Ross Brown Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 How many guitars are too many in a classic rock/blues band? I am considering suggesting that we add a second rhythm player to the band. We need more vocals and our current rhythm player is having trouble showing up to practice. He is juggling many things on the home front, but has had several occasion recently of not being able to make practice (last minute). One time he called and said that he could only come if he could bring his young children. That meant that my wife would be stuck watching them. She is a very gracious woman and is as supportive of my playing as one could wish. I said no way. He was able to make other arrangements somehow I know this is a fairly common thread Trouble with band members... but I just wanted bounce it off of the group. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowbee Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I hate to say it Ross, but I think that if you're planning on getting someone else in, it makes more sense to replace the current guitarist. That is of course after you guys have sat him down and made it clear that his current level of commitment is causing issues within the band. I would offer him another chance to sort himself out; it could be that he is thinking the band is a little inconvenient right now and maybe wants a break from playing. Now theres three of you in a band, youre like a proper band. Youre like the policemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Bordwell Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 One is all I can handle www.cbbasses.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 One other thought. I had been considering (and suggested) adding a fifth person that brought vocals and any other instrument (ie keyboard, harmonica, etc). What has changed is that now I am wondering if the fifth shouldn't be another guitar. Maybe a bad compromise.... "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowbee Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I'm not a big fan of lots of guitars in a band, I'd prefer to have keyboards or some kind of wind instrument rather than another guitar. I think there are more textures you can add to a band that could ultimately make it more interesting. Now theres three of you in a band, youre like a proper band. Youre like the policemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocko777 Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 If you got a Key/Guitar/Harp/Sax/Violin player to cover the other stuff and it worked out with everyone that would be cool. Have a talk with the current player and let him know your concerns. Hopefully it'll give him some motivation to get better... or get out. Brocko Don't have a job you don't enjoy. If you're happy in what you're doing, you'll like yourself, you'll have inner peace. ~ Johnny Carson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabottomend Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I guess it depends on the new guitar player. The best band I have been in (to date) had three guitarists, one of which was very happy to just play rhythm. He was happy to bang out chords all night long, a la "Guitar George". If he and the rest of the band know their roles and are happy, it should work out. Do not be deceived by, nor take lightly, this particular bit of musicianship one simply describes as "bass". - Lowell George "The music moves me, it just moves me ugly." William H. Macy in "Wild Hogs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 In a small rock outfit, everybody sings well or they go! sounds like he should have been gone much before this! All you need is ONE good guitar player who sings his ass off! http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanD Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Is there supposed to be a guitar player in a rock band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gollihur Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 We have two guitarists in the band (four piece w/bass and drums), but they'll bring in a third for some gigs, like this past Saturday. He's a special player, really wails and takes mad solos-- however, three guitars seems to junk up the mix IMHO, there is just too little air in the sound -- we aren't doing Phil Spector tunes. I don't see the need for a third guitarist under ordinary circumstances. 1000 Upright Bass Links, Luthier Directory, Teacher Directory - http://www.gollihurmusic.com/links.cfm [highlight] - Life is too short for bad tone - [/highlight] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamy ALB Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 It seems to me like this is about sitting down for a hard conversation and I don't envy you. If his home front situation is only tempoary you are in danger of adding fuel to the fire. I know that in my band we all go through personal crisis every so often where the band slides down the priority list, I think this is just a fact with people. On the band front I prefer the sonics of guitar, bass & drums plus the 3 way spilt is better than a 4 way, if he does decide to leave. http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Little-Bitter/185235472447 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I'm in complete agreement with most of the posts; adding a player other than a guitarist would be tons better. And two or more guitars chunkin' away on the changes DOES junk up the mix; there's just no sonic space for anything else. Have you considered doing just a trio? Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I am assuming you have a good lead guitar, one rythm guitar, bass, drums and keys. It's always nice to have a spare of everything but not practical. A good key board can cover for a missing rythm guitar. I would go with new new guy. Your original player is not able to change his priorities and he should not put the band ahead of his family. How many guitars are too many? It depends on how good they are and if can they play different stuff. You don't need three rythm guitars all banging away on the very same chords. IMHO Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Good input, so far. Thanks everyone. Our lead player is fantastic. I have played with him in a trio setting. It was OK but adding the second guitar definately improved the sound, so I don't really want to go back there. I am leaning toward agreeing with the idea that another guitar would junk up the mix. We definately need another voice. I will talk with him but may wait a week or two. Might take care of itself, in that he quits or makes adjustments. I agree that family is first. However, we all have families so that makes it all the more important to be at practice when scheduled, etc. The rest of us have taken time away and would like to make the best use of that time. Also, we have a set practice day and time (Friday evenings) but happily change it to fit someones personal life. I just have trouble with his last minute cancels. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 What tunes are you playing that you NEED a rhythm guitar player for. We have Keys and sax in addition to Guitar and Bass. We recently did a gig with just Bass, Guitar and Drums and we were able to cover all the tunes with not too much problems, just some bass and guitar lines had to be slightly altered to suit. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Originally posted by TimR: We recently did a gig with just Bass, Guitar and Drums and we were able to cover all the tunes with not too much problems, Stevie Ray Vaughan and Tommy Shannon did a pretty good job with the bare minimum. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Originally posted by Rocky3840: Originally posted by TimR: We recently did a gig with just Bass, Guitar and Drums and we were able to cover all the tunes with not too much problems, Stevie Ray Vaughan and Tommy Shannon did a pretty good job with the bare minimum. Rocky Yes they were amazing. I watch a couple of videos I have of them over and over to try to understand the fullness of the sound and how they did that. We could go as a trio but none of the rest of us sings. If a band can be a classic rock band without vocals, I believe that we would be very very good. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihategarybettman Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I think you have to talk to him. It's obvious that he either doesn't fully realize how much he's putting the rest of the band out, or doesn't care, and it's not fair to you or the rest of the band. I remember one time when I was in a band and I also had two full-time jobs. I realized that I couldn't supply the required commitment, so I bowed out and quit the band; your friend obviously hasn't come to tjhis realization yet, so it needs to be brought to his attention. It may hurt a little in the short term, but it will be better than long-term resentment and lost opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Oh OK you didn't make it clear he was your lead singer. That would be the bigger problem. I forgot to mention though, that we were also missing our singer and we had a dep. It was a most surreal experience, none of us really knowing what was going to happen next. It opened my eyes a bit more as to how a talented singer can just turn up and sing the tunes without too much hassle. We had one practice with her a few days before the gig. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Originally posted by TimR: Oh OK you didn't make it clear he was your lead singer. That would be the bigger problem. Yea, bigger problem... "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ellwood Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Ok there is a practical logistical issue here that just about everybody that does anything outside of normal family things, home, job etc. kind of activities, even hobbies like bowling, golfing etc. take up three hours or more. It is just about impossible that anyone can't find time to rehearse out of an entire week! IF they REALLY want too! Anyone that cannot find three or so hours for themselves is either not mature enough to know how to schedule things or just does not want too! http://www.thestringnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklab Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Two guitar players works in most situations. It's pretty standard for most blues/classic rock situations. As for this situation? If you and your bandmates think that a lineup change will make the band better, and the situation is about more than just hanging with these guys, then maybe you should make a move. I would just see if the rest of the people in the band think it's the right move, too. Obligatory Social Media Link "My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Originally posted by Nicklab: Two guitar players works in most situations. It's pretty standard for most blues/classic rock situations. As for this situation? If you and your bandmates think that a lineup change will make the band better, and the situation is about more than just hanging with these guys, then maybe you should make a move. I would just see if the rest of the people in the band think it's the right move, too. Yea but three guitars (1 lead, 2 others) is too much, right? We are in it to play music. We don't hang out together otherwise, yet. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Originally posted by ellwood: Ok there is a practical logistical issue here that just about everybody that does anything outside of normal family things, home, job etc. kind of activities, even hobbies like bowling, golfing etc. take up three hours or more. It is just about impossible that anyone can't find time to rehearse out of an entire week! IF they REALLY want too! Anyone that cannot find three or so hours for themselves is either not mature enough to know how to schedule things or just does not want too! So true. That is why we try to have a regular day and time for practice. That way our families know we are not available for anything elase. Helps all around. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Blue Oyster Cult had four to five on stage at a time. Three is nothing exceptional. The trick is to have them play arrangements, and play them pretty strictly.And getting 4 guitarists to play arrangements without improvising is about as hard as getting a cow to do calculus. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Originally posted by Picker: Blue Oyster Cult had four to five on stage at a time. Three is nothing exceptional. The trick is to have them play arrangements, and play them pretty strictly.And getting 4 guitarists to play arrangements without improvising is about as hard as getting a cow to do calculus. I think with the right musical director or whatever they are called in a rock band, that would be the way to go. But as you suggested, that may be tough otherwise. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 In a trio, if one is sick, has car trouble, or can't make the gig for a valid reason, you are in big trouble. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhcomp45aol.com Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 All you need is one guitarist and a bass player who sings his ass off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newf Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Just have a chat with him and if he honestly can't make the weekly practice then you need to get together with your other bandmates and make a collective decision otherwise resentments may start to fester. Especially if you were to get a gig on short notice and he couldn't make it. Two guitarists should be enough IMO but more is fine as long as all are on the same page with one another. Cheers and good luck. Newf Originally posted by Picker: ...getting 4 guitarists to play arrangements without improvising is about as hard as getting a cow to do calculus. I nominate Picker for POTD. Can I put this in my sig Picker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowbee Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I think the only band I've seen with more guitarists than I could count and yet sounded great was Lambchop and that was because of the subtlety in what they were playing. Now theres three of you in a band, youre like a proper band. Youre like the policemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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