Master Zap Posted July 23, 2001 Share Posted July 23, 2001 Aaah, where do I draw the line. Yes that line. Well... I'd draw it right over [i]there[/i], but this [i]ruler[/i] isn't [i]straight[/i] enough, and I should really get a straigher one first... stainless polished steel... or maybe I should buy a new laser guided thingy... well.... I just need a liiittle more equipment and [i]then[/i] I can draw the line. Forsure. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] /Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecreationalThinker Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 I suffer from the same perfectionist bug, but I have stumbled across something which really gets it out of my system: Whenever I am obsessing about a particular song, I just change gears completely and work on something noise-based. I love to mess with sounds, so I keep a bank or two of random sounds that I load up and play around with. For me, there's nothing like trying to manipulate non-pitched noises to get me out of that "it has to be perfect in all regards" mode. I don't worry about melody, timing or arrangement. I just work with the sounds and try to get a particular "feel". After about a half hour of this, I find that my ears and perception are much fresher, and I can approach my other projects more objectively. I also find that I tend to use less sonic events to communicate more information after one of these sessions. With fewer tone colors, I have less need to obsess... Just my nickel's worth... ------------------ What's on, your mind? I'm not a "people" person, I'm a "thing" person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sign Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 Harold, I told you before, you are definitely one of the good guys. Peace to you bro! The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rold Posted July 24, 2001 Author Share Posted July 24, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by Emile: [b]Hey Rold and all, indeed a great thread! The expression I was referring to is "Enculer des mouches" as in "J'ai une tendance à enculer les mouches". Which means "I tend to butt fuck flies". Emile[/b][/quote] LOL - it sounds hilarious to me and my wife, but unfortunately the in-laws have heard - and used that expression. I thought maybe they hadn't - they're NB francophones. Just wanted to catch them off guard with a little shock-valued statement [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rold Posted July 24, 2001 Author Share Posted July 24, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by Master Zap: [b]I just need a liiittle more equipment and [i]then[/i] I can draw the line. Forsure. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] /Z[/b][/quote] Man, if you try and stuff any more equippment into that space you're going to have to hover into your seat [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rold Posted July 24, 2001 Author Share Posted July 24, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by RecreationalThinker: [b]I also find that I tend to use less sonic events to communicate more information after one of these sessions. With fewer tone colors, I have less need to obsess... [/b][/quote] hmm...I wonder what record-scratching will sound like over this classical bit? [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rold Posted July 24, 2001 Author Share Posted July 24, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by sign: [b]Harold, I told you before, you are definitely one of the good guys. Peace to you bro![/b][/quote] Well...ummm...err...shucks...cut that out - you're embarassing me! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Peace to you to, man! Harold meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 For whatever reason, this is an issue I have rarely had to struggle with, although Lord knows I've had to put up with enough other people who've nit picked stuff into oblivion. I am usually pretty darned good about knowing when I've done my best work and should just quit, and when further refinements would still result in meaningful improvements. I attribute this to a gift I have for being able to see things in the "big picture" well. This kind relates to what I said in the "near death experiences" thread about the mystical and the logical working together. I listen to music in a "mystical", "intuitive" or "right-brain" mode first and if something strikes me wrong, then I will focus on tracking down the source of the "wrongness" and dealing with it in a logical fashion. Often if you take what you think is an imperfection and you listen to it in context it's perfectly fine. In fact, trying to analyze or fix every detail usually squeezes the emotional impact out of the music IMO. Another "kiss of death" that I often see in people is comparison - the idea that somebody else's record or performance "blows yours away" (which some have already alluded to here). I think it's pointless to ask yourself whether your production "stacks up" to George Massenburg or whether Joe Satriani could blow you away on guitar. Again this is trying to quantify something that can't be quantified. Right now, when you're making your music, it's YOU making it, not George and not Joe. Something different is going to happen than when either of them is recording, and it will be unique to you. If you can convey the emotion you want to convey through the music, you will have done your job, and you may do a better job than your "heroes" at any given moment. Listen to your work for what it is, not as "compared" to somebody else's. Their work is theirs and yours is yours. If everybody were using Joe Satriani as a standard for a guitarist, there would be no point in Keith Richards or the Ramones even being here. And personally, I'd rather listen to either of them than Satriani. Music is a little like alchemy - the way things combine is more important than the individual elements, and the things that combine well may not be the things you would logically think would work. I think the magic "glue" that holds stuff together is that you love what you're doing and you're having fun. If anything is getting in the way of that, you should re-think how you're working. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]Right now, when you're making your music, it's YOU making it, not George and not Joe. Something different is going to happen than when either of them is recording, and it will be unique to you. If you can convey the emotion you want to convey through the music, you will have done your job, and you may do a better job than your "heroes" at any given moment. Listen to your work for what it is, not as "compared" to somebody else's. Their work is theirs and yours is yours.[/b][/quote] Those are some wise words, Lee... Tough words to live by, though... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rold Posted July 25, 2001 Author Share Posted July 25, 2001 [quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]I listen to music in a "mystical", "intuitive" or "right-brain" mode first and if something strikes me wrong, then I will focus on tracking down the source of the "wrongness" and dealing with it in a logical fashion. Often if you take what you think is an imperfection and you listen to it in context it's perfectly fine. [/b][/quote] hmmm...good point. I listen to other people's music with the right side most of the time, but my own I can't seem to take an intuitive approach with it until after the first mix. Maybe a reversal of this approach might be a good way to move forward.... [quote] [b]In fact, trying to analyze or fix every detail usually squeezes the emotional impact out of the music IMO.[/b][/quote] I agree, when it comes to the writing process. With production, I think it's sometimes better to fix ALMOST every detail for the emotional quality. Say it's a "balls-to-the-wall" hard rock song. If, say, there's an intro or a swell where the song kicks in full, I think it makes sense to take the time to line up all the transients, from an emotional perspective. I love songs like that - an intro or a swell, and then BOOM - it hits you hard, and and the impact is dead-on timing wise. [quote] [b]Another "kiss of death" that I often see in people is comparison - the idea that somebody else's record or performance "blows yours away" (which some have already alluded to here). I think it's pointless to ask yourself whether your production "stacks up" to George Massenburg or whether Joe Satriani could blow you away on guitar. Again this is trying to quantify something that can't be quantified. Right now, when you're making your music, it's YOU making it, not George and not Joe. Something different is going to happen than when either of them is recording, and it will be unique to you. If you can convey the emotion you want to convey through the music, you will have done your job, and you may do a better job than your "heroes" at any given moment. Listen to your work for what it is, not as "compared" to somebody else's. Their work is theirs and yours is yours. If everybody were using Joe Satriani as a standard for a guitarist, there would be no point in Keith Richards or the Ramones even being here. And personally, I'd rather listen to either of them than Satriani..[/b][/quote] ...or Steve Vai for that matter. I always thought Satch had more taste with his playing. I totally agree with the comparison thing - with writing I fall into this trap 99% of the time. hmm...maybe I haven't actually been dealing with writer's block for ten years - maybe it's a question of comparison, trying to live up to other writers' abilities. I'm going to have to give this some thought and try writing again. Thanks Lee - I think this point is going to pull me out of a ten-year rut!.. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [quote] [b]Music is a little like alchemy - the way things combine is more important than the individual elements, and the things that combine well may not be the things you would logically think would work. I think the magic "glue" that holds stuff together is that you love what you're doing and you're having fun. If anything is getting in the way of that, you should re-think how you're working. --Lee[/b][/quote] ...and rethink how I'm working is exactly what I'm going to do. Thanks again Lee! Harold meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 [b]With production, I think it's sometimes better to fix ALMOST every detail for the emotional quality. Say it's a "balls-to-the-wall" hard rock song. If, say, there's an intro or a swell where the song kicks in full, I think it makes sense to take the time to line up all the transients, from an emotional perspective. I love songs like that - an intro or a swell, and then BOOM - it hits you hard, and and the impact is dead-on timing wise.[/b] Well yeah, but that is only one example, and one in which it IS better to "fix" details. There are lots of examples I've seen where it doesn't increase the impact at all to "fix" something. Like comping together 97 takes of a vocal track to get a part that might be totally "perfect" but usually sounds pretty emotionally lackluster because it has no "flow" the way a complete or near-complete take would. Or sometimes you might solo an instrument and it doesn't sound good, and you spend a lot of time trying to "fix" it when actually if you listen to it in the context of all the other instruments, it sounds really good. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, and I see it over and over again with novice DAW users. I'm glad my post was helpful to you. Yeah, the comparison thing can kill ya. I think what happens with most people (it has certainly happened with me when I've suffered writer's block) is that you don't really appreciate the things that are unique and special about what you have to say, because you live with yourself every day. They aren't that special to YOU... LOL... but you have to trust that what you take for granted about your own world view might well have a very profound effect on somebody else who is used to thinking differently. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 No way! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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