$20: Why I No Longer Feel Remorse For Copying Major Label Music

[Chip McDonald]

(... not that I've actually done it yet...) I found myself at the local mall for the first time this year. While there, thought I'd buy the new Dave Matthew's cd, _Busted Stuff_. I liked the Lillywhite Sessions, so I'm curious to hear it "better" recorded, as well as in a "better" format. See, this supports my philosophical position that if an artist is *respected*, they're still going to sell cd's. [b]HOWEVER...[/b] I first went to Fyes. [i]You've got to be freakin' kidding...[/i] $20.00 for a cd????? I looked at other cd's: they were all $20.00!!! I thought "man, there's no one here... maybe this place is just a fly-by-night, the CEO's are just on crack..." Walk down to Sam Goody. A bit cheaper. $19.98!!!!!!! Looked through the bin, cd's that were just $15.00 2 years ago are now $18???? Looked around, noticed a Britney cd that was on "sale" for $15.95. *Nobody* in this place, either. Here's a heads up to all of you who are actually in that rarified upper echelon of the business: [i]You'd better find out what the hell is going on, because *something* isn't right[/i]. and it's not MP3 downloading. In the auto industry, if cars aren't selling they LOWER the price. Restaurants, if business is slow, have what is called "specials". Bars have this thing called "happy hour". Record stores in THE MALL for crying out loud, trying to sell CD's for $20 a pop?????! Dropped by Walmart tonight to buy a paint roller. $19.95. I'm sure a lot of you "Big Industry Types" are sitting back thinking "it'll sort itself out" or "someone is probably going to fix things shortly", but I'm telling you - when the record stores in the MALL are empty, *you'd better wake up and smell the Sanka*, because this isn't going to last for long.... I'm going to order the new DMB online, where it can be had for $13. An *$7* disparity indicates there is obviously collusion going on. *If kids have to pay $20 at the mall, or even Walmart for a CD - [i][b]you're not going to be in the business of making CD's pretty soon[/b][/i]*.

[Uh Clem]

You have [i]really[/i] got to get out of Augusta.

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by = stevepow =: [b]You have [i]really[/i] got to get out of Augusta.[/b][/quote]What, cd's aren't this expensive everywhere else....? Of course, I left out the "fun" Augusta bits: I went to the Walmart on the Southside of town. Where the air tonight smelled like paint/solvents, and there was some poor sod pulling trash out of the bin in front of the the place and putting it on his head while giggling uncontrollably. But that's ok, I had some really good krapow chicken and kaeng khiao wan kai with tofu. The funny thing is that the family that runs this Thai place doesn't charge sales tax. I hope the IRS doesn't ruin them, they're nice people and make really great food... You're saying Augusta isn't "normal"?

[gtrmac]

Somehow I think that the Record Industry CEO's are not getting good information about what is actually happening "on the street". How could they? They're not even in the U.S. They're in Tokyo and Germany aren't they? Anyway CD's here in Japan go for about $17.00 usually. This price is actually higher than last year. This is for American music. I would agree that they are digging they're own grave at this point unless they have some secret plan in the works (yeah, sure!) :eek:

[Blues Disciple]

I agree its getting outrageous. Here in NC, if you go to a special CD-only store (i.e, Sam Goody, On Cue, Wherehouse, Fyes) the CD's will run about $ 17.99 or so---up to $ 28.00 or more for a double CD set. During my last excursion to Wal-Mart I think the CD's were at $ 15.98 for new top of the charts stuff and as low as $ 13.98 for less popular items (older CD's, less popular artists, bluegrass, Christian--yet of course there were far less selections to choose from). There ar four solutions for me: Either (1.) I go to Sam Goody or some other place that sells used CD's and stack up on all the music I wanted but never bought, (2.) I just joined Columbia House yet again and can get CD's for $ 13.00 or so in addition to special offers (even with the shipping the cost is still less than $ 20.00) or (3.) I purchase either local artists in our local store or (4.) I purchase CD's at festivals and events, many from great but lesser-known artists. CD's purchased locally, direct or at a festival range from $ 10.00 to $ 15.00. And of course you could always get in cooperative with some friends--each buy one CD and then make copies for everybody else--tape or via CD burner. (The only problem there is that also screws the artists out of their cash--same problem with buying used CD's). If CD's hit $ 20.00 for one then I will use these four options exclusively and will avoid the CD store totally. Good thread--- BD

[Wewus432]

That why I said a while back JUST SAY NO! The price of a product is determined by what the market will bear. [b]If enough people just stop buying the price WILL fall.[/b] It's a very simple economic FACT. [b]JUST SAY NO TO HIGH PRICES[/b]

[Xspringe]

[quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]That why I said a while back JUST SAY NO! The price of a product is determined by what the market will bear. [b]If enough people just stop buying the price WILL fall.[/b] It's a very simple economic FACT. [b]JUST SAY NO TO HIGH PRICES[/b][/b][/quote]Not with the music industry! They'll just buy some legislation that legally binds every person in the world to buy at least 2 cds per month :)

[Cowfingers]

[quote] Not with the music industry! They'll just buy some legislation that legally binds every person in the world to buy at least 2 cds per month [/quote]that would be brilliant! we'd all be rich no matter what kind of music we played. oh roll it on!

[doc taz]

What's really obscene to me is the industry's (particularly thr RIAA) reaction to Internet radio in the U.S. The new CARP fees are effectively killing stations, most of which are run independently (meaning out of someone's house, at their own expense). I can't see why Internet radio can't be viewed as a great promotional tool by the record industry in general (which it is IMHO). It's much better in variety than terrestrial (over the air, analog) radio. Most of the CD's I get are due to things I hear on Internet radio, not traditional radio. I have purchased some online, too. (I got Dream Theater's latest double album from Amazon for $17.99. That's $6 to $8 USD off the regular stroe price, and that's not even a sale price, last time I checked!)

[Botch.]

This surprises me, I bought "Busted" for $11 at the local Target (where I now get ALL the "big" releases). And the last Memorial Day the local Circuit City had ALL CDs on sale all weekend for $9, I really stocked up then.

[strat0124]

Unless you are making money off duping that CD, it ain't much different than the days of recording cassettes off albums. So I can't see how anyone could ever feel guilty of doing so, given the predatory practices of corporate music. I mean, legally you're not even supposed to perform songs live without sending some $$$ to whomever owns the copyright. Its six or half a dozen in this argument.

[RobT]

Buy brand new cd's?!? From the big box stores!?!You've gotta be kiddin'. Mall stores are gonna have mall prices to pay for mall rent. Kmart, Target, Circuit City, Sam's Club, BJ's Warehouse all seem to have better prices than any mall store. The specialty used cd stores like CD Warehouse, Repo Records (oh Sam's Jams how I miss thee) will have an even better price that the second tier retailers. If they don't have what I want I do without - until they have it. I hope you all don't pay MSRP (manufacturer's suggested retail price) for everything do you!?! No way am I ever gonna pay $20 USD for a cd. RobT

[LeiDeLi]

Gee...Stealing things because the price got too expensive. That is not a "reason" that is a "motive"...all criminals have them.

[alphajerk]

two words, best buy... cheapest place i have found CD's, and they actually carry a 'decent' selection. i can even find some of my friends bands who are on smaller labels. go figure. prices range from $9.99 to $14.99. its their loss leader.

[strat0124]

[quote]Originally posted by LeiDeLi: [b]Gee...Stealing things because the price got too expensive. That is not a "reason" that is a "motive"...all criminals have them.[/b][/quote]Have you never recorded a cassette from an LP?????

[Franknputer]

Don't mind him, Gene - he's just exercising the right to look down his nose at the rest of the world. :rolleyes:

[Dwarf]

The big problem here is that the record companies are in a state of denial. "People aren't buying our overpriced product, it must be because of MP3s!" They aren't willing to take the blame themselves for their problem. Oh, and to the argument that buying used CDs deprives the artist of revenue - bullshit. They got paid for that copy of the product once. I bought a used car - Ford made no money from it the second time and they are still obligated to process recalls and service bulletins on it. If I buy a used Garth Brooks CD at least Garth doesn't have to come to my house to clean the CD :) -- Rob

[r33k]

Guys, Can I ask a stupid question here? Why aren't all of you buying your CD and records from your local independent record stores? If you're going to get nailed for $15-$17 for a new release, why not at least keep some of the proceeds in town? Regards, Michael Erwin [url=http://www.synthtank.com]Synthtank Studio[/url]

[LeiDeLi]

[quote]Have you never recorded a cassette from an LP?????[/quote]Yes I have. Once you have purchased an original, you have the right to copy it on to other media for personal use. That is completely different than downloading or exchanging copied recordings. I just find it amusing that people are so very high-minded about their morality and ethics...unless they have a motive. :)

[Steve LeBlanc]

There's something very wrong with the fact that you can buy a two DVD copy of "Lord of the Rings" with wonderful packaging and all kinds of notes and pictures, 24 bit audio, etc. for $15 yet most single 16bit CDs cost the same price or higher.

[Felix_dup1]

I get my CDs online (Amazon, usually), and never pay more than $14.99 for them (usually, it's more like $12 or $13). New releases are cheap at Best Buy and Target (regularly anywhere from $9.99 to 11.99). My local spot for buying CD's is a little bit higher. Sale prices are $14.99, regular prices closer to $17.99. $20? Get out of the mall!

[D. Gauss]

if a CD costs more than 11 bucks, i won't buy it. that's the top price my persoanl market will bear. fortunately here in NY, i find lots of new stuff (promo copies, etc) for between 88 cents and $9.99. it's funny 'cause way too often, i've picked up a promo copy (usually in a cardbaord sleeve) of a brand new major label release for 88 cents and still felt ripped off cause it sucked so bad! then i just comfort myself in the fact that i didn't shell out 20 bucks for the thing.... on the other hand, i've bought, and enjoyed tons of stuff by bands i wasn't that familar with, or maybe never even heard of, 'cause the intital investment was so low. years ago, i got turned on to the fountains of wayne that way. :) -d. gauss http://www.betteroffdead.com

[strat0124]

[quote]Originally posted by LeiDeLi: [b] [quote]Have you never recorded a cassette from an LP?????[/quote]Yes I have. Once you have purchased an original, you have the right to copy it on to other media for personal use. That is completely different than downloading or exchanging copied recordings. I just find it amusing that people are so very high-minded about their morality and ethics...unless they have a motive. :) [/b][/quote]So I take it that you've never owned a cassette recording of an album you didn't buy? Its disingenuous to take that route, because we've all done it. The difference is some people reproduce via whatever media and then SELL it....to me thats dead wrong. For a bunch of kids (which is the primary downloaders) to get MP3's (remember the format folks said was shit quality?) of their fave bands is harmless, in fact its like free advert for the artist. When I hear a millionaire bitching about kids downloading MP3s, it has a stench....does it not?

[Parisongs]

CDs in Austin are $17.00 with tax. Austin is supposed to be one of the most expensive places to live right now too. So, at $20.00 a pop, you're getting ripped. That blows. :(

[LeiDeLi]

[quote]...in fact its like free advert for the artist.[/quote]The point is that it is the artist's property, and it is the artist's right to decide how to distribute it and if he wants to use it for advertising, that is his choice...not your excuse for theft. If you were an artist with a highly popular song that you heard playing everywhere, yet your royalty checks were $300 per year, you might have a different perspective on how much free advertising was justified.

[strat0124]

Theft huh? Kinda like displaying Al Gores image for your jollies. Did you get his permission?

[strat0124]

lei...you've been civil to me, and I appreciate it so I just want you to know I'm not trying to hammer you, rather have a civil conversation. It just amazes me how when something is deemed "wrong", it always comes from the haves, the havenots don't make the laws nor do they have the capacity to bankrupt a musical artists by the MP3 generation alone. I seriously doubt that Metallica's wealth is threatened by MP3s. Those bitch sessions Lars "testified" at were kinda like Kenny Lays wife crying on TV, on how she didn't know how they were gonna make it. Copying CD's for my personal use shouldn't make anyone upset, unless you're a corporate suit worrying that you won't meet this quarters 200% profit margin. Regular Americans, working for a living, burning the occasional CD, or making a greatest hits CD on their computer, aren't theives. Anyone questioning those individuals credibility on that level should be in question themselves. Just my cut.

[eightyeightkeys]

Yes it is disgusting. I don't know about the U.S. but up here in Canada there is legislation either pending or already happening to place a tarif on all CDr's to compensate for illegal copying. Christ, I really don't know what I would want to copy ? I believe all CDr's are supposed to go up from approx. 99 cents to approx $3.00 ! (my figures could be off a bit, but this is what I remember from a while back) So, I'm going to have to pay way more for my back-up CDr's and client CDr's etc...to compensate for the "poor" record industry that is having a hard time making a buck these days.........I want to puke. I've got a simple recipe : #1.Record way more interesting and diverse music. #2. But, we've got to know about it. Play this music on RADIO for god's sake. Radio, at least up here, can be really, really bad. SAME TUNES OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER ......... #2.Stop the artist bandwagon. Everybody get off. Let some uniqueness and inovation, even wierdness have a chance. #3. Stop the lip synch'ed, sequenced, fake fucking "live" concerts/TV show, my sexy outfit and dancing are more important than this song shit....Our culture has become use to it for some inexplicable reason. And we're numb. Un excited. Blah. I'd like to be excited about going to see a great band play live or to see a band on TV once in a while that is actually playing live. Concert going needs to be inspirational. An event. Something you look forward to. The Who at the EX. Heart at COBO Hall way back when. Not too long ago, Jeff Beck at Massey Hall(I bought that CD after the show).Earth, Wind and Fire. Yes. Genesis at Maple Leaf Gardens (the first show with the newly developed Vary Lights-blew my mind-I think I nearly cried when they did the Home my the Sea instrumental and the whole vary light structure tilted toward the audience) THAT ! was an event. Young and old alike would be be inspired to buy the CD, go home and practice after a show like that. I was. #4. After the show I'll be inspired to go the the record store and buy that CD AND/or other CD's, maybe even the whole catalog of an artist (I remeber I cleaned out the Jeff Beck CD's). BUT !.... charge a reasonable price for CD's and everyone will be happy and we'll all go back to the record stores again and again. But @ $20-$30 Bucks ! Sorry. I haven't bought a "NEW" CD in a long, long while. Used store here I come. I'm rambling again. :)

[Mr. Downchild]

This seems to be similar to the same controversy that flared up in the late 70's/early 80's over the VCR. The film and television industry eventually found a way to incorporate the (then) new technology into padding their accounts. By current definitions, anyone who has [i]ever[/i] used the record function of a VCR is a criminal. So those of you who have, kindly go down to your local precinct and turn yourself in......you're a bad, bad man. Today, I don't hear MGM/Universal/Warner Bros/etc complaining about theft. I think the MP3 thing will likely go the same way. The hardline is that the paradigm is shifting, folks, like it or not. The only way to close this Pandora's box is to shut down the internet! BTW, if downloaders are criminals, then let's move to indict all the ISPs for aiding and abetting criminal activity. And while we're talking about protecting copyrights, arrest the next bar band who plays 'Freebird' or 'Knockin' On Heavens Door', since they didn't obtain permission from the copyright holder to perfom the song in public. Hey, while we're at it, take the next band who plays 'Here Comes The Bride' at a nuptual, lock them up and throw away the key. Those scoundrels of the earth not only DIDN'T obtain permission from the copyright holder, but made money off of performing a tune they didn't get permission to do. I'm sure all [i]those[/i] guys checked to see if it was in the public domain first....wouldn't want to do anything illegal. Yeah, that's the ticket! Don't get me wrong, as an artist myself, I'm all about musicians getting compensated for their work, but I'm not so blind as to see that things are changing fast, so fast in fact, that it may be time for artists to start asking themselves some serious questions. Whining like children will avail us of zilch.

[Dwarf]

[quote]Originally posted by Mr. Downchild: [b]BTW, if downloaders are criminals, then let's move to indict all the ISPs for aiding and abetting criminal activity.[/b][/quote]As a "common carrier" they bear no responsibility for the content of their lines. In the same way that Bell isn't responsible for the phone call in which you plot to kill someone. [quote][b] And while we're talking about protecting copyrights, arrest the next bar band who plays 'Freebird' or 'Knockin' On Heavens Door', since they didn't obtain permission from the copyright holder to perfom the song in public.[/b][/quote]You don't need permission to play the tune. You can even record it and release it on your next CD. As long as the song has been recorded once it's available for anyone to play or record. If royalities are paid there's no problem. Btw, the venue is responsible for paying royalities on songs played live. -- Rob