I think the decision to go to a music school should really depend on your goals as a musician and as a businessman. Do you want to learn or make money right away? How much time and money do you want to invest in your education? These are some questions that you should ask yourself before making any commitments to school. I think one of the false impressions that many get from a music school is that once you have graduated that you will have a better chance at finding work than others or will be held in a higher status. The only thing that I can think of that closely resembles this idea is that you might get a gig through someone you know at the school. But, once you're out of school you are just as eligible as anyone once you hit the pavement.

 

Having that degree in your hand doesn't mean a thing to most people in this business. It all comes down to experience, your chops, and connections. As they say, "a college degree and a quarter will buy you a cheap cup of coffee". However, if you gained better chops, insight, and overall experience at the school then sure, you might be in better shape than before to find work. But this in no way means that you will have better luck than anyone else just because you have the paper in hand. I've heard of people who have been turned down for gigs because when they were asked about their previous experience they said "hey, I went to XYZ music school, so I've got to be good".

 

For those who care, I graduated with a degree in Music Synthesis from Berklee College of Music in Boston. For me, going to Berklee was a decision that I made as I wanted to learn a broad range of music that I just couldn't get locally. To this day I can't think of another place where you can study so many different styles of music or careers in music. In my case, I ended up studying guitar and recording. People who went to Berklee all had their own reasons for attending. For myself, it was mainly to improve my chops and learn more about the industry and the careers offered within it. I loved music and wanted a career in it, but I was unsure which area I wanted to work in. Others who went were already badass players who had clear career goals and just wanted to make connections and then get the hell outta there.

 

One of the advantages (or disadvantage depending on your goals) to going to Berklee is that if you want a Bachelor's degree that you can get it by taking only a modest number of non-music courses on top of the music classes. Other music schools only offer a diploma or certificate in music, which might not be enough for everyone. I didn't want to take the general ED courses at first, but almost all of them were very rewarding and I had a great time, so I'm glad that I did it.

 

Music school is not for everyone, and it cannot replace gigging, work experience, and touring by any means, nor does it try to. Looking back, I wouldn't trade my 4 years at Berklee for anything. The people that I met and the knowledge that I learned are precious to me. If I could change anything though, I think that I would of liked to work in the biz for a while at first and then attended school later in life once I had clearer career goals. But hey, hindsight is the best sight, right? If someone dropped a load of cash on my lap today I'd go back there tomorrow and study Film Scoring among other things that I just didn't have time for before.

 

The other school of thought is to take the money that you would have spent on college and apply it to touring, gear, a small studio, etc, and go into business for yourself. This can be hard though, especially if your getting funding through family or a bank. Try asking your parents or a bank to give you $20,000 to start a studio or go on tour instead of going to school when your fresh out of high school. If they don't laugh out loud or disown you, then you're very fortunate ;-). I know that most people in this biz get their start without school, but I know for myself that it would of taken me 10-15 years to learn what I did at Berklee If I didn't go. This is especially true in the area of audio technology and recording. I probably wouldn't have bothered learning about audio technology principles if I had just gone out one my own and started a recording studio. More later, my hands are tired of typing.

 

-Dylan

[rumpelstiltskin.]

Originally posted by Yuri T.:

"There is no try, only do." -Yoda

 

try not. do or do not -- there is no try.

 

get it right, slacker!

[Marvster]

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I agree in general but would expand on that just a bit. I have a BM in comp from UMKC Conservatory -- a relatively unknown school staffed with absolutely wonderful professors. In particular, I picked up the foundation in composition and electronic music that allowed me to absorb subsequent musical ideas and technologies quickly. Foundation is *everything*.

 

Here's my take on whether the degree helped or not when getting various jobs:

 

1) As a player in Kansas City: Helped, but mostly because UMKC has some cachet in its home town.

 

2) Roland product specialist: Helped, though I got my initial interview on the strength of a demo tape. The degree had nothing to do with a subsequent promotion.

 

3) Pro composer in Los Angeles: Didn't help. Well, the foundation helped to write decent music, but the fact that I had a slip of paper meant nothing. I was never once asked by a client if I had a music degree.

 

4) Assistant editor at Keyboard: Helped. I had a great inside track on the job, but the degree was a leg up in the credibility department. I don't think it helped with any subsequent promotions.

 

So a pattern emerges: For playing or writing music, IMHO it's all about chops and business acumen. But there are wonderful music industry jobs where I think having the music degree made a difference. In all cases, it won't mean shite if you don't perform once you get the gig.

 

I also made two different attempts at an advanced degree, both of which I quit after only a few months because -- as a comp major -- I couldn't stand what I felt was a fairly useless devotion to arcane analysis.

 

One more thing: My sister (a professor), laments the "consumer" approach to undergrad, i.e., "I only want to take classes I'll use in the 'real world.'" Trade school and college are really designed to be different environments. Both have their merits, but both have to be appreciated for different things. I hate to be ageist about this, but I really think the younger you are, the more you may benefit from the general experience of a college education, regardless of the degree.

 

Marv