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Do you loose something when you don't run your passive bass at full volume?


SteveC

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Originally posted by SteveC:

There is a pad, but again, the problem isn't with the amp, it's at the PA. I send both basses to the PA before anything to do with my stage amp. The stage amp is just a monitor in most cases.

Why? Anyway, I thought you were no longer running through the PA?

 

Alex

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Originally posted by Geoff Byrne:

This effect is well known & pretty obvious in the guitar world - loosing tone/going muddy when turning down the volume.

 

There's a useful mod for guitars that involves soldering a small value cap plus a resistor (I can't remember the values, but I'm sure someone else will know) across the vol pot input & output.

 

This bleeds the treble straight to output & stops the mud.

 

I have it on several of my guitars, but haven't tried it on my one passive bass, so I don't know if it'll have the same effect on the low frequencies, but I suspect it might.

Geoff

You're describing an RC circuit that acts as a high-pass filter. The equivalent concept for boosting a passive pickup (low-pass circuit) was tried by Gibson in the late 50s and 60s using an inductor (click here) coil (the value escapes me at the moment but I think it was 50H - H for Henrys, not Hertz) and it made those early basses sound louder than anything in the bass world. Gibson used a 4-position rotary switch to dial it in/out of the circuit as I think it had to be wired in series with the p/up. Someone out there might be able to dig out an old schematic.

 

On second thought, I believe this is what Alembic used to use as a "third pickup" in passive basses - an inductor coil without a magnet that was reverse-wound to cancel hum on their bass pickups.

Beyond this I'm clueless. Most of my basses are active. :wave:

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Originally posted by Geoff Byrne:

This effect is well known & pretty obvious in the guitar world - loosing tone/going muddy when turning down the volume.

 

There's a useful mod for guitars that involves soldering a small value cap plus a resistor (I can't remember the values, but I'm sure someone else will know) across the vol pot input & output.

 

This bleeds the treble straight to output & stops the mud.

 

I have it on several of my guitars, but haven't tried it on my one passive bass, so I don't know if it'll have the same effect on the low frequencies, but I suspect it might.

 

Torrez Amps, I know, sell these as little mod kits.

 

Geoff

most passive volume/tone controls bleed high frequencies to ground. the value of the resistance determines the amount. (if you dircetly wire the pickup to output it will actually give you a higher top end output.)

 

As you lower the resistance more of the higher freq. are rolled off than the low. hence the sound gets more bass heavy (muddy) then when full on.

 

the capacitor passes more of the high freq. as you roll off the volume. when the volume is returned to full then the cap does not do much.

 

if one was to try to do this mod to a bass i would say to start with a cap with a value of .005uf. i am not sure if a change in the resistor, if used, would be in order.

 

some sort of boost would probably be your ultimate solution.

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SteveC,

 

First, on the original question. I've seen that tone-loss that is pretty much acknowledged by folks here. However, it's not universal. My Gibson (of the monstrous humbucking pickup) does not exhibit this issue.

 

As to your desire to manage multiple basses at a gig, you might consider a mixer. It's not an inexpensive option, but you could manage the tone and volume of each bass separately. The mixer would then go to your Radial DI and on to whatever. If the mixer has multiple outs, you could consider feeding your stage amp from it - it would give you control over both "sides" of your feed.

 

Tom

www.stoneflyrocks.com

Acoustic Color

 

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt

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I could go that route I guess, but I hate to have more stuff. As I said, as much as I like the passive, I may just stick to the 5 string. That way, I know I have everything I need, and it sounds good.

 

The thing is it was a gift from my wife and I hate to have it just sit around and not get used. She knows the issue and told me I could get rid of it for something else that I would use more if I wanted to, but I don't want to sell/trade a nice gift like that.

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I understand the "more stuff" problem, and agree. You could end up with a rack to hold a mixer, di, etc.

 

An alternative is to use the basses for different gigs or different sets in a gig.

 

Or send me the 414 and I'll show the proper appreciation :~0

 

Tom

www.stoneflyrocks.com

Acoustic Color

 

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt

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Actually, I think Tom and Alex have the best combined answer.

 

Just pick a bass and use it for a gig or a set. That works if the set doesn't have a song where I really need the low B. Actually, that's what I have done in the past and just layed back a bit on the passive so it doesn't wreck the blend.

 

And Alex may be right with the use my rig more and the PA on sticks won't do much for me anyway. We just like to have that nice blend and presence that you get from everyone going through the PA.

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