regurgitator Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 I am comparing the Sonor Force 3001 kit vs. Tama Starclassic Performers. Are Sonor decent? I love the Tama's but they are allot more money. I need a large kit for heavy,tribal style work. To me, it's a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?" You can say, "Sorry, got these sacks." -Jack Handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Let your ears, gut and wallet guide you my son. A good salesperson should help you out in the decision, not piss you off. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 I used to own a drum shop in which I sold the Force 3000 kits. The 3001 is the "new" version. I'm not sure what the new changes were, but the Force 3000 was a really nice kit with the German engineered hardware that we've all come to love from Sonor. Personally, I've never cared for Tama ... so I can't say anything positive about them; it's just my own personal tastes. Just an FYI ... you don't have to have a "large" kit or a particular brand to do "tribal stuff". You can do a lot with only a few drums just by your drumhead choice, tuning, etc. Good Luck! ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Bartman and I just never agree... I've owned TAMA and Sonor kits.I was never satisfied with my Sonors.Tama's hardware is user friendly and their tone is warmer and more musical than Sonor especially when live micing...Just an opinion. ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 I have a 3000 kit and it rocks...it needed RiMs and a lot of TLC though. I'm no lover of german hardware though. It's clunky. I like the light yamaha stuff for reasons of my own. I have a hard time with starclassics, and I wanted some for awhile, I looked at a bunch of them...to me they are boingy sounding. I have to admit I like Neil Peart's superstars on Moving Pictures and Mike Portnoy's sound on Awake. But those drums were probably finessed by a great tech. I would have to give them a listen again. I Nicko McBrain's sound on Powerslave and Piece of Mind is better though...at least to my taste. I know Simon Phillips liked Tamas for awhile but it could have been a great deal to be endorsed. I would have to hear him play again...it's been a long time. I like lots of character and the Japanese drums seem to have less of it- to my ears anyways. They are more sterile...and some people go for that. If I was going to get a kit from across the pond it would be a maple custom Yamaha. They have a little more "grrrrrrr" or "poop" to the fundamental. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regurgitator Posted July 4, 2001 Author Share Posted July 4, 2001 yeah I am thinking of going for a Yamaha Stage custom 6 piece and then add some bongos,rotos and other african style drums. I would save allot by going with the Yamaha's instead of the Tama's but I am not sure they will sound as good. The new stage custom's sound really good for the price, but I am not sure yet...any advice. To me, it's a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?" You can say, "Sorry, got these sacks." -Jack Handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 I bought one of the new YAMAHA Stage Custom Advantage kits as a gift to a church that a play at (it's all I could afford); replacing an old PEARL Export kit. I had a guy sub for me (former LeAnn Rimes drummer) about a month ago. He called me up and told me how great the kit sounded. He swore that the engineer was processing the drums and feeding it back through the monitor; he flipped when he discovered that he was hearing raw acoustic sound being reflected back at him from the drum shield! These drums tune up relatively easy and sound great considering what they are ... not a pro kit. For the money, these are the best. ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Stage Customs are pretty hot...I like the 'trans' finishes and the hardware has such a great feel. I set up and played lots of those things when I was slugging it out in the retail trenches. My friend has that fusion 5 piece with the maple snare...sounds great dude. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regurgitator Posted July 5, 2001 Author Share Posted July 5, 2001 I ended up getting a Tama Rockstar Custom Fusion 5 piece. It sounds fantastic and I got it out the door with hardware for 850! Not bad eh? Now I will get a couple more toms and new cymbals. Midwest percussion seems to be the cheapest for Zildjian. To me, it's a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?" You can say, "Sorry, got these sacks." -Jack Handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 What are the shells made out of...is there any composite in them? I bet there is. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Hey regurgitator, You did well my friend.What color did you go with?Those things have beautiful lacquer finish! Felix the shells are 5 plies mahogany with an inner ply of basswood for projection and an outer ply of basswood that is lacquered.They also come with the RIMS style Starcast mounting system. For the money they are hard to beat! GO TAMA! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 I'm not a drum builder but here in ol' ohio basswood is the shittiest stuff that grows in swamps/lowlands and doesn't burn. It is a very soft and doesn't burn. So the soft wood projects? Sounds like a marketing gimmick to me. I don't have a problem with mahogany. Just my 2cents correct me if I'm wrong. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regurgitator Posted July 6, 2001 Author Share Posted July 6, 2001 Well, they sound awesome, just as good as the Starclassics I played and for ALLOT less money. For the money they cant be beat. Tama has an amazing bass drum sound. I was leary of selling my old Rockstar kit because the bass drum sounded better than our other drummers Yamaha Recording set. When I can afford to I may upgrade to Pork Pie drums but in the meantime I will build up this set. I need another floor tom and a rack tom. Currently I have a 10,12 and a floor 14. Perfect for tribal overlays. I got the see-thru black color- very pretty, I love it. I like the see-thru blue allot also but the set they had in that color was damaged. Is there anywhere to get Zildjian cymbals cheaper than Midwest Percussion? To me, it's a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?" You can say, "Sorry, got these sacks." -Jack Handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Hey, Felix: Basswood, is not the same in the States as it is off-shore. It is a little higher quality than Ohio "swamp-wood"! The truth of the matter is, until the 1980's (late 1980's), the drums of the highest order ... Slingerlands, Ludwigs, Rogers, etc., etc. were made of mahogany with some type of filler wood in between the plies. These were the drums that you (Felix) and I came to love! In the later 1980's Keller developed the better methods of solid maple ply construction that has become the "new" standard. Jasper uses a Maple/Gum/Maple construction. Gum is a soft wood as well, hence the "ballsy" sound of Gretsch. Off-shore manufacturers started out by mimicking the US standard construction. (Hell, if you look at an original Yamaha catalog and hold it up to a 1980 Slingerland catalog, the drums are almost identical, and the catalog is laid out almost the same! ... copycats!) It was not until the demand for lower priced kits came on strong that you found the use of these alternative woods for "filler" plies. The off-shore manufacturers chose Bass Wood because it closely mimics the sound qualities of the Gum used in Jasper shells. When I was with Mapex, we dubbed the name of these hybrid shells "sandwiches". A maple sandwich usually consisted of Maple inner ply, Mahogany or Bass middle ply and a Maple outer ply. There is absolutely nothing wrong about this construction. Admittedly, Tama used to use a composite shell ... much like chip-board. This proved to me a non-desired material. Later, they went to a 2nd grade of mahogany inner ply and then sprayed the shell interior with Zolotone (Trunk spatter paint. Gretcsh has done this same principal for years and claimed the silver paint enhanced the sound quality by reflecting the sound of the drums hence boosting projection. I guess there is something magical about this? Just thought this might help with your concerns and queries! LOL, DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 LOL, Are you telling me that asian basswood is better than ohio basswood? PROVE IT! Too funny felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regurgitator Posted July 7, 2001 Author Share Posted July 7, 2001 Regardless of where the wood came from, this set sounds better than kits I have heard that cost well over what this one did. To me, it's a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?" You can say, "Sorry, got these sacks." -Jack Handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Hey, Felix: Regurgitator has a good point ... one of the best kits I ever remember hearing in clinic was Terry Bozzio and Gerry Brown on Remo Acousticon sets ... basically a resin impregnated cardboard tube shell! These kits sounded great. If REMO could have kept the construction under wraps, the kits would still be TOP sellers. BassWood, is used in many off shore products from Dean Guitars to Fender Guitars. Many furniture items are constructed this way in Tiawan as well. What I am saying is that Asian Oak is different from American White Oak ... and Asian Basswood *IS* different from American Basswood. That is all I am saying. Regurg ... Enjoy the drumming! DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Hey guy's, Guess what I'm a horticulturalist!Let me try to explain the difference in subspecies of trees.Take the maple tree for instance.In North America there are many varieties which all grow in their own climatic and environmental conditions,each maple variety has varied wood type.Sugar maple,and red maple both have hard wood where as silver maple is very soft and brittle.With this in mind if you go all the way around the globe the maple has evolved totally differently.The Japanese maple is a dwarf and unsuitable for anything other that an ornamental.This same rule of hybridization applies to basswood. The larger diameter trees from overseas grow with little imperfection,producing a light colored, pliable wood that resembles maple in color,totally different than the American cousin.I dont think you could find an American basswood tree that could be milled into anything that didn't resemble swiss cheese!At any rate the Rockstar series are a top seller and have gotten great reviews from Modern Drummer,surely there is a reason for that! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Originally posted by ian*: At any rate the Rockstar series are a top seller and have gotten great reviews from Modern Drummer,surely there is a reason for that! Uhmmmm .... MONEY!!! Top seller? Where? Japan? If Modern Drummer truly ripped on Tama they would lose advertising dollars. Everyone is playing it very PC. I don't base my decisions (or my defense) on reviews by someone else ... or if "so and so" plays them. I want to see the reviews; please tell me which issue you are referring to. I use my own ears to decide what I like and don't like. I get advice and input from those sages who can offer me some wise direction, not someone who will tickle my ears because they palms got greased. If I were looking at who plays what brand of drums, I see very few playing Tama. In fact, the few people whom I respect as a drummer and musician, who use Tama drums ... I could count on one hand! Don't kid yourself. Not all pros use gear because they get paid or because it's free. Yamaha is a perfect example in that not one artist get's free gear or gets to keep the gear Yamaha LOANS them. When the tour is over ... BOOM ... bye bye drums ... they're on their way back to Japan. Let's see now ... if I did base my decisions who plays what ... how many professional drummers play Yamaha? Oops too many to count and not enough hands! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif The opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone. ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com This message has been edited by Bartman on 07-07-2001 at 02:11 AM Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regurgitator Posted July 7, 2001 Author Share Posted July 7, 2001 What do you want articles for when you say you dont base your opinion on them? Maybe if you used your obviously snooby ears to actually listen to a Tama set you would see that they do sound good, and that it is not hype. Plenty of VERY talented drummers play Tama- of course if you dont like rock or metal then you would not acknowledge their talent. Tell me that Tim Alexander isn't talented. How about Kenny Aronof,Dave Lombardo,Abe Cunningham,Raymond Herrerra, Not talented? Whatever.... To me, it's a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?" You can say, "Sorry, got these sacks." -Jack Handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Lars Ulrich,David Sylveria(Korn),Judas Priest's drummer,Pantera's drummer,Helmet's drummer,Kenny Aronoff,practically all of my favorite drummers play Tama. Of course they're all "ROCKERS" not "CUNTRY".But you wouldn't know that.You're just mad cuz the man picked Tama!Well nanny nanny boo boo! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Lars Ulrich,David Sylveria(Korn),Judas Priest's drummer,Pantera's drummer,Helmet's drummer,Kenny Aronoff,practically all of my favorite drummers play Tama. Of course they're all "ROCKERS" not "CUNTRY".But you wouldn't know that.You're just mad cuz the man picked Tama!Well nanny nanny boo boo! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Lars Ulrich,David Sylveria(Korn),Judas Priest's drummer,Pantera's drummer,Helmet's drummer,Kenny Aronoff,practically all of my favorite drummers play Tama. Of course they're all "ROCKERS" not "CUNTRY".But you wouldn't know that.You're just mad cuz the man picked Tama!Well nanny nanny boo boo! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 O.K. Guys .... BREAK IT UP .... BREAK IT UP!! Go to your rooms! TimeOut! Ian* ... Bart is no snob. Bart ... ian* (like you ) is entitled to his own opinions! Now ... BE NICE! Let the drumming begin! DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Originally posted by ian*: Lars Ulrich,David Sylveria(Korn),Judas Priest's drummer,Pantera's drummer,Helmet's drummer,Kenny Aronoff,practically all of my favorite drummers play Tama. Of course they're all "ROCKERS" not "CUNTRY".But you wouldn't know that.You're just mad cuz the man picked Tama!Well nanny nanny boo boo! Now you are just being silly. I like "rockers" just fine, but I must say that I don't respect the opinion or musicianship of any the drummers you mentioned, with the acception of Kenny Aronoff. No matter how "good" you think the others are, I don't concur. Are you implying that I'm a "country" drummer? LOL Give me a break. I also hope that you aren't implying something by the way you chose to spell country. ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regurgitator Posted July 7, 2001 Author Share Posted July 7, 2001 John Stanier(Helmet) is hella talented! Man, you have issues if you think he isn't. I'd like to see you come up with some of his grooves.... To me, it's a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?" You can say, "Sorry, got these sacks." -Jack Handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Did I say they weren't talented? Hmmmmmmmm ... don't see that in my earlier post. I said that I don't respect their opinions or their musicianship. I did NOT say they weren't good players, I did NOT say that they weren't talented, I didn't say anything you say that I am saying. Perhaps this would be a good time to look up the word "respect" in the dictionary. You all seem to be getting VERY defensive here. I'm not attacking anyone; not you ... not the drummers you mentioned. Perhaps it's not me with issues. I merely stated my opinion, which is the truth for me. To say that I love listening to these guys play, respect their opinions on drumming or life in general would be a lie. If you get something positive from them ... great! I'm not you and you aren't me. You don't have my education or playing experience ... and I don't have yours. So we are NOT the same and should not be expected to like or agree on the same things. So lighten up guys. All of this started with a dicussion about Sonor vs. Tama. I made my opinions known just like everyone else. Having played professionally for over 20 years, owning my own drum shop for three years, a music degree and post graduate work, and hundreds of hours of studio/session work all plays a part in my opinions and the way I think. If you don't like the way I think ... that's fine; you are entitled to think as you like. As far as articles, yes, I read articles to get the reviewers opinion. If the person writing the article has credibility and I respect what he/she has to say ... then the article carries some weight with me. But I NEVER just base my opinions or decisions in life on what one (or more) people say or think. My earlier comments regarding "reviews" was directed to the implication that I was stupid to disagree ... just because something got good reviews. I see movies all the time that get bad reviews, but I love them ... good reviews and I think they stink. Are you telling me that you always agree with what a review or some poll ranking says? We are here to discuss topics of music ... primarily centered on drums and percussion. People ask questions ... people give answers and opinions .. some without any factual evidence or creditials to back up their claims. So, hopefully this will explain to you a little more of where I am coming from and who I am. If my opinion doesn't matter to you, then you are always free to skip over my posts; my name is clearly labeled on each one. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Peace. ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 I can see why regurgitator is defensive,the man just bought a new drum kit in his price range.And aparently he researched and tested different manufacturers to get what he felt was the best kit for his money.Frankly I applaud his choice but if someone else doesn't maybe to bash his choice would be a bit discouraging to him.As an experienced drummer dont you think it is your job to encourage the guy? I love all you drummer cats! peace ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted July 8, 2001 Share Posted July 8, 2001 Just came back from the drum shop boys and I was talking to the kid there. He loved the tama drums...he was all "ate up" with the birch and maple starclassics and he said you couldn't beat them- FOR THE MONEY. I have to say I was itching to play the birch ones, but they where on a shelf about two stories high...I'm not that bad of a tire kicker. But he also said the best sounding kit he'd had in there all year was an anniversary series maple custom kit...yummy. If you guys have ever played a high line Sonor kit...oh, they are to die for. I love the Bubinga Signatures (they are designers now) and some of the rosewood drums I have heard were extremely loud. I will get a set or birch or heavy maples some day with a big 24" kick and a bronze snare. Those drums just plain slam. But they aren't as focused as a yamaha or have that Tama transparent quality to the tone either (only way I can describe them in a sentence). But we have to remember that this shit is all objective...heads and tuning and the drummer are going to make the sound all different. Tamas, Yamahas and Sonors all have different sound characteristics and that is GREAT! Ian, nice basswood description...I found it informative. Bartman-love to see you get going! And to the guy that bought the Tamas-have fun and enjoy your new kit. No matter how great they sound, in a few years, some other kit will catch your ears/eyes. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted July 8, 2001 Share Posted July 8, 2001 I don't think I "bashed" anyone's choice to buy a Tama drumkit. I simply countered by pointing out somethings regarding articles/reviews plus the people who play the drums. You all were using that as a line of reasoning for buying the drums ... and argued the other point. If you read my earlier posts, you'll see that I talked about my knowledge of Sonor and Yamaha. The post that ruffled everones feathers was in direct response to one of Ian's posts. Sorry if I offended or hurt someone; I'm sorry. I will try to spell out my thoughts a little more clearly. You all could do well to read the posts more carefully and see what the reply is about and whom it is directed to. Felix what does "love to see you get going" mean? Is that a nice way to say take a hike? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.