Vinnie

[clockwirk]

Over at the guitar forum they are constantly debating the merits of technique versus feel. The bass guys are discussing Jaco, and I think the Keyboard guys have had it out over a few people as well.

 

This led me thinking. Which drummer has the most balanced combination of feel and technique? Who can play almost any style, but do it with unbelievable groove and stylistic taste?

 

I know that Steve Gadd is a shoe in. But Vinnie Coliauta has always been one of my favorites in this aspect. The stuff he's done from Zappa to modern jazz (like holdsworth) to more traditional jazz (randy waldman trio) to Sting...

IMO he's always playing these different styles with musicality and taste, but not afraid to let fly with some chops once in a while. I also thought his solo album was creative in that he wasn't always trying to burn you down. Most of that album is groove.

 

I noticed that felix said he wasn't a "huge vinnie fan" a while back. What's the general consensus on this guy?

 

This message has been edited by clockwirk on 05-06-2001 at 03:34 PM

[djarrett]

You know, Vinnie used to have a little "attitude" and some folks did not like him. In recent years, he has really mellowed and discovered who he really is. I had even heard that he was going to church now!

 

I think he is an impeccable player and trememdously stylistic. He can take the most intricate time signatures and no matter where the one falls, he makes it groove!

 

It says a lot for a drummer to be able to so effortlessly cover so many styles and genres of music.

 

I also think Manu Katche' and Omar Hakim are great groovers as well.

 

Just me thoughts.

DJ

[DrummerCafe]

I can confirm that Vinnie is a God fearing man; making a life change a little over a year ago I believe.

 

If I had to be honest and only choose one drummer to be the best all-round player ... I'd have to say Marvin \"Smitty\" Smith . Many of you may not know this guy, but he's a monster ... currently playing drums in the Tonight Show Band (Jay Leno). For years Marvin was one of the first call players in New York City, playing all the styles equally well. I love Vinnie Colaiuta , Steve Gadd , and many others ... if I had to pick a favorite it would be . But like I said, being fully honest and not playing favorites, I would say Smitty takes the prize.

 

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[felix stein]

Vinnie did a concert at PIT and everyone was like Vinnie Vinnie Vinnie, hype hype hype...well, the next day my buddy in class said to me..."felix, what did you think of Vinnie?" and I said "I thought he sucked" which floored everybody. He was tweaked we determined.

 

He did blow night too IMHO...but I did get into him after that because he was human and later learned to appreciate some of his previous recordings, including his solo album and Joe's garage. And I mean really appreciate them. Those recordings influenced my playing. I even use his signature sticks when I play the heavier stuff.

 

That is all heard when I lived out there is "Marvin Smitty Smith this, Marvin Smitty Smith that...and that was 95 or 96. I havn't heard enough of him to form a viable opinion.

 

I am still my favorite drummer! LOL.

[DrummerCafe]

When I watch the Buddy Rich Memorial Scholarship video, the one where Vinnie, Dave Weckl and Steve Gadd play together ... I think Vinnie blows them AWAY!!! BIG TIME!!!

 

Before that time, I wasn't into Vinnie that much, but have always dug his playing on Sting and other's albums. On the video, I was able to see him cut loose a bit ... and was impressed.

 

Vinnie is the type of guy who has a pair of sticks in his hands at all times. TRUTH: There is a pair of sticks in his bathroom for those long sit down times (story told by Roy Burns).

 

Vinnie is a hyper individual and is always moving. I think that comes out in his playing. He's not much of a reader ... but definitely has the "go getter" mentality.

 

I also heard from a friend who was at a studio session that Vinnie was on; I believe it was a 4-Him album session. Vinnie is playing this complex sextuplet groove, leans over to take a drag off his cigarette, and doesn't miss a beat! LOL What a trip he is.

 

To me, the drummer's job is to make the music feel good ... and he clearly does that. It's not about chops which he has, and it's not about soloing abilities, which he has ... it's about the music.

 

I don't want to come across as a "Vinnie Flag Waver" ... but the guy is an incredible musician ... who happens to be a drummer.

 

Peace,

Bartman

[djarrett]

Hey, Felix:

I too have known Vinnie for some time. He and I spent some time together when I ran Slingerland Drum Company because (honestly) I wanted him as an Artist Endorser! That never happened, but I did learn some things about him.

I had heard all the things about him being a "blow-head" and all, and perhaps he has done his share in his day, but I really do believe that all that is behind him.

What is true is that he is a very quite and shy individual and really nervous at first meeting.

I have also heard that this comes across at clinics that he does.

 

As far as playing, he *is* the stuff! You know, I have long gotten over the "this guy is better than that guy" stuff and learned that it is important to appreciate every drummer for what they have to offer.

 

Personally, if you I ever had to do a clinic, you would think that *I* sucked! Put me behind a band, and I am right there!

 

Never judge lest you be judged!

 

Thanks,

DJ

[felix stein]

I know I know I know...but his time feel was all off that night. He was playing with some big time guitar player (Alan Holdsworth maybe) that night and some notable bass player. I can't remember. They even had to stop a few bars in one tune and start it over! I'm serious! In front of a packed auditorium of musicians, how unnerving would that be.

 

Granted, I was a beat student at the time and we ripped on everybody cause we were always getting ripped on. But he wasn't playing well...I think he had just gotten out the hospital as well.

[DrummerCafe]

I give clinics on a regular basis ... and I KNOW I suck! LOL

 

I agree with DJ about the "he's better than so and so." The only real reason I mentioned Vinnie, Weckl, and Gadd was because I was very surprised; especially since I hadn't heard Vinnie outside of a Pop album.

 

We all definitely have our bad performances; times when we are just off. I try to think of my drumming like playing golf. During the game, rather than focusing on trying to hit the ball better, just work on eliminating the bad shots! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[djarrett]

Hey, Felix:

I want to reach down into something you said and perhaps this is the topic for another thread, so if you feel the need, copy and paste this into a new post!

You mentioned "Granted, I was a beat student at the time and we ripped on everybody cause we were always getting ripped on." And this is not the first time you made reference to it.

 

I see this too often at the school and especially college level.

Why all this negative re-enforcement today? I really think we all have enough to be down about already. We do not need our instructors or drum peers dragging us down. Why do you think you endured all of this negativity and how did you cope.

Do you think it left a long-lasting negative impression on you?

Did it leave you feeling like you did not measure up?

 

What can we do as motivators, teachers, instructors to make this a better environment for all concerned?

 

Thanks,

DJ

[DrummerCafe]

DJ,

 

Let's start a new thread as you mentioned.

I have an opinion about that too ... believe it or not!

 

Bart