Gaddabout Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 This is a tired subject that runs through every musician's discussion group, but a discussion in a previous thread made me wonder where this group stands. Instead of getting into a discussion of which is most important -- I think we could all agree that both taste and technique are required to be a good drummer -- I wanted to see examples of what you think is good taste, good technique, bad taste and bad technique. Here are some that come to mind: - Good taste: Bernard Purdie with Steely Dan. I've heard a few drummers complain how sloppy he is, which stuns me. If the groove is happenin', and all the notes are there, how can it be sloppy? His time is impeccable. The feel is to die for. I don't care what he can't do on a practice pad, behind the drum set he is one of the greats. - Good technique: Without going into any number of drummers who could be put here, I am particularly impressed with Terry Bozio's solo stuff. While I can't say I aspire to play like him, I would love to break down each limb the way he does, and apply that to modern composition. Check out his concert video if you're not sure what I'm talking about. He's also downright anal about how he tunes his drums, but that's another subject entirely. - Bad taste: Lots of examples here. Straight sixteenths on the hi-hat in a rock song that calls for eight-notes drives me up the wall. However, I think some of our favorite tech guys are the worst abusers. I can't remember when or where I heard it, but Steve Gadd was playing this swingin' standard with a big band. At the bridge he launched into his samba drum solo, completely out of context of the song. Also, as much as I love Vinnie, the famous bootleg of him with Chick Corea in Japan is so over-the-top, I want to call the over-playing police on him. I think Vinnie with John Patitucci on "Scophiles" pushes the limit, too. Bad technique: I could single out a few "name" drummers that regularly turn me off with their sloppy play, but Lars Ulrich takes the cake in my book. How did this cat get the gig? Saw him in concert not too long ago, and he still hasn't fixed his time problems. I've heard stories about how they have to regularly fix his recorded performances with computer aids. Consider me baffled on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 And it's not what you know but who you blow in this biz. It's tough to balance musicality and technique. I hate Carter Bueford. I think he is a spaz on the drums. I love Phil Rudd. I think he's great. I think what Lars did on Master of Puppets was brilliant in effort. He's a better business man than drummer that's for sure. Like I have said a bunch, a recorded performance, to me, is like a picture/painting. I have different views on it at different times in my life. I have had people come up to me and say I was one of the best drummers they have ever seen and I have had people say I totally sucked to my face and that my drums sounded like shit- uh, not on the same night I might add LOL. So this to me is slightly redundant because every drummer is going to treat space differently in music. And that is great. Someone is going to like it and somebody ain't. The trick is to get more people to like it than do not. I try to make my fills accessable to the listener with the groove in mind. I can afford to have an avantgaurde style playing in a 3 piece instrumental band. It really is a luxury, but I keep the songs' structures in mind- our songs are very structured for the most part. I have sacrificed being a lucrative professional to being an artist pushing the edge. So I have more failed instances of success in my playing I suppose. But the payoff is WONDERFUL. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 Why do you think Lars started Napster? LOL http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif He knows he may be out of a gig at any moment! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Just kidding ...... Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrthirsty Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 In the end I guess it's what the listener gets from each drummers performance, some acknowledge their skill but add the drummer does'nt get them as excited as someone else. I have to admit that some opinions of drummers boggle my mind such as Buddy Rich could'nt swing and Bernard Purdie sloppy????????..............WOW http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/confused.gif Have to agree with you on that one Gaddabout!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Hey, I have always taken a Biblical approach to playing (not to introduce religion into the picture) I have always said "judge and be judged not", or "let the drummer without sin cast the first stone!" What I guess I am saying is ... that I try to see the good in all drummers. If a person is not as good as I think he or she should be.. I still like to benefit them for the effort. Let's face it, we are all in a betterment pursuit. Why should we judge another drummer, when two nights later ... we might have a bad night and suck!! Just drum and see the good in others drumming! DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Holmes Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 My question is why must a guy play only one way? Ive seen guys pull off clean rudiment-based phrases then lay down a sloppy groove. Each thing has its own effectiveness. The key IMO is recognizing when its time to play clean and time to play sloppy. Each effects the music in its own way so I try to be able to do both. This message has been edited by Steve Holmes on 08-11-2001 at 05:43 PM Webmaster, www.houseofdrumming.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaddabout Posted August 12, 2001 Author Share Posted August 12, 2001 Hey Steve, your comments immediately made me think of Zig Modeliste. He would play these funky beats that would almost feel like the time was dragging (but they'd feel gooood), then he'd whip out some 32nd-note linear riff -- maybe the first guy to ever do stuff like that. For those of you who've never heard Zig play, check out the Look-A Py Py album from The Meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 12, 2001 Share Posted August 12, 2001 What I guess I am saying is ... that I try to see the good in all drummers. If a person is not as good as I think he or she should be.. I still like to benefit them for the effort. Let's face it, we are all in a betterment pursuit. Why should we judge another drummer, when two nights later ... we might have a bad night and suck!! Exactly! My brother plays somewhat sloppy and VERY busy on our stuff...it's the style we've developed for that music but you should hear him on a Country gig...so tasteful, in the pocket, simple. Every drummer should flirt with all sides me thinks. P.S. I'd also like to add that sometimes it's not the drummer's fault...a drum track can sound horribly inappropriate at first but redo the Bass track to compliment it better and suddenly everything is perfect. I encountered that this weekend...a tune we recorded a while back never sounded right to me...nothing did but the drums especially...I recorded a new bass track and now everything sounds like it was arranged that way to start. This message has been edited by Steve LeBlanc on 08-12-2001 at 02:16 PM http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 Other instruments can ruin a drum track as well. I've personally done tracks that sound in the pocket and locked with a click and/or bass player ... only to find that the other instruments (who don't know what a pocket is) makes it sound like I'm not locking in. It can be very frustrating at times, but there's nothing you can do. It's up to the producer and the engineer to accept (or not accept) the additional tracks. Many times I've found that they too don't hear what I hear ... which drives me bananas. Even vocals can ruin the rhythm tracks. Now days, if I like a project I got to work on, I try to get a copy of the mix WITHOUT vocals! LOL Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 I guess I try to put myself as much as possible on the 'taste' side of things, in that I feel my mission to play drums is to propel a band. I'm not much interested in technique as a player or a listener. I can be impressed by good technique, but when I go to a show and the drum solo starts, that's usually when I take a bathroom break. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaddabout Posted August 13, 2001 Author Share Posted August 13, 2001 Originally posted by Bartman: Other instruments can ruin a drum track as well. I've personally done tracks that sound in the pocket and locked with a click and/or bass player ... only to find that the other instruments (who don't know what a pocket is) makes it sound like I'm not locking in. Oh man, do I know how you feel! I've been playing with this guitarist for 12 years. Everything's great. We read each other's mind. He's the leader of the band. He decides he's going to take every other week off, and gets a new keyboardist to run the show. The keyboardist is highly interpretive if you know what I mean. I can't tell when this guy is playing a triplet over the bar or when he's just flat out missing one. Argh! Who get's the blame? The drummer, of course, despite the fact I've tried playing with this guy two different ways: plowing through his lead and going along with his silly stylings. After last night, I'm going to get a drummer to replace me on nights the keyboardist plays. Did I say, "Argh!"? This message has been edited by Gaddabout on 08-13-2001 at 02:49 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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