What are the best inexpensive crashes & hats?

[Brakka]

My housemate is a begginning drummer who is in a band with some of his friends. He has a 70's Ludwig kit (no bottom heads) with a maple Yamaha snare. He doesn't know much about drumming yet, and when he bought the kit he got some cheap hats and two used Zildjian K ride cymbals. The rides are practically identical 20-inchers. They both sound good, but he doesn't have a crash.

 

I'm going to be using his kit to record some stuff, but I need at least one crash and maybe some lighter hats that sound better than the bad ones he has. If I could find some very inexpensive ones, I might just buy them and give them to my housemate as a gift (and as thanks for letting me use his kit).

 

What are the best inexpensive crashes & hats out there? Are any of the entry-level crashes & hats worth buying? Of course I'd like to play them before purchasing, but cymbals in general are so cheap, I'm not really worried about it (I would never buy a guitar or without playing it first).

 

I do have an extra cymbal stand sitting around (don't ask- I've got a lot of stuff ).

 

What do you guys think?

[Blue Strat]

Take a look at your local pawn shops and in the used gear section of the local music stores. If it sounds good to you, it is good.

 

I like the cheap Wuhan China cymbals (I've got a 12" China), but I haven't heard their other cymbals. My other cymbals are Paiste 502's (16" crash & 14" hats) and a Sabian (20" ride).

[HiRoller]

I recently tried the Zildjian ZBT and Sabian B8 prepacks- hats, crash, ride set for ~$200, and thought they sounded horrible. You can save a little by buying used top notch cymbals. I just bought a used set of Zildjian New Beat hats for $165 and they cost $225 new.

[freelance]

Most inexpensive cymbals do not record well at all. The Zildjain ZBT's the Sabian B8's or the Paiste lower lines (303's , etc) all come up short

 

Cheaper hats can maybe get by if played in the closed position (and kept low in the mix) but when you play them in the half open the sound is lacking.

 

What makes cymbals sond good are the complex harmonics and overtones that creat a full and "warmer" sound. Cheap cymbals can't create these complex sound waves, so they come across as too bright, or too harsh.

 

If you have access to used gear this may be a better way to go - however, drummers rarely get rid of thier "good sounding cymbals"

 

That being said, I thing the Paiste 505 series has the "best" sounding crashes of any of the lower end stuff.

[djarrett]

Brakka:

I am more curious about this pair of 20" K Zildjian rides you mention.

First of all, ... it is very odd to see two 20" K rides on one kit. I am inclined to believe that you may have a pair of K Symphonic Concert Crash Cymbals.

I need more information to determine this. Are there any additional markings on the two cymbals?

Are they distinguished by a big black K silk screen, ... or is this just an engraved K stamp?

 

Please advise.

DJ

[Jode]

I bought the Wuhan S-Class cymbal package and have been pretty happy with it. I got rid of the ride, though; it is very heavy, dry, and pingy, a good blast beat/heavy metal ride if that's what you need, but nothing like my 30-year-old 21" A. The hi-hats and 16" crash were very nice. If you're looking for a 'lighter' sound as you said, I'd recommend going with the "Traditional" series (sounds more like Zildjian A's). But at $200 a shot for a whole cymbal package, you can't beat it. Their individual cymbals are very reasonable, too; Interstate Music, for one, carries them.

 

If you want to do your buddy a REAL favor, buy him some bottom hoops and heads. Who else besides me would like to see all the discarded resonant heads and hoops of the 70s and 80s in one big pile? A drummer's Tower of Babel.

[Brakka]

Originally posted by djarrett:

Brakka:

I am more curious about this pair of 20" K Zildjian rides you mention.

First of all, ... it is very odd to see two 20" K rides on one kit. I am inclined to believe that you may have a pair of K Symphonic Concert Crash Cymbals.

I need more information to determine this. Are there any additional markings on the two cymbals?

Are they distinguished by a big black K silk screen, ... or is this just an engraved K stamp?

Okay- I just went downstairs and looked at them again. You are a smart guy, Dendy.

 

There actually is no K at all, I don't know what I was remembering. No silkscreen, just the engraved "avedis Zildjian Co genuine turkish cymbals made in america." And they're 18-inchers. I'm sure you must be right about them being crash cymbals. They make nice rides.

http://www.cottagesoft.com/~songbird/perc/cymbal07.gif

 

Over the past few days I played a lot of hats & crashes at a few different stores. I didn't find any used hats, but there were a few used crashes.

 

All of the "budget" hats I played sucked bad. Worse than the hats that my housemate's kit already has (no-name clunkers). Played next to any Zildjians, there is no question that I need to save for some Quick Beats.

 

As far as inexpensive crashes, I played every 16" crash I saw under $100. The only one I liked at all was- the Sabian B8. To my ear, it sounded as nice as some others that were twice as much. I got a 16" B8 thin crash for $50.

 

Hey Jode: I mentioned the bottom head thing to my buddy after he got the kit (3 years ago), but I didn't recommend it to him- he knows less about drums than I do. If he puts money into this kit, he still needs a decent throne and hat stand. He never tunes the kit himself, so I think it's better for him to just stick with simple. I tune his kit for him whenever I use it for recording, and if it had bottom heads, I think it would start sounding bad faster- does that make sense?

 

Thanks everybody.

[Jode]

Having bottom heads requires that you actually work at tuning the drums. Yes, it makes for more work, if only a little. This is why all those lazy bastards took off their bottom heads back in the day, and up to this day: one head is easier to tune than two.

[ss]

For the money, B8 Pro is the way to go. You will be suprised with the bright sounds you can get out of these cymbals! Like I said....FOR THE MONEY!

[djarrett]

Also, at this past NAMM, I was by the Sabian booth, and they have re-launched an old name: Camber.

The camber cymbals that they had on display all sounded pretty good with the exception of the hihats.

 

DJ

[Jode]

You mean you actually hit an object with the word "Camber" written on it, and it made a sound even remotely pleasing to the ear? LIAR!

[djarrett]

No, actually, believe it or not ... I was pleasently surprised. Now, I would not use them myself to play out, but in the vien of B8, ZBT, etc, ... they were actually a better cymbal than I would have expected.

I would use the splash out. It was actually sweet.

 

Seems for some reason, that Sabian bought the name, and are resurrecting it. Why? ... I don't know.

 

I know when I was a in retail in the early 80's ... Camber was just a brass cymbal/nickel cymbal that was CHEAP!

These were no where close to the Camber of that day.

 

I wouldn't lie! Just saying that for the money range that the original post was seeking ... this is not a bad choice!

 

That is all,

DJ

[rumpelstiltskin.]

are the zildjian ZBT cymbals bad for $100? try to put yourself in the position of a bass player turned drummer who is getting into drumming for the first time, in a cover band.

 

i am more concerned with getting into the door quickly -- i know i'll want better in the future, but for now i need to be content with the best crap i can buy for cheap. i got a really sweet deal on a mismatched set of peavey radial pro 501s. i think i will be able to keep these for a long time, and refinish them if i want (the thought has crossed my mind). because of how they're boxed, i'm getting a black floor tom and wine red everything else. i'll take it for what i'm paying.

 

what should i look for in used cymbals? i mean,even i know zildjian, sabian, and paiste to some degree are the nice ones, but what makes a good cymbal sight unseen and what should i pay? what features am i looking for? how much is a reasonable cymbal budget for cymbals that match the quality of a peavey kit?

 

thanks for the help.

 

robb.

<>

[Jode]

My rule of thumb when it comes to getting a kit together on the cheap: scrimp on drums, splurge on cymbals. Give me a round shell with a head with not too many dents in it, and I can get a sound out of it that I can use, but a crap cymbal is a crap cymbal is a crap cymbal. There is no magic formula for choosing cymbals; get what sounds good to you. If you are buying 'sight unseen' as in eBay/online ordering, try to stick with higher-echelon cymbals, such as Zildjian A's or K's, Paiste Signature or 2002, and Sabian AA, AAX, HH, and Pro. A good ride and good hi-hats are the most critical.

 

As for your drums, head selection and tuning can make all the difference. I have a demo that an old band of mine did, and the drummer used my drums. Everyone compliments the drum sound on that recording, and it was a mismatched drumset with no two drums the same color, and all CHEAP - a Percussion Plus six-lug snare, 8x12 tom, and 14x20 bass; a CB700 8x10; Rogers 9x13; and a no-name 16x16 import floor tom. On the other hand, the cymbals were all Zildjian A's (and a Sabian china), but both drums and cymbals sounded great. Maybe because you couldn't see them.

[djarrett]

robb:

You will not be in bad shape regarding the mis-matched toms either. Due to the construction of the Peavey drums, it will be easy to recover that odd drum in the future.

There are places online and in the drum mags that sell the covering by the sheet. You may even be able to buy a sheet through Peavey ... if you explained to them that you bought a set and it was mis-matched in the box. Usually, on the Peavey sets, the wrap does not use a heavy contact cement, so replacement should be a snap. I even think that many of the companies have gone to double side tape, due to the great advancement in adhesives.

 

As far as cymbals, ... really ... try a pawn shop or ebay. Look for pro-quality used cymbals.

 

That is my take.

 

DJ

[rumpelstiltskin.]

yeah, i looked at a lot of peavey drums when i picked out my set, so i'm aware of the ease of refin (plus, a former drummer of mine refinished his drums once, so i was aware that it could be done in the first place). i work for peavey, so i'm not very worried about post-sale support from the manufacturer. that's also why i got a nicer kit (and a peavey kit at all) for a starter instead of some import cheapie.

 

as for cymbals, i'm not surprised it's all about sound, but i thought maybe there'd be some construction techniques or materials i could look for or look to avoid. i guess i'll just have to cruise the pawn shop and music store here, and whenever i get out of town, and find what i like. then ebay will have it cheaper.

 

thanks, ya'll.

 

robb.

[Brakka]

Great advice there from Jode & Dendy.

 

Play a bunch of different cymbals. Go to GC (or wherever) and go into the cymbal room. Play every cymbal there. Play them with your ear close to the cymbal (careful ) and play them at arm's length. Listen to the overtones carefully. If you come out in less than 1/2 hour, you're not done.

 

I play a number of different instruments, and there are brands that are good & not with every instrument. IMO, Zildjian cymbals are the Steinway or Les Paul of cymbals. They are almost always two steps above everything else. Especially the hats. (this does not include the Zidj zbt)

 

But I've read plenty of reviews of "lesser name" cymbals, and some of them are good- for the price. Cheap thin crashes & splashes can be okay, but cheap hats & heavy rides & crashes are often not.

 

I'd say just go play a bunch and get what you think sounds good.

[Bunny Knutson]

Originally posted by Brakka.:

IMO, Zildjian cymbals are the Steinway or Les Paul of cymbals.

I agree. Although, I must say that I am in love with my Paiste Dimensions 14" light hi hat.