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triggers and such...


regurgitator

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What is the best approach to adding triggers? I was thinking of perhaps a Roland SPD-20. Do you just run that to a monitor or into the PA? I am looking to add assorted sounds and triggers would be prefect. Is the SPD-20 a stand alone unit or do you need a "brain" that has other sounds?
To me, it's a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?" You can say, "Sorry, got these sacks." -Jack Handy
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The Roland SPD-20 has drum and percussion sounds as well as 8 velocity sensitive pads and the capacity to handle 4 dual triggers.

 

If the sounds are decent (and you like them), this seems to be a fairly nice unit. Sale prices are around $650.00 ($895.00 retail). Since it has MIDI Output, you would be able to trigger other sound modules if needed.

 

I personally use the drumKAT (4.5 Turbo) and absolutely love it. It has no internal sounds, but is the most powerful pad/trigger device I've seen. Lot's of flexibility and may be upgraded as new software version come out. It also has an onboard sequencer which is nice from time to time. Besides using it on my regular gigs, I also use the drumKAT for live concert recordings and studio work.

 

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum
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regurgitator:

Thanks for the question.

I am in the process of integrating a ddrum 4 into my set-up. I am triggering the unit from my acoustic drums with ddrum triggers.

 

I will let you know the progress as soon as I have made some.

 

Watch for an upcoming series on integrating electronics into your drumming.

 

Thanks,

DJ

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I've used the SPD20 both in live and recording situations, triggered with my acoustic kit. I bought some DDrum triggers with the supplied cables. I would suggest getting these or similar quality ones. Cheap triggers will only lead to frustration.

 

For both live and studio, I used the Roland primarily as a brain and rarely touched the pads. I fed kick and snare trigger outputs to it and then dual mono outputs panned hard R and L from the Roland to the board for mixing purposes (i.e. discrete kick and snare channels). This worked fairly well. Watch the velocity and trigger settings on the SPD20 and make them work to your playing style. It takes a bit of experimentation.

 

I did a session with this setup and it worked surprisingly well. We fed the kick and snare as described above and then had live toms, hat and overheads. It was interesting, maybe because it's 16 bit going into a 24 bit Pro Tools session, or maybe it was the patches themselves, but the kick and snare in the mix had just a slight grainy quality which gave everything sort of a hip-hop feel. The acoustic miking kept everything honest and sounding great. Worked out to be a nice combination.

 

For live purposes, I eventually stopped using the setup. Here it was because I was suddenly experiencing triggering problems, i.e. the kick became itermittant and not always register sound with each hit. I did some troubleshooting, but couldn't figure out the problem. Could have been the settings in the SPD20, could have been that the trigger went bad. I didn't have the time to figure it out, so I went back to my trusty D-112 and SM57 through a good compressor!

 

Hope this helps.

Just for the record.
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I thought drum Kat was out of the picture...were they re-aquired?

 

hmmmmmmm, am I seeing an electronic revolution on the boards here?

 

Dendy,

why on earth are you triggering your dw's, LOL...I don't get it? I could see if you had a CB700 kit or something.

 

I think that Roland is pricey, but it seems nice.

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Hey, Felix:

It really has nothing to do with the great sound of the DW's.

 

I am starting a series on integrating electronics into the drumset.

 

Many players today play to sequenced parts and for artist that insist that the drums live sound exactly like the recorded drums (ala ... that special snare sound, etc.) Also, there are times when I prefer some subsonic type of floor tom or something special along that lines. (special effects, etc.)

Having the triggers allows me to accomplish this without hauling extra gear.

 

I will keep you posted as to progress.

 

Thanks,

DJ

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Originally posted by felix stein:

I thought drum Kat was out of the picture...were they re-aquired?

 

 

KAT went bankrupt years ago and reformed under the name of Alternate Mode .

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

 

This message has been edited by Bartman on 07-06-2001 at 03:52 PM

Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum
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Hey, Felix:

You lost me? ... I am not sure I follow the Sonic SPAM terminlogy?

 

While I know what SPAM is regarding forums, I do not see and never intend to SPAM anyone here. As the moderator and drum channel manager, I strive to put together series that benefit drummers at all levels. Sometimes these articles can be tied to a manufacturer, and sometimes not.

As someone trying to learn, I never really let an affiliation stand in the way of my pulling good and useful info from an article.

Please let me know if you see something that rubs your fur the wrong way!

DJ

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Oh ... I get it!

 

I have been ultra sensitive to the "spam" thing due to other forums!

 

Course ... growing up in the country, ... I rarely got the fortune of having SPAM, I am sure that even canned ... it is not *all* bad!

 

I understand where canned drum sounds can be distasteful, but there has to be a place for them as well.

Imagine back when you played in a cover band ... the keyboard player was always trying to emulate the sound of the keys on each different groups individual hits. Drummers are usually satisfied with the "plain jane" acoustic sound of their drums. Why not emulate that open snare on the song that was originally recorded that way ... and the closed, choked snare sound of the one song recorded that way?

OR

Do you believe that the drum sound should be more generic?

 

Interesting!

 

DJ

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I don't know what I believe in anymore, but at the moment I will say this.

 

A great drum sound is a great drum sound and I think it is a little more important for the guitar player and keyboardist to nail the tonal color as applied to copy bands. I mean, don't we have enough to schlep?

 

But if one has the time for setting up triggers, a module, drum mics plus the damn drums themselves, then more power to them.

 

Currently I have been experimenting with electrics for just a couple of years. I'm finding them ok, but I really prefer accomplishing sonic individuality with great technique, taste and conventional equipment applied with tried and true (for me) tuning (an art in itself)and micing. It's just too easy anymore to get a great drum sound from a box. But I still think any module sounds fake when the fills start getting fast. And I can play pretty )(^*&*)*(&^ fast, believe me. They are getting close though.

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Hey regurgitator,

I hope you're not referring to triggering your acoustic set!YUCK!

Those Rockstar customs will sound awesome if tuned and miced properly!

I would throw away those factory heads though!

Now if you were talking about adding Vdrums in addition to your acoustic kit that's a different story.I'd like to hear a follow up from djarrett on his purchase.

good luck with those tamas

ian*

ian*
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hey yall, heres my take on using triggers....

In the studio, it seem that having a trigger on the kick drum can help you if you have the time it takes to set it up, and sequence the trigger signal in a sequencer. This allows you to change the kick sound, or blend another sound with your original sound. Say you want to double up the original kick with an 808 kick for a certain part of the song. One possible hang up would be that the 'attack' of the kick drums flams sometimes, so I usually take all the attack out of the sample kick that I am layering in.... or you can replace the kik entirely with another sound.

Using a trigger on the snare when recording can be helpful as long as the song doesn't have a lot of buzz rolls, or ghost notes that would cause complications in the triggering. If its a straight up pop song, where the engineer wants every snare to sound the same, this can be a good option. I never really blend 2 snares, just replace the original with a sample of choice...(the sample snare can be run thru the same room reverb as the toms or overheads to blend them all together for a more natural sound..)

Sometimes just altering the pitch of the sampled snare

 

more later

j

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like I was saying, altering the pitch of the sampled snare can bring it out from other interfering frequencies in the song....

 

as for using triggers live, I have tried it on the kick and snare without much luck... the triggered sound and the original sound if they are similar, will interfere with each other making flaming sounds and also mis-triggering. Instead, I just bring a few trigger-pads, and set them around the set. Maybe one will have a snare sound with huge reverb, another an 808 kick, also sound fx, samples, and of course if you play along to a click track live, you can add sampled guitar parts, background vocals, drum loops, sync-tempo delay fx etc...

 

I hope this helps

j

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Hey guys, No the Rockstar Custom's sound awesome on their own, although I need new heads. What do you recommend? I am going for a tribal dark sound. Anyway, I am not looking to trigger my acoustic drums, I want to add pads to them for additional sounds. The Customs sound too good on their own to trigger them. I am looking to add some metalic sounds, anything percussive really...add to the flavor.
To me, it's a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?" You can say, "Sorry, got these sacks." -Jack Handy
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