josh a Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I've just been listening to this tune, by Miles Davies and wondering: 1. Who is the bass player? 2. I know its a double bass, but would a P bass or a J better suit this type of playing? 3. What kind of EQ should I do for this kind of playing? 4. Can you recommend any other essential listening of this kind of thing? Not too many, and not too obscure. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Martin Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 1. Paul Chambers 2. I don't think so, since Paul invented the bass part for a classic song.... 3. EQ? What for? 4. Do an allmusic search for Paul, or Ron Carter, or any of dozens of CD's on Blue Note and CTI... Dave Martin Java Jive Studio Nashville, TN www.javajivestudio.com Cuppa Joe Records www.cuppajoerecords.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh a Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 You don't think so what? I just ask because I am going to be playing this song on an electric bass, and was just curious as to what was better suited for when I eventually get a new bass, (I currently have a p.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Martin Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by josh a: You don't think so what? I just ask because I am going to be playing this song on an electric bass, and was just curious as to what was better suited for when I eventually get a new bass, (I currently have a p.) Oh, you can play the song on an electric bass - no problem. And as far as changing the EQ on your bass, just use whatever feels right to you. it'll be fine.... I'd bet that there have been versions of that tune played on electric basses, synthesizers, tubas, organs, pianos - pretty much, anything that CAN cover that melody HAS covered that melody. Now that I think about it, I've played it as a samba, a waltz and a polka (OK, I'm kinda ashamed of the polka...) Dave Martin Java Jive Studio Nashville, TN www.javajivestudio.com Cuppa Joe Records www.cuppajoerecords.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh a Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 Ok, so it doesn't matter, p or j, whatever feels right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Originally posted by josh a: Ok, so it doesn't matter, p or j, whatever feels right? P, J, pointy-headstock Ibanez, whatever. Play the freakin' song and make it your own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Hey Josh, I am thrilled that you are taking on such a project. I am also thrilled you are exploring Jazz. I have been a Jazz fan myself for about 60 years. Jazz is all about exploring. Going places where no one has been before. Make this your song! Get ideas from the masters but play it and make it your own. Jazz is a very, very selfish variey of music. Most Jazz musicians play for themselves and could not care less if there was anyone listening. This may sound very strange but someday you will understand. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh a Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 I see, thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barks Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 For an electric take on this song try the Marcus Miller version on the live album 'the Ozell Tapes'. Love the original though. 'The most important thing is to settle on a bass then commit to it. Get to know your bass inside and out and play it in every situation you can.' Marcus Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 If you play the song with the typical jazz player that I know (and love...), they will barely notice the difference between a Jazz and a Precision. They will just notice that you are not playing an upright. Play whatever instrument you are most comfortable with. For starters, play as close to the style on the record as you can. Do not play a repeating part and don't hit the root at the beginning of each measure. Have fun! Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 "Do not play a repeating part and don't hit the root at the beginning of each measure." The secret of jazz bass playing - revealed by jeremy c! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ransom Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Originally posted by jeremy c: Do not play a repeating part and don't hit the root at the beginning of each measure. Have fun! It's funny that you say that. I used to play with a guitar player who wanted me to play a repeating part and hit the root at the beginning of each measure so he wouldn't get lost. I wasn't having fun. Luckily, I now play with a more adventurous bunch. Much more fun. Oh yeah, I play it on a P-bass. http://myspace-041.vo.llnwd.net/01274/14/06/1274456041_m.jpg pray peace, all love and unity "There are only two kinds of music; good and bad." ~Duke Ellington~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Glad to hear that this crew is more interested in creating new music than in recreating old music. Artist vrs. artisan. Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Martin Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Originally posted by Paul K: Glad to hear that this crew is more interested in creating new music than in recreating old music. Artist vrs. artisan. Nah, it's just that it's a LOT harder to play it like Paul did than it is to make up something new. Dave Martin Java Jive Studio Nashville, TN www.javajivestudio.com Cuppa Joe Records www.cuppajoerecords.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Originally posted by Dave Martin: Originally posted by Paul K: Glad to hear that this crew is more interested in creating new music than in recreating old music. Artist vrs. artisan. Nah, it's just that it's a LOT harder to play it like Paul did than it is to make up something new. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 1: Paul Chambers is a great person to listen to. Listen to some of his lines and try to work a few out to help you with your own ideas. 2: I think that's been answered, any electric bass is fine - but listen to the sound and the note lengths of the double bass phrasing to help you create walking basslines on electric. One tip is to pluck over the fingerboard near the end of the fingerboard though this is not a hard and fast rule. 3: Anything produced by Miles Davis is worth checking out. I especially like Ron Carter's playing in the early and mid-sixties. Also check out Paul Chambers' solo albums and his work with Wynton Kelly. So What has come up before. Two things that people can find difficult playing it are: 1) remembering where they are in the tune during the solos (there are 24 consecutive bars of D minor 7!) 2) Finding the right tempo 3) Creating lines that generally use chord tones on the 1st and 3rd beats of each bar while playing modally It came up a while back here . http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Originally posted by Phil W: ... So What has come up before. Two things that people can find difficult playing it are: 1) remembering where they are in the tune during the solos (there are 24 consecutive bars of D minor 7!) ... Thats where the old raised eyebrows trick comes in. After you have lost count of what bar you're at raise your eyebrows and look round at the rest of the band. The band member who is not looking round with raised eyebrows is the one who is still counting. If you all have raised eyebrows, wait for someone to nod then go to the next section. If no-one nods continue playing until audience is asleep or start clapping.... I don't know the tune by name, just going to check on itunes, sounds like another classic I'm missing. Probably best in this situation to break it into 3x8bar, 6x4bar, 2x12, or 1x16+1x8bar sections or any other. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Well it's AABA. Each section is 8 bars. A is in D dorian, B is in Eb dorian. The trick is to count but many musicians forget. On some tunes, imaginging the melody is a good way to keep your place but on So What the melody is pretty minimal in the first place. http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh a Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 Well, we aren't playing it how it is, I think we're just doing the intro part then the solos, like 16 bars of it in d, then 16 in Eb etc. Something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I think you are playing it "like it is", you just haven't quite noticed yet. The original has a little bass and piano intro that hardly anyone ever plays. The "intro part" with the bass melody answered by the piano is the head of the song. In other words that's the melody of the song. It has exactly the same changes as the solos. 16 bars of Dm7 8 bars of Ebm7 8 bars of Dm7 I'd be really surprised if you were doing it differently....and if you aren't following the original form, there is no reason for you not to. In fact, it is actually bad for the learning process to simplify the song....you need to learn to hear in eight bar phrases. Your bass line will be primarily using the dorian scale. You can add a few chromatic notes such as 4 #4 5 or 6 b7 7 1 That gives you these notes to work with in D: D E F G G# A B C C# D The Eb part is a half step higher. With my students, the exercise is use is to first make up a bassline hitting the root on the first beat of every other measure: on measures 1, 3, 5, and 7 etc. Then make up a line hitting the root on the first beat of every fourth measure: on measures 1, 5, 9, 11 etc. Finally make up a line hitting the root on the first beat of every eighth measure: on measures 1, 9, 17, and 25. If you can do that without thinking a lot, you have internalized the eight bar phrases which make up the song. You will not get lost and if you play confidently enough, neither will anyone else. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Ah So That's So What? I've probably heard it a million times. I really must make more of an effort to find out what these tunes are called and who they are by. It seems Steve Gadd's done a version as well. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcr Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 If you don't already have one, go out & pick up a copy of Kind of Blue RIGHT NOW!! It is an amazing album, & Paul Chambers was the man. As was mentioned above, you can get an upright-ish sound by plucking the strings over the fretboard. But who knows--in your combo, the electric bass sound might be just the thing. Experiment. And yeah, be confident & assertive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraub Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 AAhhh, college Jazz band. I remember playing So What in college band, and it was good. I actually got compliments from my teacher for accurately copping the head and melody. Played on an Ibanez Musician fretless 4 string. Definitely do the studying, do the homework, and then play the ass off it. That's what I did... Peace, wraub I'm a lot more like I am now than I was when I got here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 So What by Miles Davis Lyrics written by Eddie Jefferson Verse I ------- Miles Davis walked off the stage, Thats what the folks are all saying. Oh yes he did leave the stage, After his solo was all over. Coltrane he walked off the stage Thats what the folks are all saying. Yes they both left the stage Clean out of sight... Verse II -------- They felt they had to rehearse... Although we know they are masters They get a real Groovy sound, And you will have to admit it. Verse III --------- Yes they both left the stage... Soon as their solo's were over. And if you can't figure out, Their groove I'd like to help you... SO WHAT!!!! Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Thanks Jeremy, enjoyed that. I would love to play the piano/bass intro in live performances too - must talk people into it. Haven't played the tune for a while though. Anyone else love the George Russell big band version where the band play Miles' solo arranged as the melody? http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Here's a good lesson on modal jazz bass, by Cliff Engel, using So What as a subject. http://www.instituteofbass.com/bass_lessons/cliff_engel/modal_tunes/ The lessons on this site seem very good. http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Jim Stinnett's lessons here 'One Chord Only - Dm' and 'Quarter Note Melodies' are very relevant here. http://www.instituteofbass.com/bass_lessons/ Scroll down. http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moop Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Phil, This doesn't have much to do with your original post... but I just checked out some of your music and am really impressed by your intonation! Hardly any sliding, or or vibrato on your notes. Well done! I can tell that your influences are those playing upright, and fretted. Hitting clean/precise notes on an unmarked neck is a skill, my friend! live in the now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Man, that's very kind of you! The cheque is in the post! My intonation has improved massively in the last few years since I've been taking lessons and practisinf properly instead of the aimless noodling that I use to call practising in the old days. I hate to listen to my intonation on old recordings. One of my teachers told me that I play the bass in tune (despite my poor/unorthodox technique). And yeah - I listen to a lot of upright. I think that playing the same bass all the time helps - as does having to do an impression of a fretted player on most gigs. I don't like to over do vibrato. A lot of playing in tune is actually down to confidence. The following are my recommendations for improving intonation: 1 practice (of course) 2 sight reading 3 conventional left hand fingering and playing in positions 4 having to sing backing vocals 5 general ear training/imporvisation with other players 6 looping! 7 playing along with records josh a, please excuse this diversion - I guess it's vaguely relevant moop, you made my day! http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh a Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Don't worry Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.