DONUTHOLE Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Even the best guitars buzz! Its wood and nickel! Its physics! Work with it! Gaahhhh! I have spent alot of money on my basses. They are as close to perfect as I can hope to find. They buzz when I wail on 'em! Get a grip....er....Loosen it! Some players just have to realize that if they look really hard for something to complain about in an "off the rack" guitar or bass the first few minutes that they play it, they're gonna find it! I wish I had a nickel for everytime I set up a guitar "nice and low" for a player only to have them send or bring it back complaining about fretbuzz. If you want low action, ease up a bit. You don't have to hammer on the strings, or touch the string to the wood on the fretboard. Its a give and take thing, and you have to work with what you have to an extent. If you buy a bass for $225, chances are good that you'll have to put another $40 or so into the frets. $225 is alot of money to spend, but its just the way it is. Its a good deal. It looks like a Stingray! It sounds like a Stingray! But, it's not a Stingray! It's just the way it is, right or wrong! Even if it was a Stingray, it would buzz when you really slammed it, right? Now, if it has neck issues, or some high frets, I get it. I send the new ones back home. But people just have to understand that you get what you give. "Perfect, super low action with no buzzing" is this mythical place that some folks are sure they have to be without looking at the way that they are playing. Instead they blame me for selling them an imperfect $200 guitar. What they don't realize is that even if they spend a buttload of cash, they still have to practice their touch. Playing hard has its tonal advantages for some. If they want to take that road, they need higher action or to live with the buzz. Give the string room to do its thing. When my buddy plays my basses, it sounds like a jackhammer. When I play his, I feel like I'm running under water. We know the deal. Not to mention the fact that over half of the guitars I'm setting up are bounced across the country in a really hot or cold (or both)tin box with wheels. I tell people this but some still insist on a "micro action" set up upon recieving it. Not possible. No "rockstar" without dues. Any thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uber Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 lol, i think maybe you drink too much coffee ! craig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONUTHOLE Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Wrong! Mountain Dew. It does really come off more severe than I actually feel. I'm a sarcastic guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geoff Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 You speak the absolute truth, My Man. Geoff "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music The Geoff - blame Caevan!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloclo Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 it's a balancing act. they've got to deal with that. don't worry, i would be as pissed as you are. Marvelas Something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc_dup1 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Your clients should be more philosophical about the inescapable imperfections of your basses. It's physics. You should be more philosophical about the inescapable imperfections of your clients. It's biology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Here's a quote from the illustrious Jeff Bollbach that you'll probably identify with, DONUTHOLE... Years ago I had a client who had wrist problems and was after me to get really low action on his bass - especially on his E string. I went to hell and back and he still kept rattling that string. I was on the phone with Ian often about that. One thing he told me really helped. He said to put a white dot on the string and play it. This way you could see the cross section of the vibration. Very interesting. If you played arco, the cross section was an even ellipse, parallel to the bow stroke. Of course that wasn't where the noise was. Pizzicato was a different story. Plucked, the cross section formed a kind of weird T with a spike down into the board. It is so clearly visible that it can be measured. When I realized how large the spike was, I saw that I was on a wild goose chase. There were 5/32in. under the string and that was exactly the size of the spike. No can do. That really gave me a method to know exactly how little clearance is possible under the string at any point. It all varies with the type of strings and the style of the player. A bassist using Spirocores trying to play loud in an unamplified setting cannot have an action that is "like buttah". But put on a set of Obligatos and get subtle and technical - get out your feeler gauges! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloclo Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by bc: Your clients should be more philosophical about the inescapable imperfections of your basses. It's physics. You should be more philosophical about the inescapable imperfections of your clients. It's biology. hmm, well put bc! Marvelas Something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Often people think they want low action. Really low. Combine that with the type of relief used, and it's - well - it's a set-up. I've learned to judge an instrument by it's feel if the action/etc. is close to what I like. If it's not close, then I don't form an opinion. Once again, we're talking about the inaccuracy of language. I asked Mike Kinal to give me medium action on the bass. It arrived with a flat neck (no relief) and the action was too low for me. I couldn't blame Mike - I didn't send him measurements. So I (slowly) made adjustments until it was OK. Hey D - if it's a semi-regular customer, ask them to bring in their own axe for comparison. That way, everyone learns something. Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Hey Donut, Was the straw that broke the camel's back a purchase by a Finlander? ATM http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/atmofmn/Bass/DeepThoughtsBS.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by DONUTHOLE: Wrong! Mountain Dew. It does really come off more severe than I actually feel. I'm a sarcastic guy. A perpetual buzz, it seems. My Mountain Dew story: I drank all the Mountain Dew I've ever had on one day in about 1967. My mom had given me $1.00 for summer camp expenses, and I had another $.30. In those days, sodas cost a dime. I didn't use any of the money until the Saturday morning of camp, a few hours before the bus ride home. And I drank the brand new soda, "Mountain Dew." And I liked it. Drank another. And another. 13 Mountain Dews later, I was extremely tired of it, and hyped up and ill. And I had to climb on a bus and ride from Oklahoma to Dallas. And I never needed another for the rest of my life. But last year, I told my orchestra if they got a Division 1 at contest, I would drink a Mountain Dew. I did that, and saved the can. UgggH! A flood of old, sick memories later I realized I might be better off cutting my moustache for a bet with the students. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davio Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 You should have them come in to try out the new setup in-shop. Offer them an in-shop guarantee so that if they don't like it they can give it back to you before they leave...otherwise it's an all new setup with new specs and a new fee when they come back. My 2 scents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONUT Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Yep. Gotta be carefull with that stuff. Actually, I have really cut down on the soda. Its so bad for you. I've been drinking tons of green iced tea. A can of redbull before gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 It's interesting that nearly everyone who brings in a guitar for setup says, "make it as low as possible without buzzing." But of course to get the string height that way has not as much to do with feeler gauges or measurements as it has to do with the player's touch. Charge them for a setup, use the time to teach them how to do it and hopefully you'll never have to see them again. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davio Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 But Jeremy, is that good or bad for business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 I've never met a competent repair person who was lacking for work. Usually they are overloaded. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONUT Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Its great when people bring something in and want to spend the time. People that want a guitar to come out of its case playing perfectly after being shipped across the contry are dreaming. Its worth it for them to take it to a tech and spend the money, or learn to do it themselves. I'm just going to have to be more insistant about this. I just got yet another email from a guy who insists on it. So if I set it up super low, its likely to come out of the case with the strings laying on the frets. I should send him this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruiser_dup2 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 I've never understood why people pay someone else to set up an instrument, when all they need is a truss rod tweak and maybe intonation. It takes a couple of tools and there are easy to follow instructions in books and all over the web. You look at it, make a couple of measurements with your fingers, play it a bit, and tweak to taste-- your own taste, not the tech's taste. Why would I want to pay someone to do that? Bruiser Bruiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robitaille59 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 It must be pretty frustrating working on people's guitars for a living. I would rant too. I used to pay $28.50 twice a year for a setup until a guy taught me how to do it myself. He had a set of allen wrenches in his case and would tweak his intonation quite regularly. Now I'm constanly messing with the intonation, truss rod, string gagues, alternate tunings, capos etc. Personally most of the buzz I get while playing is actually from my left had technique. When you don't fret the note directly behind the fret, sometimes it will buzz. So a lot of it is in the player technique. This is not unlike my occupation of fixing computers. A lot of the problems I get called in on are from the user's mistake, not the system. Oh well.....Nice rant. Rob Robitaille Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred TBP Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 This discussion reminded me of the book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", a book which blends elementary Buddhist concepts with good advice on maintaining the things you own. That and a lifelong principle my parents passed on to me in my youth: what's the sense of owning something if you can't take care of it? And unless you're totally incompetent with hand tools, each and every one of you can take care of your own setup and intonation. A great metaphor that applies to many things in life. To my surprise, the book is online, if you wish to READ IT sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraub Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Bruiser: I've never understood why people pay someone else to set up an instrument, when all they need is a truss rod tweak and maybe intonation. It takes a couple of tools and there are easy to follow instructions in books and all over the web. You look at it, make a couple of measurements with your fingers, play it a bit, and tweak to taste-- your own taste, not the tech's taste. Why would I want to pay someone to do that? Yup. Truth and truthitude. Peace, wraub I'm a lot more like I am now than I was when I got here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 Originally posted by Bruiser: I've never understood why people pay someone else to set up an instrument, when all they need is a truss rod tweak and maybe intonation. It takes a couple of tools and there are easy to follow instructions in books and all over the web. You look at it, make a couple of measurements with your fingers, play it a bit, and tweak to taste-- your own taste, not the tech's taste. Why would I want to pay someone to do that? Bruiser Bruiser You and me both, man. An electric bass is not rocket science to set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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