Is it original ... or Memorex?

[djarrett]

In another thread regarding favorite cymbals, the comment was made regarding Vinnie's use of Stewart Copelands signature Hihat playing.

This brings up a great question. Is any of what we play ... *really* original? Of course, there is personal creativity, talent, chops, etc., ... but, aren't we really borrowing most of what we play ... for the most part?

Is there anything wrong with this? Why do we go to see other drummers play, go to clinics, concerts, buy videos, CD's, etc.

 

Granted we all strive for our "own" personal sound. As with most "Master" players, they have developed a signature sound, but if you really analyse it, it may be more of a hodge-podge of others drummers from our history ... sorta blended together.

 

I am looking for serious feedback here! Whatdayathinkaboutit!

 

DJ

[Steve LeBlanc]

I never tried to get my own sound on any instrument, I think there is absolutely no shame in using everything your ears have heard over a lifetime.

 

I don't flat out copy anyone, I was never great at doing that anyway...but I imagine you can hear many influences in my sound. I think the key to being a unique player is to listen to a lot of different music.

 

I think my album/CD collection is as large or larger than just about anyone...every few months I stop listening to ANYTHING...ideas flow from everywhere (things I've listened to that stuck in my memory, the city, my Son, etc.) and out of all that somehow something really creative and almost NEW comes out of it.

 

At least I hope so http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

Don't know if the above makes any sense but it's what came to mind anyway.

[Gaddabout]

Alright, DJ. I make a half-serious comment about a great drummer borrowing from another great drummer, and you turn it into a topic of controversy. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif

 

Of course stealing is acceptable. It is why drumming is referred to as a tradition. One guy does something and passes it on. When someone borrows so much of someone else's identifiable intellectual property, it is no longer stealing, it is homage.

 

I pointed out Vinnie's Stewart Copeland influence being audible primarily because it's odd to think of Vinnie ever being so obvious with his influences. His sound is so distinct and original. It's not hard to find Tony Williams in his playing, but he doesn't simply cop licks from old Lifetime albums. I like Stewart Copeland a lot, but I don't think of him in the same vein as Vinnie. Copeland's a cool stylist, but Vinnie's the drummer I dream of being. It's not unusual, but it seems so at first thought!

 

This message has been edited by Gaddabout on 08-23-2001 at 09:03 PM

[ackthbtbthotmail.com]

Great topic.

 

I just recently began buying Police records. Copeland's hi-hat work reminds me of Bernard Purdie, to be honest. Check Steely Dan's Royal Scam album. The title track is full of killer accentual <?> hi-hat work, as is Green Earrings, and all the other tunes he played on.

 

Regardless who stole/borrowed from who, Copeland is one-of-a-kind. So is Colaiuta. So is Purdie.

 

Eets all good,

Doc

[felix stein]

It's memorex for the most part. But it is played on a variety or different tape machines...some have a lot of wow and flutter...some sound amazing, but most are in between, the consumer grade.

 

The more original the artist/band gets, the more they distance themselves from the brainwashed listener.

 

I've been disgusted with most music I have heard for a long time, but I still enjoy it. Does that make any sense at all?

 

In my case, and I'm not special, my brain and its creative aspirations totally transcend my physical capabilites. But we only have 4 limbs. What we do with them makes us different as artists.

 

Soooooo,

 

I would say the differences in music (of the same genre) are subtle more or less to the average listener. I'm talking drum parts here, not tone.

To the musician I would say they are profoundly maddening at times. So we have to discuss/play/rehearse this minutia day in and day out to try to rationalize "our" musical journey.

[sidereal]

Originally posted by felix stein:

In my case, and I'm not special, my brain and its creative aspirations totally transcend my physical capabilites.

 

Yeah, I've always said, and I guess I'm no different than anyone, I'm a much better drummer mentally than I am physically. I get insane shit going on in my mind and I'm constantly being held back by the fact that I'm merely a homo sapian.

 

But back to the topic, is it any wonder that today's popular music is pretty much a cookie cutter mixing and matching of styles? Beck is the perfect example. For my day job, I'm talking to musicians in the biz all the time for articles I write and I can't tell you how many times I've heard "it's kinda 'Beck'." It's the way music is done today, from a songwriting aspect, an engineering aspect (Pro Tools), and even a performance aspect. Popular music is about lifting, sampling, borrowing and stealing, then making it your own.

 

I'm on a bit of a ramble thanks to my double espresso, but I think drumming's the same way. No one is original. We all borrow. I'd never seen Stewart Copeland live before last winter's NAMM show, and when I finally saw him, it was a bit embarrasing, and depressing to me to realize that not only have I been lifting his style, but I've been downright STEALING it. (even Stewart stole from the Arabic music he grew up listening to.) But I'm no Copeland ripoff.... I borrow my groove from Jeff Pocaro, my sense of space from Clyde Stubblefield, my sense of drive and heaviness from John Bonham, and my energy and intricateness (when called for) from Terry Bozzio. And it doesn't stop there... every drummer I've ever heard, every song I've ever heard, has influenced my playing.

 

But as my musical tastes have changed, I've also come under the influence of loops-style recordings and incorporated that into the way I play (ala Bill Laswell). I love the feel of coping a slamin' loop.

 

We are all a product of nature, we can't escape the ecosystem of influence we live in. We absorb, it becomes a part of who we are, and we try to express it in ways that make us subtley different from the drummer at the next club down the street.

 

Feeling particulary philosophical this morning..... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Steve LeBlanc]

Yeah, it's particularly mind blowing when you think you have something totally original in your music but you have a friend bring over an old relatively unknown 70s album that is almost exactly like your song.

 

This has happened to me a few times...ever heard of "Baird Hersey?" Neither had I until last year (very obscure album recorded in Memphis circa 1973)...I almost cried when I heard it because it was almost an exact copy of what I was doing at the time. Weird eh?

[djarrett]

Hey, ackthbtbt@hotmail.com (DOC):

 

I know what you mean about Bernard. I actually got to hang with Bernard a bit when I signed him to a Slingerland endorsement.

I have some video from the last NAMM show of him just sitting an playing with his eyes closed! He just grooves. It is a pretty lazy groove, but grooving nonetheless.

 

By the way, Have you ever heard that Bernard claims to have been the drummer on all the original Beattles records!?!

 

DJ

[ackthbtbthotmail.com]

hehe Yeah, he claims to have played on about everything. I'm thinking of giving him credit for all the drumming on my in-the-works record. I doubt he'd care, and it might help get me publicity. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

He claims to have played on Steely Dan's 'Peg', although it's quite clearly labeled, and sounds like, Rick Marotta. I started a thread in

alt.music.Steely-Dan under the header "Purty Purdie Purports Playing Peg Parts", and one of the Regs chimed in about meeting ol' Bernie up in Portland, Oregon after a recent cd release gig. He said Purdie was a nice enough chap, but even with the casual fan he launches into tirades about recordings he (claims to have) made. Kinda sad.

 

He's the Pete Rose of drumming.

 

Doc