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Suggestions for live miking snare and bass drums???


Sir Bob

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I'm a guitarist in a band that plays occassionally doing covers. Our drummer is pretty good except I wish he was louder on the snare.

 

We mic the bass and snare. The bass mic is what ever we have leftover, which is either a 57 or 58. By sticking inside the bass drum we get enough volume. Any recommendations for a better mic? An AKG?

 

At our last gig I still wanted more snare even though we put a 57 about eight inches above the snare. I will try putting it closer but I was thinking about a midi trigger of a sample. Does anyone have any experience here?

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Hi Bob, a 57 about an inch from the snare will probably get you the volume you need.

As for kik mics. The AKG D112 or the Shure Beta52 are pretty good for the money. Here is a link for some drum mics :

 

www.musiciansfriend.com/ex/search/live/010624154310216163113056222243?FIND=FCCX&q=c

 

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KHAN (Always hopeful, yet discontent)

 

www.floydtribute.hpwebhost.com

 

 

This message has been edited by KHAN on 06-24-2001 at 06:58 PM

So Many Drummers. So Little Time...
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khan is right on the money!I use a 57 on the snare too.Go for close proximity.this will give you more headroom and help isolate the 57.I use a SHURE Beta 52 inside the kick,same rule applies go for proximity effect.Those mics handle SPL's very well so mic close.Use boom stands and make sure the stand doesn't come into contact with cymbal stands etc...Even with good mics you'll still need to do some shaping with a good parametric EQ.Never underestimate the value of a good 18" sub for good kick sound!

ian*

ian*
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My personal favorite kick mic is without a doubt is the Sennheiser E602 you can get them in a pack w/stand and cable for $199 on sale at certain large retailers. In the past I've been able to run an almost straight EQ on the kick channel and get a great kick sound. I am also a fan of the Beta 52 its a great quality mic.
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All quality kick drum mics have a shaped frequency response.My Beta 52 sounds good EQ'd flat but you still want to do some notch filtering for fine tuning on any kick mic.The main things to look for in a kick mic is a frequency response ranging from 10Hz to at least 10kHz,high SPL handling capability.Also make sure it's a true large dyaphram mic!

:ian*

ian*
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Notch Filtering? On a kick? I'd say ok to run it in the monitors and or fronts and have the sound guy deal. We need to ask Sir Bob if he's got subs and enough juice to push some air. I betcha he doesn't. And he's hearing a meaty kick in his head when live it's a mouse fart. I'd just use channel eq...one less box to schlep.

 

EQ is a baaaaaaaaaad thing in my book. We don't like EQ in felix land...use eq when something sounds crappy...the art is to solve sonic problem/vision without eq...at least in felix land. But, time is of essence for all you pros out there...no time, none at all, time is money.

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I disagree on the EQ is bad concept!If I could afford to, I'd have a rack of EQs.One for every sound source.Notching out problem frequencies allows you to shape your sound and maximize gain before feedback

.By sweeping each frequency to the optimum you can acheive studio quality sound on stage.The typical 3band w/swept mids on mixers is inadequate.The preset high and low frequencies aren't necessarily optimum for each drum because each drum has different frequency characteristics unique to it.It is a lot to deal with but if you have them contained in a rack it's not that difficult to hook up.Just plug each preset EQ into the corresponding channel insert.You may have to make minor adjustments in different venues but really no big deal.

ian*

ian*
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And where is the problem frequency coming from?

 

A buzzy, out of tune tom, misplaced mic or speaker-too loud of stage volume, a kick with not enough low end...incredibly loud volume levels? Big arenas?

 

I like my sound O' natural...and that's ok if you don't. Since the biggest clubs I play in aren't really that big. And these big concert clubs that we go to some time where the start really processing the signal? YUK (to me)...clicky sounding kicks so loud that one can dry their hair with? I have to wear earplugs in a rock club anymore?...BULLSHIT...it stinks to me.

 

But being the open minded person I am ( I have a notch filter capable of 24 db shaping, stereo tube eq and a stereo 24 band eq) I might insert some on some upcoming tracks.

 

Now, I hear those Electrix filters are really cool if one wants to morph the sound.

 

Fun discussion huh?

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EQ should be a last resort ... only when tuning doesn't work.

 

If you've got a nice kit with fresh drumheads, you should only need to use EQ to pull out problem frequency. Think CUT rather than BOOST; it's always better to remove from the natural sound of the drum rather than try to add to the natural sound. Adding makes it sound ... well ... not natural. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif

 

If you need more volume from your drummers snare, and you've got the mic happening as described in earlier posts, you might want to make sure your drummer is playing rimshots for his/her backbeats. If the drummer is playing rimshots with a 24" stick height, with an SM-57 one inch from the snare's batter head ... and you still can't get enough volume ... HAVE YOUR HEARING CHECKED and/or turn down the freakin' guitar amp, thus lowering the stage volume.

 

Just a side note: I can't stand it when guitarists point their amps at their knees. God put your ears on your head, so point that amp towards your skull and not mine. You'll hear yourself better and I won't have to play so hard!!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

 

This message has been edited by Bartman on 07-03-2001 at 08:51 AM

Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum
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RE:"Think cut rather than boost"

Hey Bart man,That's what notching is/slicing out all unnecessary frequencies.Even on the most accurately tuned tom you still have dominant and less dominant frequencies.If all of those frequencies go unchecked through the mixers gainstages you simply aren't going to get the best sound possible.Microphones are much more frequency sensitive than the human ear.Even inaudible frequencies can cause problems.By sweeping the frequency spectrum you hone in on the ideal frequencies.Volume is not the only goal here sound quality is my ultimate goal.I just want to be heard in the mix not to over power it.

What genres of music do you guys play???

ian*

ian*
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Originally posted by ian*:

RE:"Think cut rather than boost"

Hey Bart man,That's what notching is/slicing out all unnecessary frequencies.Even on the most accurately tuned tom you still have dominant and less dominant frequencies.If all of those frequencies go unchecked through the mixers gainstages you simply aren't going to get the best sound possible.Microphones are much more frequency sensitive than the human ear.Even inaudible frequencies can cause problems.By sweeping the frequency spectrum you hone in on the ideal frequencies.Volume is not the only goal here sound quality is my ultimate goal.I just want to be heard in the mix not to over power it.

 

Not true. Notching out the room is one thing ... going over the whole kit is something totally different. I've had recording sessions where the EQ was NEVER touched on my toms and they sound great. Drumhead choice, tuning, mic choice, mic placement, the venue ... they all play into the overall sound of the drums going to tape or coming through the PA. Everyone has different tastes I guess. If you need EQ ... great, but don't adopt a mentality that you have to fart around with the sound and turn yourself into a "fader jockey". If you've got a problem frequency ... sure, use the parametric EQ, isolate it and cut it.

 

 

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum
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If they do it exactly as you described, every time, maybe they have to because they play TAMA drums.

 

Guess that's why I don't like TAMA. You have to fool with the EQ just to get them to sound good. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

 

 

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum
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LOL .... I love it!

 

I'm stirring the pot man. Just an FYI, I didn't start this. I held my tongue for long enough ... so I let it fly ... mostly in jest. I love everybody ... I just don't always agree with them. It's interesting that Felix and I were at odds on several topics, but the last few threads we've seen eye to eye ... and have not agreed with Ian.

 

Originally posted by ian*:

I'm curious what genre of music do you play and in what venues?

 

I play or have played in every genre of music ... the same goes for venues: clubs, concert halls, stadiums, theaters, outdoors, churches, etc. Just to give you a little more background, I'm also a session drummer and educator. I've taught drum/percussion, music theory, music/recording technology at several different colleges.

 

You know, we all have different tastes in music and what we like. Just because someone doesn't like what you like or doesn't do it the way you do doesn't mean that you are wrong OR that the other person is wrong. If there was only one flavor of ice cream in the world, it would be a very boring existence.

 

 

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum
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Bart,

I have to admit that I like the debate too!Maybe we were a bit harsh though.You said just because I don't agree with someone elses view that doesn't make it wrong or my view wrong.Well I'll respect your view only if you respect mine.My views are tried and true as I'm sure yours are.

I too have played varied genres and have played club circuits,festivals,stadiums and dives!I'd love to get along because I do like to hear varying views,but we don't have to argue do we.

humbly

ian*

ian*
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Perhaps I was wrong to respond with the same attitude that I was reading into your posts. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/confused.gif Whether you meant to or not, I was picking up an attitude from you that anyone that disagreed with you was an idiot. You never came out and said it, but that's what I heard as I read.

 

I'm sorry. Please forgive me.

 

I love you maaaannnnn! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

 

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum
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Bart,

I sincerely was only trying to rebutt,not to make anyone look like an idiot!We were both offended that anyone would dare question us!If I'm that closed minded I don't need to be on a forum.I apologize and I love you too man!I mean I have to, even though were different were alot alike!

peace

ian*

ian*
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