Heel Up or Heel Down?

[djarrett]

There has always been this on-going debate about playing the bass drum pedal heel up or heel down.

Personally, I use heel down unless the song is a driving four-on-the-floor!

What do you use and why?

DJ

[mrthirsty]

I started out playing heel down but switched to heel up when I started to play in rock bands. Having used both, I think developing heel down is better for overall control and playing at softer dynamic levels while heel up is great for power. It's weird because there are some bass drum patterns I play that only work if I combine the heel up and down approach, sort of like a rocking motion on the pedal. I really don't think one is better than the other, if using either allows you to play what you want on the bass drum then cool!

[Steve LeBlanc]

Heel up...but I think I'm not as solid because of it.

[DrummerCafe]

I use three different techniques when playing the kick drum.

 

1) Heel down for slow, solid grooves and/or for quiet playing.

2) Heel up using ankle pivot for fast, syncopated grooves and/or quiet to medium loud playing.

3) Heel up using entire leg (and some ankle pivot) for fast, syncopated grooves that need to be LOUD. I also use this technique when I need to play louder than I can with technique number 1.

 

I've got an indepth article on my web site that I think explains basic kick drum pedal technique very well. Even though I wrote the article, I think it's pretty good ... if I do say so myself. LOL

 

Go to http://bartelliott.com/lessons/ and click on the link, Tips for Drummers and Percussionists. The article is called Kick Drum Pedal Technique.

 

 

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[clockwirk]

I always thought that you had to play heel up for power and speed until I saw a clinic by Zoro. He uses primarily heel down technique and has a very fast and powerful foot. He says he prefers heel down because it allows the bass drum head to resonate more, giving it a better tone.

 

I personally play heel up because I like to feel like my bass drum groove is a product of my whole leg and not just my foot. I don't feel like I'm in the pocket if it's all foot. I do go heel down for quiet though.

[DrummerCafe]

When Zoro talks about the kick drum resonating more with heel down, what he is referring to is letting the beater come off the head. There is no physical way that a kick drum would resonate more just because your heel is up or down. I describe this in my article.

 

I would always use heel down over heel up. There's no doubt that the control is better, plus you can balance yourself on the throne much easier when both feet are flat on the floor. It takes a lot of work to play fast and loud with your feet flat on the floor. Doanne Perry from Jethro Tull does an awesome job of playing flat footed; and he plays double bass!

 

 

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[djarrett]

Hey, Bart and Clockwirk:

Naturally pulling the beater away from the head would allow the head to resonate just like pulling your stick off your head. Leaving the beater planted on the head would be liken to a one-handed buzz stroke with a stick.

I believed for a long time that drummers that play heel "all the time" have created a bad habit due to lack of proper instruction early in their playing development stages.

I do not mean this negatively, just factually.

 

I also agree that there are times when I have played for a long, long time, or when I am unmiked and need the volume that I play heel up and basically pound the drum, but always with a *release* from the stroke. Never leave the beater planted into the head!

 

More ...?

 

DJ

[DrummerCafe]

I agree DJ. As I state in my article, if the pedal tension is set correctly, even if you use heel up, you should relax after the stroke and allow the beater to come off the head. I know plenty of pros who do plant the beater into the head with every stroke. I personally don't use this technique, but many use it with great success, especially in the studio.

 

Rather than making you search for the article, here it is in it's entirety.

 

 

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reprinted from BartElliott.com

 

Kick Drum Pedal Technique

Your feet should ALWAYS stay in contact with the pedals; whether you use heal up or heal down, it doesn't matter. The "balls" of your feet should always remain on the pedal boards. If you don't, the beaters just go crazy; and how do you stop or play dynamics? There is also a lot of extra noise from allowing your feet to come off the pedals including the Hi-Hat pedal!

There are lots of players who use heal up only; some play flat footed (really fast!). Both work and are valid. I use both, depending on what I'm wanting to play.

I think that playing flat footed gives the most control, yet requires the most control. It takes practice! For me, I practice flat footed a lot, but when I need more speed (more than I can give using "flat feet"), I lift my heals (only an inch or so). This allows me to play by pivoting my ankle ever so slightly and using my toes (ball of foot). Sometimes I even slide my foot back and forth or side to side, being careful to always remain on the pedal board. Now it is just second nature.

 

I view foot technique just like hand technique!

 

In hand technique you use either arms, wrists or fingers and any combination of these, all depending on what you are trying to do. If I need to play soft and fast, I use more fingers. If I need to play really loud, I use more arm to pick the sticks up higher; not to hit harder!

 

The same with foot technique. You use either flat foot, heal up with ankle pivot or heal up and leg thrust. If I need to play faster than what I can do heals down, I use heal up and ankle pivot. If I need to play fast with a lots of volume, I use heal up and the weight of my leg (working with gravity) to thrust the beater.

 

I teach my students to always allow the beater to bounce off of the Bass Drum head. This seems to produce a fuller sound plus allows the beater to come back to a resting position, ready for another blow. Think of it this way: if you were in a fight, and you were planning to hit this guy square in the kisser, would you punch and push your fist two inches into his face, or would you punch and naturally allow your hand to bounce off so that you are ready for another punch; just in case you were going to have to hit him again and again. The correct answer, I believe, is to allow rebound! The same is with sticks, when you allow rebound the sound is much fuller and pleasing; rather than slamming the stick into the head and muffling the sound. Don't get me wrong, sometimes you need the sound that is produced by ramming the beater into the head and leaving it there; it all depends on the sound you need. I want to have control over my feet to do what I want, not to do it because of habit or because I have no control.

 

In regards to spring tension, here is my opinion. Every person is different; we are all built differently and weigh differently. I teach my students to set the beater/spring adjustment so that when the pedal is just sitting there (your foot is no where near it!) the beater COULD be back as far as being parallel with the floor; depending on how loud you want and need to play. This part is crucial: WHEN YOU PLACE YOUR FOOT ON THE PEDAL (relaxed, just lay it on the pedal), THE BEATER SHOULD ONLY GO HALF WAY (the distance from the beater all the way back, to all the way forward, striking the head) TOWARDS THE DRUM. If you place your foot on the pedal (don't push), and it is touching or only a inch (or so) from the drumhead, you need to tighten the spring and/or re-adjust. If you place your foot on the pedal (relaxed, don't push) and it barely moves (you would have to really push to move it) the tension is too tight. The older I get I realize that the beater needs to be able to "swing freely" as much as possible. In this way, you will be more relaxed, not burn so many calories, and be able to play longerwithout tiring!

 

The above is only my view; however, it does work, not only for myself and my students, but for many professional players. Watch and listen to several PROFESSIONALS who do what you want to do. Copy them and apply it to your playing. Above all, stay relaxed! The "Big Boys" make it look very easy! Why? Because they are relaxed!!!

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

 

This message has been edited by Bartman on 05-10-2001 at 06:49 PM

[clockwirk]

Originally posted by Bartman:

When Zoro talks about the kick drum resonating more with heel down, what he is referring to is letting the beater come off the head. There is no physical way that a kick drum would resonate more just because your heel is up or down. I describe this in my article.

 

 

That's what I meant when I described how Zoro plays. I always try to bring the beater off of the head when I play heel up, but it seems easier to do that if your heel is down. With your heel up, you almost have to pick your entire leg back up to get the beater off. Heel down, you simply tilt your foot back.

I still prefer heel up though because it feels to me like I generate the groove with more of my body and it helps me lock in easier. It's like clapping. I would find it harder to clap to a rhythm in the pocket if I was just using my hands from the wrist down. It's much more natural for me to generate from my upper arm down through my forearm, and into my hands. Same with the kick drum. My upper leg generates the stroke, and then if I need to do a double, I use the foot and ankle more to catch the rebound, a la double stroke with the wrist.

[Steve LeBlanc]

Well yeah, I definitly release the beater off the head like a drumstick.

 

I like having my heel up, I tend to get the sensation of floating through the groove that way.

 

Most of the time I can really feel it this way but I do have a close friend that plays more like Zorro (I think he saw the same clinic as you Bart), he's primarily an R&B drummer...his groove is undeniable...

[DrummerCafe]

I do something slightly different when I play heel up however. When I make the stroke with my heel up, I immediately relax and let my heel drop. The beater naturally swings back (if the spring tension is set right) and I'm ready for another hit. I never suspended my leg indefinitely when I play. I only lift enough so my heel is about an inch off the pedal board, make my strokes and instantly relax letting the heel drop back down.

 

Playing like this allows me to conserve energy and not get leg craps. It also allows me to play with the heel down as much as possible; treating the heel down technique as the "default" technique. I only lift the heel when I need to do something I couldn't normally do with the heel down.

 

Like I mentioned in earlier posts, I use three different techniques; it all depends on what I am needing to do. Like using fingers for fast or very soft playing, wrists for moderately fast and moderately loud strokes, and arm for very loud, not to quick strokes. I believe Dave Weckl talks a bit about the foot technique I've been talking about in one of his videos.

 

Does anyone play heel to toe technique? Steve Gadd and others have used this rocking technique for consecutive strokes (ie. 16th notes for an entire measure) or samba grooves. I've worked on it and can execute it, but haven't found myself using it when I play with different groups.

 

I've got to tell you that I think it's great that you all let the beater come off the batter head. I've been arguing this point for years and always seem to be in the minority. NOW WE ARE THE MAJORITY!!!!! lol

 

 

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[felix stein]

You guys are forgetting side to side.

 

I play the darn thing anyway I can!

[felix stein]

staying on the balls of the feet are very very important...the foot/heel compensates naturally to playing situations easier that way (for me). Up and down strokes are important, I have been noticing this practicing the rudiments with the feet...I try to project the "moeller technique" to my footsies---bizarre concept but it is working for me.

 

I have to agree with the bartman that keeping the footsies on the pedals are important...although I have stomped for visual effect before.

 

try playing standing up, that is a whole new can of worms---I wonder what technique Slim Jim used?

 

it is harder to stay off the head, but sometimes it is harder to stay on the head as well...hence the nasty double or buzz from the beater as the drum head resonates

 

I have been trying to stay off the head and still maintain power the past few years

[captain54]

I cramp up easier with the heel down, when playing over long periods of time..

 

The problem is I dont get anywhere near the speed with heel up as I do with heel down...Seems like with heel up I am forced you work my whole leg into the groove, which naturally carries more weight and slows me down...

 

But with heel down, I can get rapid fire bass strokes by my endurance sucks and usually I just say screw it and switch to heel up....

[djarrett]

Welcome: Captain54!

Please go to the "Inquiring Minds Want To Know" thread and let us know a little about you and your playing background!!

I know want you mean about the cramping. This actually comes from two things:

1) Not properly stretching out (See my lesson on the Drum Channel titled Stretching Out!)

2) Cramps can be related to lack of Potassium in your system. Try eating some bananas! This will help reduce the cramping.

 

Thanks,

DJ

[DrummerCafe]

I agree with DJ on this as well.

 

Another thing that it could be is that you are not dropping your heel back to the pedal board when you are not playing or between strokes. Try lifting the heel, perform the stroke, then let it drop again. You WILL cramp if you try to hold your heel up all the time.

 

Dropping the heel between strokes not only reduces "cramping", but keeps you from tiring quickly and burning calories unnecessarily.

 

I can remember when I first started using the heel up technique. I tired quickly and my upper leg was killing me. Stretching and constant practice should alleviate any discomfort. You do have to build up some endurance since you are working muscles that you haven't used much. Reminds me of ice or roller skating; boy did my calves hurt after skating.

 

If you feel yourself cramping or tightening up STOP. Take a break, shake it loose and do some stretches. Doing this during your practice times will really pay off on the gig.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[captain54]

Maybe I wasnt clear....

 

Its the Heel Down that produces cramps over long periods...

 

I dont cramp at all with the heel up...

 

Is there a pedal make and model thats geared more toward one way or another...??

 

What's a good all purpose pedal that lends itself well for both???

[DrummerCafe]

You cramp with the Heel Down method?

 

That's wild. I guess it's because you are trying to do a lot with the heel down and your muscles haven't built up enough yet. I'm only guessing here, but it seems that through constant work, you should be able to develop enough endurance so that you don't cramp.

 

One comment about cramping, and it goes for the hands as well as the feet. While you are practicing, if you feel yourself cramping ... STOP ... take a break, loosen up and do some stretches. Not only can you hurt yourself by playing through the cramps, but you are teaching your muscles to tighten up in order to play. This is especially common with players working on their speed. In that case, as soon as you feel tightening, you should slow down to relieve the tension. The faster you play, the more relaxed you need to be.

 

I have an article on my lesson pages which describes my warm-up routine. There you will find some indepth discussion on stretching BEFORE you play and/or warm up using sticks.

 

As far as pedals designed for Heel Up and Heel Down playing, I've never heard of any specialty pedals for these techniques. I use several different pedals, but my main ones are the DW5002H Accelerator Double Pedals.

 

Good Luck,

Bart

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

 

This message has been edited by Bartman on 05-15-2001 at 10:26 AM

[captain54]

Yeah, I think you nailed it..

 

I'm not used to playing heel down, and when I do I tend to overdue it and do too much...

 

I've tried a few of your exericises from your website and they've actually helped me....thanks

[djarrett]

I thought I would float this to the top considering a recent post.

This is an indepth look at the heel up or heel down question.

DJ

[Jazzman]

I used to play heels up when doing cover tunes other than Jazz, now I use heel down, don't need to have a lot of speed in most Jazz, just good syncopation with the other drums. I do think that you have better control and good snap with the heels up method. I guess a lot of Jazz drummers use both methods. Depends on the song. Good drummers should be able to do either one at a heartbeat.

 

My 2 cents worth.......

 

Jazzman

[Bunny Knutson]

Originally posted by djarrett:

I thought I would float this to the top considering a recent post.

This is an indepth look at the heel up or heel down question.

DJ

Gee, I wonder which "recent post" you're talking about, Dendy! Ha-ha!

 

Hey, thanks for bumping this thread to the top again. There's some good stuff here. Kick technique is like no other facet of drumming, IMO. It's always a good idea to keep an open mind about using different styles for different purposes, too.