serpico3 Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Ok DJ , I know I must seem as a constant complainer , but Honestly, These events just happened to me, I'll start with the latest Modern Drummer, After they're sending me over a year a Subscribers entry , I gave in , reluctantly I might add because the last time I had a subscription with MD I only received 7 issues of a years subscription , and yes I wrote to them over and over but nothing this goes back a couple of years , Well now my health isn't so good lets say so I'm limited in travel so I no longer can just jump in my car and Drive to my Drum shop just for a Magazine , but I did then so I could get those other 5 issues to read, So I tried it again I sent my check in july 5,2001 and it cleared no problem there , So I went to there web site very diffulcult to find there customer service section , but I did I've written 4 noe3 5 Emails just asking the following question ,When does my Subscription start , I even wrote to Diana Little there Magazine Publist but to no Avail NOTHING NO REPLY NOTHING , So I'm flustrated and annoyed by there ignoring or their indifference , What can I do . start a National Boycot against their Magazine Boy I' sure like to , any suggestions , Hey I'm all ears now. Next and this is a real dosy . I recently purchased from the Vault 10 months ago Ear Matched Series of all K Zildjians Dark Customs from their 13" Hi Hats to their 14,15,16,17,18, crashes "20 ride 8' Splash with 18' china Low trash their 14/16 remote oriental trash hihats to go with 6 Zi Bel a 10 Sabian China Splash and a 10 ' Ufrip Splash heres the deal after playing on several gigs I notice a dark film on the cymbals So with a soft cloth dampen with luke warm water only I proceeded to wiped down my cymbals to remove that smoke film but to my astonishment my 16 crash the 6 zi bel the 18 china low and the 14/16 remote hihat emblems ans zildjian name wiped clean off no rubbing or anything they others were fine so I went to Zildjians web site , would you believe there is not anywhere a spot for technical support or customer service on their site , I went to mt drum dealer thet had no answeres , So I called Zildjian and they put me in touch with a service rep named Adam. Now you are not going to believe this but I swear on my Grandsons this is true! I intriduced myself and proceeded to tell him my problem , heres his quote to me " Your an idiot noone uses water nomatter how small on their cymbals , we use a water based ink to stamp on our cymbals so any moisture will remove that ink . I told him in all my years of Playing I never ever heard that , he proceeded to tell me that water clogs the pores of a cymbal causing it to DEVAMP, I asked him again to repeat himself he said it clear DEVAMP whatever the hell that is , he told me it changes the whole charactoristics of a cymbal, I even had the neve to ask him do they restamp cymbals and he said they never do that nor offer that service , I told him that I knew of harsah chemicals as Brasso or comet never to use on cymbals thats common sence but water in fact some cleaners they offer tell you to do just that, I then told him he was extremely rude to talk to me like that and he should show more courtousy to a customer of Zildjian cymbals over 40 years but even if I was a first time customer he was out of line he told me So what if I stop buying Zildjians we still have 40 million more as you out there and hung up on me, I wrote to the company told several drum dealers what should i do about it and I finally dropped it because it got me nowhere so maybe any of you know why that happened hey I right here . Please let me know ...Peace serpico3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 It's sad to hear all the mess you've been through. As far as needing to know what else to do about all of this, I don't know what to say. I do think that you are doing something right by actively letting others know about your experiences with companies. If you are up to it, I would continue to write and call every week until you get a the kind of response you desire. By keeping your name and face constantly in front of them, they'll get tired of you and finally do whatever it takes to make you happy. Perhaps write to Modern Drummer about the Zildjian incident! You're probably not going to get Adam fired, but someone might yank his chain a little bit. DJ can probably give you some great advice since he's been in the business for a long time. Good Luck! ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Serpico writes: "I'll start with the latest Modern Drummer, After they're sending me over a year a Subscribers entry , I gave in , reluctantly I might add because the last time I had a subscription with MD I only received 7 issues of a years subscription , and yes I wrote to them over and over but nothing this goes back a couple of years , Well now my health isn't so good lets say so I'm limited in travel so I no longer can just jump in my car and Drive to my Drum shop just for a Magazine , but I did then so I could get those other 5 issues to read, So I tried it again I sent my check in july 5,2001 and it cleared no problem there , So I went to there web site very diffulcult to find there customer service section , but I did I've written 4 noe3 5 Emails just asking the following question ,When does my Subscription start , I even wrote to Diana Little there Magazine Publist but to no Avail NOTHING NO REPLY NOTHING , So I'm flustrated and annoyed by there ignoring or their indifference , What can I do . start a National Boycot against their Magazine Boy I' sure like to , any suggestions" Hey, Serpio: I forwarded you e-mail of today to Kevin Kearns at Modern Drummer. I know that there must be an admin error that has caused this problem. They are very good about these things and I am sure you will be satisfied soon! Now, let me give some thought to the Zildjian delimma! Thanks, DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Serpico wrote: "Now you are not going to believe this but I swear on my Grandsons this is true! I introduced myself and proceeded to tell him my problem , heres his quote to me " Your an idiot no one uses water no matter how small on their cymbals , we use a water based ink to stamp on our cymbals so any moisture will remove that ink . I told him in all my years of Playing I never ever heard that , he proceeded to tell me that water clogs the pores of a cymbal causing it to DEVAMP, I asked him again to repeat himself he said it clear DEVAMP whatever the hell that is , he told me it changes the whole characteristics of a cymbal, I even had the nerve to ask him do they restamp cymbals and he said they never do that nor offer that service , I told him that I knew of harsh chemicals as Brasso or comet never to use on cymbals that's common sense but water in fact some cleaners they offer tell you to do just that, I then told him he was extremely rude to talk to me like that and he should show more courtesy to a customer of Zildjian cymbals over 40 years but even if I was a first time customer he was out of line he told me So what if I stop buying Zildjians we still have 40 million more as you out there and hung up on me, I wrote to the company told several drum dealers what should i do about it and I finally dropped it because it got me nowhere so maybe any of you know why that happened" Wow! I have to ask Serpico ... did you in any way act like an ass to this guy? I ask this question in earnest! I have worked for several major percussion manufacturers and in many cases supervised the Customer Service department as one of my many duties. This type of response is highly unusual and if true ... totally uncalled for and would have been grounds for dismissal ... even if you *had* been an ass! Regarding your dilemma with the cymbals. I have NEVER heard this before! Heck I know folks that buy these cymbals and bury them in dirt to "age" them, but never have I heard that water will damage them. I have always used carnuba wax on mine from day one, and I have never had a tarnish problem, but I wipe them down after EVERY performance. My Logos are all totally intact. Now, to solve your problem with your dissatisfaction with Zildjian, I have forwarded you comments to Robert La Clair with Zildjian. He is the Eastern Regional Sales Manager and I know him. He is a great guy and I am sure he will be able to shed some light on this problem. Thanks, DJ PS: may take him a week to answer as we are heading into NAMM week. This is a hectic week for music instrument manufacturers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpico3 Posted July 18, 2001 Author Share Posted July 18, 2001 Hey Thanks DJ , Bartman, all you great guys responding to my letter , to DJ , I Swear DJ when I called Zildjian I was polite curtious, and I intoduced myself to this service rep , He seemed already alittle annoyed in his voice but hey we all have bad days , and I certainly don't want to see this man lose his job over this, My God I would feel terrible about that if that were to happen , Please I only reported it to tell others about how it happened , and to pull this guy up but not out, and to put it straight on his advice about water and such , is any of it true? I heard of using that wax , it's just I'm alittle reluctant to try it in fear of me screwing up my cymbals , Man they aren't cheap, but if any of you fellow drummers can shed some light on these new products thats out there now , so many to chose from, Which ones work the best, and the best way to apply them Please share the info with me ok? . I'm an old timer , you know when we were using drums to send messages from tree to tree!!! HEHE But seriously , I'm, learning all the time from you younger drummers , and I must admit you guys are slammin, great chops, and power and energy to boot, great feel and timing , some of the music I can't dig but I respect the drummers who play it , and yea theres even something in that to learn, Thanks Bartman about the advice of the mirror, you know I did that when I was a kid playing in a fife and drum corp we did it so our level of sticks were in unison with each other , and I'm trying it out again , Thanks, In my other Email I asked about any advice or info more on this Moeller technique , I learned it started from a legendary pit Drummer for Radio City Music hall named Standislaw Moeller who after awhile either by accident or persistance probably more of both develop this wonderfull technique , it was later expanded and defined furthur by the Great Freddie Grubber, Man this Guy is a legend also , So many great drummers have studied with him, to furthur their horizons and technique , and the list is notible , to many to list here but really check it out . And check out this Moeller technique it is burnin, my friend, fellow Drummer Jim of Creative Music demostrated it for me I was absolutely astounded, and he told me he worked on this for a few years untill he got were he is today , yet he still works,practices it over and over still today, what you save in effort in strokes and energy, play, feel. is unbeliveable ,. I guess you can see how impressed I am with this I been working on it for 3 days now and believe it or not I can already feel the difference a see and sound to. Boy were have I been living in a cave? This is great . So if any of you guys out there know any more about this or have some tips Please send them my way and share them with the rest of our Drumming family......Sincerely serpico3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernDrummer Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Serpico, Can't use water AT ALL on cymbals??? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/confused.gif Guess they're not gonna give me any warranty work on these Zildjians that I've now had for 40 years then, eh? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Guess I better go back on figure out how to 'un-clean' them. 'Cause they've had water on them many, many, many, many, many (well, you get the picture, LOL) times and, IMHO, still sound great to this day. Maybe that cat at Zildjian was just yankin' yer chain? Or doesn't know what the heck he's talkin' about? Dunno. But my Zildjians are fine. No cracks, dents, pings, rust, tarnish, blah, blah, blah. To be honest, looking at my old bottom hi-hat right now, there's even very little sign of wear. I don't know what that means, but I can tell you in all honesty that this particular cymbal was purchased for me by my father right around 1962, and has conservatively been subjected to (in gigs and rehearsals) at least 10,000 hrs. of playing. Hey, and since no one from Zildjian in 1962 ever even mentioned that they couldn't be cleaned using any water at all, and we never received a bulletin or anything from Zildjian, think they'd give me my (father's) money back? Or maybe, some new cymbals? LMAO! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif J.B. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always have what you've always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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