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Accugroove, Schroeder, Epifani..thoughts?


ArwinH

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Well, I've been thinking about speaker cabs a lot lately, and the more I think the more I realize that My goal would be to have a 'fairly' transparent single sensitive cab that's still portable.

My thoughts have been lingering to three specific cabs: The Accugroove El Whappo Jr, the Epifani UL410, and the schroeder 1212.

The Jr would be the flattest out of the group, I'm not absolutely positive on it's weight now that it has neo drivers, but it would be an easy lift. It is said to be very sensitive, and driven well by an amp such as my db 750 at 4 ohms. The highs on this cabinet would be the most polite out of the bunch, but that thought actually appeals to me,as I find it easier to dial in highs though my amp or bass( the onboard preamp can provide a very nice lower treble snap, while the ag can get more airy sounds or higher voiced bite) that to dial out unwanted, overhyped high end.

The Epifani weighs in at a beefy 57 pounds. The cab has a more pronounced upper mid sparkle and more aggresive tweeter and high end a la marcus. The sound id very refined and transparent, not as flat as the accugroove, but wuite flat indeed. I hope PJR will chime in at this point, because )as far as I know) he is still using this combination.

The schroeder is a transparent cab and is very sensitive, but it is not flat in the sense of the accugroove or even the epifani. The schroeder cabs, specifically the 1212, are said to have a low mid bump around 250-200. They have a very refined high end, and are supposed to be very sensitive and portable with a small footprint. The cabinet weighs 74 pounds.

I am yet to have any playing experience with any of these cabs, the sad truth. I would like very much to, as the various aspects of the cabs construction, sound, and the reputation of the builders has me GASing like crazy.

Another consideration would be the price of the cabinets. The schroeder sells for about 750, while the epifani would go for about 1200, and the jr would be the most expensive at 1400. It makes me wonder if the pricemarks reflects the respective cabs quality. As far as I am concerned all of these cabs are of exceptional quality and tone.

Decisions, Decision, GAS, Decisions.... :( ..... :P:D

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Just make sure it can switch between 4 and 8 ohms....

 

 

You can stop now -jeremyc

STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring

lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum

I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie

 

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Originally posted by greenboy:

Genz Benz NeoX212

Where have I seen that before? Becoming Green Boy's mantra, akin to Tenstrums "Ampeg" reply! :)

 

Sorry; I have no experience with the cabs your pondering, Arwin. Choose wisely!

"Am I enough of a freak to be worth paying to see?"- Separated Out (Marillion)

NEW band Old band

 

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It's really only a mantra because I think people are overlooking something that's a good design - for some less obvious reasons like form factor as well as the factors that everybody recognizes) and a lot of bang for the buck. I try not to push only the gear I have {and if I were switching gear practically every month my word would be suspect anyway ; }

 

Actually I'd like to see more entries into the three-way field that are taller than wide, with vertical driver alignment. The polar response that comes from that makes for a better stage mix and seems more coherent for the venue too, if there is little or no PA support.

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....I hope PJR will chime in at this point, because )as far as I know) he is still using this combination....
Can't comment on any comparisons between the cabs you mentioned as I have not auditioned any but the Epifani.

 

That said.....yes, I'm an Epi man. Been one for 2 yrs solid now.

 

PJR

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Out of the three I'd say the Whappo Jr. if it's anything like the Bill Dickens cab I played. Both are variations of a 212. Mike (FunkyLemz) has a Jr. on the way that I'm really looking forward to trying out. He's getting a steal on a used one. Remember the value of buying used. It's taken me a long time to get to the point where I can say that.

 

Haven't played the Schroeder. I tried the Epi (I think it was that 410) and liked it but it wasn't my cup o' noodles.

 

On the other hand, I've been hearing a lot of good things about Genz Benz lately (not just from greenboy ;) ) so I think they're probably a good thing to look into at the very least.

 

By the way, I've been hearing Genz Benz pronounced a few different ways. Is it pronounced "jenz benz" or "genz benz"? :freak:

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I played the Genz Benz 400 combo, which has their neo drivers. Sounded very good to me. I haven't played the others. I know BP said that the Accu that they reviewed lacked on the high end a bit. Thing is, I'm not picturing Jeremy loving a cab that isn't pretty full range, so I wouldn't be concerned about that.

 

Tom

www.stoneflyrocks.com

Acoustic Color

 

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt

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Stevec- I'm running through two aguilar gs210's, They sound good and they have a lot of punch, but they have a percievably colored sound, and I'm not sure I particularly enjoy the color that these cabs add to my sound, and then there's the weight and I'd probably prefer a single cab.

GB, what about the neo212 do you think deserves such merit? Also the newer epi's are very different from the older ones, the crossover was redesigned and the neo drivers do add subtle color to the mix, although the crossover is the biggest difference, as well as the construction differences between the t series and the nyc/ul series cabs.

Davio, so far I'm leaning towards the ag out of the bunch, but I'd rather look thoroughly at all of the options as it would be quite a while before I took the plunge anyway...

Which makes me think about acme cabs...but again, the only true benefit would be tone, where as with the other cabs I would also get better portability in a single cab.

And I'm not even sure if 975 watts at 2 ohms would be enough to drive the acme's well enough.

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All speakers "have color". So how are various Neos different in that regard? Maybe just different shades than what has gone before? (Reminds me much of people who think all 10, 12, 15 cabs sound the same, for that matter).

 

I already stated a few of the things that were better about that cab in my opinion. I just don't care past that. It's just another cab : }

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Curious if you've tried Euphonic Audio. I've played all of the cabinets you've mentioned and even own a couple but the most transparent are the EAs IMHO. Shroeders and Epifanis are not that transparent and Accugroove is more transparent, more on par with EAs.
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Transparent cabinets aren't for everyone.

 

I like my Acme's a whole bunch; part of the reason I purchased them was due to the fact I loved the sound of my Warwick through quality headphones (Grados, etc.). If I wanted to get the sound, I needed something transparent.

 

However, a lot of the time I use my preamp to get a more typical rock sound with the Acme's (my Demter preamp supplies a wide variety of sounds with the few controls on the front panel).

 

That's part of the reason I purchased the Bergantinos (HT112 and EX112); they have a colored sound I REALLY enjoy; they also have the smoothest response (HT112) of any tweeter I've heard from a manufacturer save Acme. I can get that low-mid burp out of the Bergantinos with very little effort, yet it doesn't sound empty (like I experience with Ampeg).

 

Another great rock-and-roll rig I have used in the past was the SWR Goliath III Jr. + the SWR Son of a Bertha. Those two cabinets pair up very well and sound fantastic together for rock-and-roll.

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I like color in my bass as well. When I say I want a transparent cabinet, I mean I want a cab that will amplify the sonic qualities of my head and my cab. Neither of these give me a completely flat response, but I want the characteristics of these parts of my chain reproduced with a full range response. I can definitely hear the color my cabs add to the mix. The color of these cabs is nice compared to the color of other cabs I've used with my head. I prefer it, but I'd rather have a more full range sounf out pf the cab rather than the sound of 2 210's right now. It will definitely require more though on my part though. It's not a decision I'm looking to rush.

Also, all of the cabs I've mentioned are realtively lightweight for their sensitivity. It would be great if I could get one lightweight cab to replace my two lightweight cabs, which I must use together most of the time. Thanks for input guys.

Also, bergantino cabs are some that I have not been able to try yet. But I don't think these would give me a drastic improvement from my already good cabs.

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This is a topic that is full of unlogic and doubletalk. All cabs color the sound of bass, pickups, electonics and cable capacitance, and heads/amps. In fact, everything in that signal chain has its own contribution to coloration.

 

What does an electric bass sound like amplified, through a system that perfectly reproduces its tone and amplitude envelopes. NObody knows, because it's never been done. And that's all you have to compare with, really, since putting one's ear to the body while playing is only a poor aproximation of the bass's sound were it boosted to performance levels - partly due to Fletcher-Munson.

 

But some systems components are arguably better at approaching the "flat", transparent ideal when assembled, and those are the ones that come closest to making the bass's acoustic sound at a higher amplitude. There are no two ways about this - but there are bragging rights that come into play all the time about various combinations.

 

Like the man said earlier though, most people in many situations are happy with very colored combinations that in no way approach the sound of the bass itself. Our rigs from the strings and pickups outward have a lot of sonic traditions behind them and serve as providers of a stage mix as well as grist for what a recording engineer might do to alter/filter.

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There's also the phenom I've stressed a lot lately, of taking advantage of local psychoacoustics. Getting better polar response at all frequencies makes a perceptible difference in how well you are represented in the stage mix, and how well you hear the brunt of your tone. It doesn't matter what your cab sounds like to your knees, but getting the majority of freq's up higher and with good polar response will really improve the imaging the head hears.

 

Right now the majority of cabs are too stoutly rectangular to do this well. Half of what's cool of two cabs is that you can still take advantage of 1/2 waveform low-end coupling from the drivers near the floor and still hear the more directional midrange and treble from the top cab. Better yet, using a few similar drivers vertically will improve HORIZONTAL coverage without so much reflective sound from similar drivers on a horizontal plane glancing off ceiling and floor, or comb filter effects.

 

Of course some like the comb filtering of a 410 cab, but tall is definitely full of advantages.

 

Alex's preferred way to set up his two 210 Acmes is a great way to go with that particular cab because you don't need a lot of acoustic coupling to have deep rich bass with those cabs but you do get some from the bottom two woofers in a curve somewhat coutneracting Fletcher-Munson, and the 4 10s in a vertical line are getting the entire bandwidth to his ears relatively free of destructive filtering, not competing so directly with out of phase and reflective sound. And he's getting good wide horizontal polar coverage so his tone doesn't shift radically if he moves a lot from side to side. And of course his bandmates on stage are getting more to go by too.

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Euphonic Audio NM-410

Configuration: 4 x 10"

Woofer: 4 Custom Neodymium Kevlar 10"

Tweeter: 1" Titanium Compression Driver

Tweeter Level Control: located on rear connection panel

Frequency Response: 45Hz to 14kHz

Sensitivity: 103dB @ 1m

Sound Pressure Level: 133dB @ 1m (as Loud as an SVT)

Power Handling: 1000 watts

Impedance: 8 ohm

Connection: Two Speakon

Size: 25"W x 22"H x 18"D

Weight: 76 lbs (34.5 kg)

Handle: One removable handle & integrated casters

 

http://www.euphonicaudio.com/2005/products/nm410.htm

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Originally posted by SteveC:

So the Bose people aren't too far off with their pole.

Apart from the fact that the bass comes from a decidedly poxy subwoofer. Good idea (not their's anyway...) but poor implementation.

 

Mike's NM-410 suggestion is a good one. But I'm sure EA would concede that a pair of NL-210s will sound a bit better. And then you're back to two cabs.

 

If you're looking for accurate sound then EA, AccuGroove or Acme are the way to go. But I won't be buying any AccuGroove until they've recovered their credentials, which will require some straight-talking instead of more marketing bs and dubious patent pending claims. Acmes usually like more power than your head is rated at, however I've heard so many good things about the DB-750's ooomph that I'd seriously consider a pair of Low-B2s. A pair of EA NL-210s would be a fine choice if you prefer a little less bass weight and extension and brighter highs.

 

As Greenboy says, there's no substitute for your speaker array being the right size and shape for optimum focus and dispersion, and no single cab is tall and narrow enough. Though the discontinued EA 310 comes close.

 

Is there really that much to gain from replacing the Aguilars?

 

Alex

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C.Alexander Claber: As Greenboy says, there's no substitute for your speaker array being the right size and shape for optimum focus and dispersion, and no single cab is tall and narrow enough.
I'll say it again: the Genz Benz NeoX212 is one of the remaining few that works great in this regard. That six or so inches of extra height makes all the difference. And its wide enough for a rack or head on top of it to match width and not to look like a toppler.

 

A guy showed up with it at an open mic night at one of the bigger clubs around here; sonically I was most impressed by it ands it took all I needed to give it without a blink. What really clinched my impression was that not only were other bassists digging it, but GUITARISTS were actually remarking on how well it sounded! That is very rare with these guys.

 

Here's where I rank on Epifani for changing from the vertical 212 design they had which was about the same as the Genz Benz, to a box that's the same size as a 410 - just like every other clown company that wants you to buy a stack just to hear more direct sound. That original Epifani 212 box was just tall enough to be a few feet away and get good representation, and it really was impressive.

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Originally posted by ArwinH:

I just checked out the gb neox212.

Hah! That took me a second to figure out. I thought you were refering to it as "the greenboy neox212."

 

Sounds like we might have another signiture piece of equipment on our hands: the greenboy 212. :rolleyes:

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