fet Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 What are some tactics for a drummer to play a punchy rock groove with a pianissimo dynamic? I ask, because the drummer in the worship-service combo I perform with on Sundays - a fine fellow and a good drummer - always struggles with this. He uses those "bundled-sticks" drumsticks, and plays as soft as he can, but this is a source of constant frustration for the guy. He's looking at plexi drum shields now; this seems a bit excessive to me, but...? Many drummers I know seem to struggle with playing too loud for the room or the situation; is this an attitude problem, a technique problem, an equipment problem, or all three? Thanks for any replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clockwirk Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 I've been in similar situations many times. You can't exactly turn everything else up to make the drums balance out, it's a church for cryin' out loud (unless you go to a veeeeeery cool church http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif ). I've found some drummers accustomed to playing rock or funk get used to hitting the rim with the stick as they smack the snare. It gives the snare a huge CRACK sound, but it's not always what you want in a quiet setting. If your drummer does this, see if you can get him to hit the snare only without the rim. Hopefully he'll be able to keep some of the intensity and lose some volume. On the other hand, sometimes I'll be playing quietly and want that CRACK sound at a pp volume, so I'll lower my backbeat motion almost to the point of a ghost note and snap it with my wrist to hit the rim with the snare so it'll jump out, but not too loud. I dunno, sometimes you just need a plexi shield. I've seen many churches with them. My church is close to four thousand members, very open to rock style music, and we still need a partial plexi shield to at least protect the worship leader and singers from the drums. ~clockwirk~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Hey, Fet: If you look somewhere below, you will see a Thread called: "Is there a way to build a drum shield?" by KeyboardFreak. We explore the same very questions regarding volume there. I really believe that in many cases, the drummer plays louder to be able to hear himself (or herself) over the guitar amp!! Don't always look to the drummer to solve volume issues. Also, do not be afraid to crank it in church just a little. The Lord won't mind! DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 ARRGGHH... sore subject. If it makes you feel any better, my favorite drummer here in Atlanta runs into this problem at some gigs. His technique is perfect, and he is capable of playing softly - he's worked at it a lot. His attitude is perfect too - he's played plenty of weddings, corporate gigs and the like and understands that not everyone wants rock-club volume. But some people still think he's too loud! At that point he does get justifiably frustrated because he's done everything he can and it's not much fun for him. Then he has to wonder why whoever hired him even hired him. It's like, it's drums! They're loud! Get over it! In fact my friend cancelled this one gig at a restaurant finally, after having played there twice and being told it was too loud. It was nothing but himself and an acoustic guitar player and both sang. They had one tiny PA speaker turned up to less than 1 (I'm not kidding), and the drummer just had an 18" kick, a snare and one cymbal played with brushes. Still too loud apparently (I was there, and trust me it was NOT loud). Sheeesh. I think Western culture just has a ridiculous fear of drums. Well, maybe not in New Orleans. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif But just about everyplace else. Nobody in Africa seems to care even if there are loud drums going 24/7. Why should we? But I'm preaching to the choir here, I suspect. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 Originally posted by Lee Flier: Nobody in Africa seems to care even if there are loud drums going 24/7. Why should we? Yeah, the only time fear grips the people is when the drums STOP! They know it's time for the bass solo and everyone heads for the hills! LOL Seriously though, you can only play so soft. It's tough to play a driving funk groove when your sticks are only allowed to come off the head one inch. I have had times when people have complained about the volume of the drums. I have the technique to play very, very soft ... using only fingers on the stick and no wrist motion ... they still complain. So, when that happens, I start Air Drumming. I go through the motions and never strike a drum or cymbal. I've actually had people come up and say "that's great, thanks." Basically, in those types of situations, stop thinking like a drummer and act more like a mime. I don't think I would do the white face however; that would be too over the top! LOL ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com This message has been edited by Bartman on 05-16-2001 at 01:44 PM Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fet Posted May 16, 2001 Author Share Posted May 16, 2001 Excellent replies, thanks. I can see how this situation could be either frustrating, laughable or both to a drummer. Nerf drumsticks, maybe? Maybe it might be key for our drummer to look at this as "exciting new technique challenge" instead of "irritating artistic frustration" - though this kind of mental paradigm shift is hard to do, for any musician who has developed a personal style... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 I played a church service on Mother's Day. They had Baby Dedications that Sunday morning, so there were a lot of visitors and extra family members present. The Sunday morning services at this church are "seeker sensitive"; not to be confused with "volume sensitive". Needless to say, the band plays with a nice full volume on stage. You can hear the vocals and understand all the words. There was an older couple sitting just four rows from the front; the gentleman had his fingers in his ears the whole time we played. The band members caught a glimpse of this guy, and it was all we could do from busting out laughing. I know, not a very holy attitude, but it was hilarious. One time I played at a church that was just getting on it's feet. The services were early Saturday evenings; I played on a Roland TD-7 kit (no real cymbals). The volume was so low that the sound of my sticks striking the pads was louder than what was coming out of the PA System. They wouldn't put much of the drums in the monitors either. So I reverted to plugging in some headphones into the TD-7 brain itself, just so I could hear what it was I was doing. Once in awhile I would slip the headphones off ... in total amazement ... I couldn't see how the rest of the band was even playing in time with me because there was no way they could hear me. Maybe that's why they kept staring at me; watching to see when I hit the pads! LOL I've played on several dozen Praise & Worship recordings; live and studio, as well as a huge number of CCM artists. All this to give merit to what I'm about to say next. If your church wants to play the contemporary worship tunes, which incorporates the drums, they need to understand that there is going to be some volume. If they want to minister to the masses, which includes young people, they are going to have to compromise a little bit. Otherwise, stick to the piano & organ duo and quit complaining. If there are only 20 people in the congregation, you would be smart to not use drums and treat it like a small Bible study, home group, etc. 80-85 dB is a comfortable sound pressure level for any human being. I'm NOT suggesting that the music can be over 100 dB and no one should complain. But there is plenty of "high churches" which push over 100 dB ... and they only have an organist! In these situations, the volume is viewed as "godly" and moves the people; but heaven forbid the drums match the organist's volume. Read Psalm 150. You'll notice that God didn't just say to 'play the cymbals' in worship ... he said to play the high resounding (some translations say 'loud', 'crashing', 'clanging') cymbals! He likes it so much that he mentions it twice so you get the point!!! LOL It's time to turn off the hearing aids or sit in the back. If we try to please everyone we'll focus all of our energy worrying about what people think rather than what GOD THINKS!!! Stop whining and worship God! If people would spend more time worshiping the Lord, putting all of their body, soul and spirit into their worship experience, there wouldn't be any room for grumbling thoughts or complaints. If everyone sings ... IT'S LOUD TOO! Sing, dance and clap your hands in worship and you'll probably drown out the drums. All these things I ask in Jesus name; AMEN. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Okay ... I feel better now. This post was more of a open letter to church goers everywhere. Thanks for letting me spew. ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com This message has been edited by Bartman on 05-16-2001 at 06:36 PM Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Preach On ... Brother Bart! DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Bart, that post is CLASSIC!!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I'm rolling here! So do you suppose that's why God took Keith Moon at such a young age, cuz he wanted him in da house band? He certainly did play those loud cymbals! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Too funny, Psalm 150, haveta go check that one out... --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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