getz out Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I am curious about this. Say, for example, if you were in a band. Hypothetically, we will call the band Third Henry. The band is approached by a new independent label formed by a longtime producer and a longtime engineer. The label wants to sign Third Henry, pay for recording, provide cash for promotion, and has secured fantastic distribution (say, Sony's Red distribution). They would also provide some support for booking good venues during the CD promotion. Recoupable costs will eat up the first 7,000 album sales. After that, the band makes a royalty off sales, plus publishing. This is not a lot of money. A very successful release would be 25,000 units. This would not be enough to live off of for anybody; income would have to be supplemented by performance income. Now, let us say you are a bass player for Third Henry. You co-wrote about half of the songs to be recorded. You have a good job, you live comfortably, you are in your late 20s, and you are engaged to be married. Signing the deal means you need to go on the road to support the album. It means you need to quit your job for something that will most likely provide you with a very small fraction of what you are currently making. However, it is a chance to be a rock star. What would you do? I am curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke73 Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 A very tough question. I would probably turn down the deal, and spend the rest of my life wondering what could have been. But only Third Henry's bass player can decide what he or she should do. http://www.myspace.com/twoshortrocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddiePlaysBass Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 What Luke73 said "I'm a work in progress." Micky Barnes The Ross Brown Shirt World Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uber Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 hell yeah ,id do it. you can only regret what you have not done in life, never what you have done because even if it was a disaster you still learned from the experience, and if the oppertunity came by again you could make the same mistakes exactly!! cheers, craig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxofunk Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Regarding Henry, I'd be inclined to keep the day job with the pay, benefits, and all 'round security that comes with it. However, there's a part of me that would be inclined to take advantage of those benefits by... um... let's just suppose that the bass player for Third Henry has a minor accident that makes him inable to "perform required tasks." Maybe his regular employer has a plan in place for just such an occasion, and he gets to maintain 60-100% of that regular salary while he's incapacitated for 90 days or so. Would that be enough time? - Matt W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim C Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 i would definitely do it, that's the chance of a lifetime even if "third henry" crashed and burned it would be a stepping stone into the music indusrty, plus it would just be awesome to go on tour hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 6 or 7 years ago i would have jumped on the chance. Now, I've got too much responsibility and have worked too hard on my career just to drop it. Plus, I'm too old and much too realistic to think I can make it as a rock star. It's all for fun now a days. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted October 13, 2005 Author Share Posted October 13, 2005 Interesting responses. I guessed the younger guys would jump and the older guys would balk. Thanks for the responses, I find it interesting. Matt, interesting thought. There might be an agrument for short-term disability for someone doing this. However, tour support would probably be more like 6 to 9 months. I agree with Tenstrum nearly 100%, even down to the "6 or 7 years ago." The way I would look at this situation if I was the bassplayer in Third Henry would be "why ruin my enjoyment by turning it into a career?" But that is just me and this is hypothetical. I am pretty sure I would do the same thing if the situation really presented itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pernax Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 The question is quite "black or white", but if I'd had to choose, I'd say it's time for rock and roll, baby! Fortunately, in today's world it's still possible to have a bit of both; a decent job and a somewhat successful career in music. I have no misconceptions about the odds of making it big enough (especially with the type of music I play) to be able to support ones self so that you have something put away for a rainy day too. Someone could argue that if you don't think big and aim high you wont succeed, but I still choose to keep at least one foot firmly on the ground. -P (up to 200 characters) You may use UBBCode in your signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfxj Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 In my 20's and engaged - I would definitely go for it. In my 40's, married with three kids and a mortgage - not so much. Push the button Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57pbass Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 The one element that is missing is the amount of time you can give to the music scenario. If you can sustain your monthly nut for the amount of time you would need to reassess the situation without going bankrupt... only you know how deep of a a hole you can dig yourself into without the income... and from first hand experience..the saving account goes fast !! But we all know we cant quantify the music which makes it such a tough call... And providing that you can get a solid commitment from the rest of the band mates.. it would suck heavily if you quit the job and two months later the guitar player bailed. You're young and have the goods a get a new job thats the least of the problem, the future wife has to understand this and be agreeable as well... and if she is not thats the tough call... Who knows ..one of the songs might hit and the $$ might roll in heavy.... but you wont know unless your're out there.... I would go out on the limb and take a chance ... crunch out those numbers.... www.danielprine.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddiePlaysBass Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Getz, I'm only 24 but I would probably not take this opportunity anyway. To me music is a hobby, and you know as "fun" as it all sounds, being away from home night after night, never seeing your significant other, miss your kids, not get to see them grow up, spend day after day in a tour bus (or a small, stinky van) on the road watching porn and being bored, visiting city after city and country after country and only ever seeing the local Holiday Inn ... not to mention a lousy pay? Yeah, who wouldn't jump on a chance like that? "I'm a work in progress." Micky Barnes The Ross Brown Shirt World Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted October 13, 2005 Author Share Posted October 13, 2005 I think another factor is current, general satisfaction with life. I guess I would be less likely to do such a thing because, overall, I am a rather happy fellow. If I was in this situation, the question for me is more; would I be happier making my living through music or would I be happier with the status quo? My answer, if I had to guess, would be status quo. Of course, I would never know that unless I was in the situation and actually attempted to go on the road. Interesting, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pernax Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Originally posted by getz76: I think another factor is current, general satisfaction with life.I think so too, and this is present in at least my answer. (up to 200 characters) You may use UBBCode in your signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraub Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Interesting "hypothetical" there, Maury. Upon some reflection, I would probably be inclined to skip the tour, and try to suck up as much of the publishing as possible. Anything is more than nothing, especially if there's no real work to get it. And touring is work. But then, I have already toured a couple of times, and have already experienced all that that can offer. p.s. it's overrated IMO. Plus, I am very married (and happy with that), and attempting to start a business at the moment, and hardly have the time to eat (and post here ), let alone tour. But that's me. Once I realized I'd rather be a composer than a rock star, it all became clear. Wishing that Third Henry guy luck and clarity... Peace, wraub I'm a lot more like I am now than I was when I got here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Now if I was offered a 20 million dollar, 5 record deal... I'd be on the road before my computer keyboard could cool off... Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butcherNburn Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 No matter what you do, you'll probably end up regretting your decision at times. - Ah, enGAGement.... I know that story and it's not all bad. How much does she support your touring? Can she support you financially? Can you get on her insurance? When you have kids, that will be a serious anchor, this may be your time (still). A few things to consider on that front. - Do you really want to be a road warrior? Not everybody is cut out for it. You may be content playing Washington St. 3-4 times a month, a weekend warrior. You can still be happy, without major musical success. - The band. What do they think? Would they go on without you? Would you give them your blessing? You can still get some $ on your music. - Ok, the tour is over... Things went well but you need to get back to the business world. How re-employable are you? I just spent 13 month's without a steady job. If this is what you always dreamed of? If your logical mind says yes, go for it. It may be really hard but you won't be kicking yourself for the next 60 years. If doing this is not realistic for you, accept that in your mind and you'll be ok with yourself. You'll always have music to satisfy your soul, that's not going anywhere. "Everything that's good in your life happens by accident. Everthing you plan in life is sh**." -Lemmy in "Everthing Louder Than Everything Else" If you think my playing is bad, you should hear me sing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted October 13, 2005 Author Share Posted October 13, 2005 Butcher, I find it hard to read you post without hearing it narratived in my head by Bender from Futurama. Interesting side-effect from the avatar, no? Good points, nonetheless. Me, personally, I'm very comfortable in what my decision would be. If this situation really happened for me, I think my better half would be supportive if I really wanted to do it and if I wasn't happy with my current employment. However, that's not my sitation. I am more than satisfied with my current musical hobby. I feel no need to make cash from it. That said, I wouldn't mind playing Roseland Ballroom and Irving Plaza. I would more than support my bands decision, to the point where I would help them find a bass player. For me, I'm luckily very employable in my day gig. I fend off many recruiters on a weekly basis. And no, being a rock-star isn't really my dream. I agree with wraub, I like the creative aspect of music, and I like playing out. I haven't played in a cover band in years, partially because I don't find it as enjoyable. And wraub, if I was in this situation, I would definitely work to retain publishing rights (easy enough to do if you co-write) and, if I were to record with the band, I would try to work out some portion of the royalties in lieu of being paid for the session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnb Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Late 20's??? Your still a kid. You are supposed to do stupid stuff like quit you day gig and chase the dream. But if you are content/happy doing what you are already doing, I can see your reluctance to mess up a perfectly good formula. I guess the final determining factor is, what do you really think of Third Henry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I have never been a big risk taker - even when I was younger. I would stay home. Maybe with some regrets, but I tend to play it safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimb213 Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 hmmm... being engaged, i would definitely do it! the future wife can keep the bills paid while i'm on the road! I bet that's one of the biggest hinderances for people... who's gonna pay rent/motgage/utilities while you're travelling cross-country in a van with a buncha stinky guys? In this case, the future wife! I'm assuming no kids in the situation, though. If there were kids, I wouldn't leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurmhole78 Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 This is a good reason for the younger people out there to avoid student loans at all costs. I'm quite confident that I could support myself just fine with music alone if I didn't have that pesky debt payment every month. If I needed to vacate my apartment and put stuff in storage and crash on couches or whatever for the sake of living off music I would do it. I would not however trash my mother's credit and generally ruin her life. Never follow children, animals or Hare Krishnas!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57pbass Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Originally posted by wurmhole78: This is a good reason for the younger people out there to avoid student loans at all costs. I agree with this logic... but a college education is very important and some folks have no choice but to take a loan.... I would avoid the frivolous expenses that have buried people in credit card debt.. www.danielprine.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklab Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I would explore the options with your employer and see what you can do to that end. In some of my past jobs, some guys were actually allowed to take an unpaid leave of absence in order to go on tour. Having that type of flexibility is key to being able to do something like this or not. In my line of work I have the benefit of being able to work freelance if I so desired. There's enough of a need for people with my work skills that there are always freelance opportunities popping up. This may or may not be an option for you in your field. But that could be a signifigant consideration for you if you need to supplement your musical income. Another thing to consider is this: do you have enough savings to make a life change like this and not be totally on the ropes until you get your financial feet back under you? You can also consider something like this. What about working with a smaller indie label that knows that you guys work jobs in addition to promoting your music career? There are plenty of indie labels out there with decent distribution where you can work the situation like this. Finally there's the issue of regret. Would you regret not doing this later on in your life? I don't know if I could live with the "could have, should have" situation, but that's me. Obligatory Social Media Link "My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I've thought about the whole regret thing before. I think I would regret not taking up the opportunity to tour, but I would regret not eating even more... Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred TBP Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Maury, I had to think deep about this one because I've been there at two points of my life, so I'm going to break this down for you. The day job, the risks, that isn't the problem. Anyone who really wanted to take the risk would do it and find a way to get back to work if it all fell apart, as long as you stayed "clean and sober" (no arrest record, no AA/NA intervention) or go back to school, or start another career. Many musicians have done that over the past half-century and many more will continue to do so. If you're talented at something, you'll always find work. The co-writing is a bigger problem. If you retain your rights, or are careful to license your rights with good legal advice, you'll wind up with something in the bank. I know a bass player who co-wrote "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy" (yeah, that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Can't you take a leave of absence from work? Many companies provide the ability to take an extended leave of absence and then allow you to resume your duties once you're back. It may even be possible to take multiple leaves of absence or find a job that's more flexible. It all depends on your priorities. Right now I'm focusing on my day job ($$$ are important), but who knows what may come along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Well, I guess this thread explains why it is so rare for big recording companies to even offer contracts to artists past their early 20s. Being an older married type myself, the fiancee seems to be a key issue to me. You guys have already touched on this, but let me just put it another way. Is she another Valerie Bertinelli? Seriously, though. Being married to a celebrity can have unique challenges. Yet it seems odd that star/star marriages are often the shortest lived, when both partners should be keenly aware of the difficulties their careers will impose on their relationship. (Might this have something to do with a certain amount of self-centeredness instead?) I think that traits that help you go from zero to giant success in music (and perhaps business in general, for that matter) are detrimental to relationships. "Sorry honey, I can't see a movie with you tonight (or any night) because I have to spend every waking hour writing songs, practicing, rehearsing, recording, promoting, gigging, etc." Yeah, tell a girl that she'll always come in 2nd to anything and she won't stick around for very long. So, the biggest risk in my eyes is losing the fiancee. Maybe not today, nor next month, but as you spend less and less time together eventually something will have to give. Loneliness is often a powerful motivator. I'm probably well into the mid-life crisis stage of my life, getting retrospective and asking "what if?" to a lot of past decisions. From where I sit, I'd be inclined to advise the younger man to take a chance; "you can't win if you don't play". OTOH, I've been blessed to never feel the emptiness of being alone; a void that cannot be filled by mere success. (Think Britney.) There may be other fish in the sea, but I have friends that are still single (never married) and it seems the older they get, the harder it is for them to meet someone special. Which is the less painful road to travel for you? Giving up on your dreams or possibly losing the love of your life? "Every road has its beginning And every road leads to somewhere Choose your way with careful consideration Or you may find a destitute destination" --RicBassGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57pbass Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I am in my mid 40's no and am a true weekend warrior.. playing covers in the bars and clubs and working on an original project with our first show upcoming 11/16. But its all great and I enjoy myself... I dont think I could take a chance in a Third Henry type scenario due to financial / relationship constraints and the thought of driving around in a van with a bunch of smelly guys does not appeal to me at all.... but if I had a decent paying tour type situation offered to me with guaranteed money and decent accomodations I would consider leaving my job to do it.. but would have to get the OK from my better half.. ..she would be the deciding factor and if she said no I would decline the offer...my relationship is much more important than a tour..plus I play all the time locally.. But I would like to go on a real tour once before I leave this planet.. www.danielprine.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted October 13, 2005 Author Share Posted October 13, 2005 Thanks again for everyone's participation. If I were in this situation, I would most likely be able to either take a leave of abscense, but I'm not sure I would need to. I could easily find work in my profession. If I were in this situation, I would also have enough savings to last a substantial amount of time without having to work. However, what is interesting is that I doubt I would want to do it. Honestly, while at age 18 or 22 or 23, I would love to hop in a van and drive from crappy gig to crappy gig pushing an independent release, I would not likely enjoy that now. Also, I wouldn't want to be away from my family and friends on the road. I didn't like living out of a suitcase for a straight job, and I was living the jet-set life and flying first class 50% of the time and staying at very nice hotels (Four Seasons, Westins, etc) and eating $200/person dinners and drinking expensive wine most of the time I was on the road. Yes, consulting work can be dull, but so can playing a crappy gig. Would I consider doing something for a month, maybe two, if I was offered something? Maybe, but it would have to be better than being stuck in a minivan driving from gig to gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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