Allan Speers Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 I've been looking at expanding my collection of all things bronze. Have recently discovered "suspended" orchestral cymbals. Wazz the deal? One would assume that these must be made to a very high quality, no? So, do they work as drumkit cymbals? If so, how do they typically sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 They are probably marketing something as "suspended cymbals", but all the term really means is that a cymbal is, well, suspended. Hung from something. A good classical percussionist will use whatever sounds best for the part, or what the conductor prefers- Even a trash can lid on occasion. Most times it's something a whole lot more subtle than that! I'm not a classical percussionist but I take a very similar approach, only no conductor, so I make all the calls on what cymbal to use for a given piece or a gig. I would use something sold as a "suspended cymbal" if it sounded right, although considering it's new, it's not likely to sound as right as an old Istanbul Zildjian K or something else with the range of overtones you can only get from a happy accident of hand lathing and hand hammering. That said, it's very common for me to only use suspended cymbals on a kit. I only have a couple heavier cymbals that are not excessively damped by putting them on the usual cymbal stand. Even with a trick minimum-contact rubber washer, but that helps. You've probably set a cymbal on one of your fingers before and played it that way- if not you should- that's more like a suspended cymbal sounds. Get a cymbal stand with a boom and some rope, tie a knot in the rope, and suspend a cymbal from it- voila! All but the heaviest cymbals will sound a whole lot liver and more different this way. Actually you might find it takes a far more delicate touch to use a suspended ride cymbal, as without all that damping, it rings and rings and rings... One thing to think about, is that many more cymbals sound great with mallets than with sticks. It's harder to find a great ride for a kit than a cymbal that sounds cool as a suspended cymbal played with mallets. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Very good post Ted! I am a orchestral percussionist myself and you hit the nail on the head as far as we use what sounds best. In general though some of my fav. cymbals are Zildjian Constantinoples. They are very thin and respond very quickly. This is why "orchestral" cymbals are good for well, orchestral music because you can get a very soft "good" sound. Orchestral cymbals are generally much thinner than "rock" cymbals so I tend to not use my symphony cymbals on my kit. I have lots of Constantinoples which are anywhere from $200 to over $600 (for crash cymbals) and one of the cymbals I reach for most is a 16" Wuhan which is simply incredible. I found it at a local music store a few years ago for $40 because the guy at the shop said it was a "crappy Wuhan". It's the perfect Debussy cymbal! Donnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Hi Donnie, Great to hear from you. When you say Constantinoples, do you mean the new ones or the vintage ones? I had a new one for a while, it was really quite heavy... it was kinda cool but I sold it. A lot of my kit cymbals are very, very light... a jazz approach. Some are very heavy though- I have a wonderful 70s Paiste 602 23" cymbal that is a great "stadium" ride cymbal- way too loud for most gigs- but it makes a fantastic suspended cymbal- just explosive, and gorgeous. My other favorite suspended cymbal (for ride or mallets) is a Spizzichino- I don't know if you've ever heard of those, currently hand made in Italy by a one man operation, with jazz in mind, but it is capable of the most wonderful subtlety and delicacy and has an extremely beautiful and complex sound. Ah bliss! Many times it's my only cymbal. We do a lot of things with a jazzy drum kit with orchestral type calfskin drums- Lefima bass drums, 18" freefloating tom, Gladstone snare w/gut- and vibraphone with suspended cymbals, gongs, and chimes. Love all that stuff! Could talk orchestral percussion for days, and would love to! Right now I'm looking for a quieter snare to complement my monstrous 7" deep tympani copper Gladstone... I was attracted by the Blackswamp solid shell snare with the Multi-sonic strainer- seems very versatile and capable of subtle effects... any experience with those, or other recommended makes of snare drum for subtle effects with wire snares? Looking for a dark mellow sound, nothing too crispy... A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted April 14, 2004 Author Share Posted April 14, 2004 Oh my, a 23" 602? AND a Spizz? That's livin' the good life! Thanks guys for all the info. I have a clear picture now. These are best used in a kit as specialty, accent cymbals. -And yes, I just heard a couple of EXPENSIVE Constantinoples (new ones) that were amazing. Thin, airy, and full of surprises. just as described above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 I believe there is a difference in the make-up of cymbals that are designed for orchestral purposes versus drumset. My Sabian HH 18-inch Suspended Cymbal is unique and sounds or feels like no other 18-inch cymbal I own or have played. This isn't to say that you can use other cymbals for suspended cymbals obviously. When I'm doing studio work, I also use my Sabian HH 16-inch Thin Crash and my Sabian HH 18-inch Crash Ride for suspended cymbal work. I'm sure you can find a cymbal that sounds similar to a cymbal that is marketed as a "suspended cymbal" ... but the labeling just helps to make the search a little easier. The weight and response seems to be perfect when it comes to rolling on the cymbal. The way my suspended cymbal speaks, when used as it was designed for, is just incredible. Every time I play with a full orchestra or a group of percussionists, and I use my suspended, they come over to find out what exactly it is! Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 After hearing quite a few of these now, both old and new, I'd say that they are no different from a regular ultra-thin cymbal with extensive hammering. I suspect, though, that Zildjian hand-picks these, which is reflected in the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 On the other end of the spectrum, one of my favorite rides ever was actually a marching crash cymbal. A drummer I once played with used a 20" A. Zildjian Z-Mac for a ride, and it was fabulous. It came from his high school band director, when the other one in the pair cracked. So the price was right, too. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by Jode: On the other end of the spectrum, one of my favorite rides ever was actually a marching crash cymbal. A drummer I once played with used a 20" A. Zildjian Z-Mac for a ride, and it was fabulous. It came from his high school band director, when the other one in the pair cracked. So the price was right, too.I'm not at all surprised- the moral of the story should be, try anything and everything, and if it doesn't sound great with a stick, try it with a mallet. You NEVER know what will or won't work! A wuhan trash cymbal can be just the thing for Debussy, or a marching crash can make a great kit ride cymbal... A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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