Help me figure this situation out!

[mound]

What would you all do in this situation? I'll try to recap this w/o rambling too much! I've been a bass player for 10 years or so. Since my last band broke up (an instrumental fusion trio), I was doing a lot of jamming bass/drums with this drummer friend, totally informal and lots of fun. I started studying classical piano over a year ago with a teacher and have been continuing jazz theory study on my own.) I'm not in this as a career, I'm doing it because I'm obsessed with learning. The drummer is in a pop/rock/groove band (all 3 chord songs in 4/4, simple cheezy but fun pop music with a hint of groove/improv "jamband") They lost their keyboard player, who didn't contribute much in the first place. Drummer asks me if I want to play keys with them (even though I've never played keys in a band before.) Thinking it'd be a good way to get some experience playing keys in a rock band, I decide sure, what the heck. Several months have gone by, a few gigs, some good, some not so good. There are several problems I have though.

 

1. The band is terribly unfocused.

 

2. The bass player lately has developed some kind of delusion of grandeur, and can't communicate. He's really not very good, about as good as one would get after 5 years of never practicing. He never trainwrecks or anything on stage, which is always good, he does lock with the drummer but he always over-plays. He doesn't practice at all, and says that until the rest of the band is blowing him away on stage (?@#$) he's not going to practice. "and what is there to practice anyway?" He gets defensive when anybody mentions to him that he should practice or get a teacher and has said that he simply doesn't have time. (which is valid, he has alot going on in his life.) He also believes the only reason to do this is to "get signed and play big stages", which, quite honestly with this band is laughable.

 

3. I'll admit I do have a bit more homework to put in to feel rock-solid on their tunes, and they are still getting used to a different sound, but my classical and jazz studies are my priorities. I practice 3 hours a day, but it's classical and jazz that I'm practicing. Which isn't really applying to this simple rock music, they want me to keep it very simple, and so I try to. They say "don't be a pianist, be a keyboardist" which I guess makes sense in context.

 

4. I think the name of the band is stupid, but they all believe that the name is great, and supposedly everybody tells them that (I've never heard such comments but whatever..) They believe that it is established, and that there is a fan base other than their immediate circle of friends (none of those beliefs is really true, but I don't want to hurt their feelings by pointing that out, as it really doesn't matter as long as they're having fun) and afterall, I still don't feel it's "my band" but they do feel that I'm every bit as much a part as them.

 

5. Every practice session forces me to subject my pink lungs to at least a pack's worth of second hand cigarette smoke, which leave me sick to my stomach with pain in my lungs when I get home, having to strip my clothes and throw them in the basement and leave my gear on the porch so my entire house doesn't stink..But who am I to tell 4 other guys not to chain smoke during practice? (in the unventilated practice space)

 

6. Everybody in the band is convinced that sooner than later, since I have much more experience in bands (first as a bass player) and tons more knowledge of theory than them, that I am going to be taking them in all new great directions with my keyboard playing as it develops. This may or may not materialize to be truth, but we'll see.

 

7. Lately, half the band doesn't show up to practices. The bass player being one of them, the lead guitar being the other, "car trouble" (which I guess has been an ongoing excuse for the entire 5 year existence of the band). As the newcomer, why should I be interested if they aren't?

 

Anyway - I'm finding more to be annoyed at with this whole situation than I am getting from it, but I know there will be hurt feelings if I bail on them. The drummer and the other guitar player (he's also the talented vocals) who are dedicated lately are also talking about this being a bad situation, but "the three of us could go on w/o them if we need to" The drummer even wants me to bring my bass and keys to the next practice, as he's pretty sure the bass player and guitar player won't show again. I'm not sure I even want to do anything with these two guys anymore as honestly it's distracting from my classical and jazz.

 

So, perfectly nice people, no personal issues with them at all. Musically, I am getting absolutely nothing from this situation except for a bit of practice rocking out my triad inversions and playing with various electric piano tones.. I don't want to let anybody down as they seem to be hoping that I'll be some kind of saving grace.. (well, the two who seem to care do at least.)

 

Geeze.. reading this back I think I've answered my own question but I'm curious of thoughts anyway.

 

(ps. I've cross posted this in keyboard and bass forum)

 

thanks!

[Fred TBP]

It comes to two questions:

 

1. Are you the band leader or just a player? If you're a player, do that or quit and start your own band. You're not getting through to the others anyway unless you decide to lead.

 

2. Do you want to play keyboards or bass? There's enough work out there for both, and if learning is your priority, the time you spend learning is an investment in your future. The more you learn, the better you'll play and you'll wind up looking for better bands.

 

Friendship has nothing to do with this. If they're your friends, they can look beyond this and stay friends. If not, are they really your friends?

 

You can figure out the rest from here...

[haggard]

Oh, my god, that sucks! And in more than one point it is very similar to what I am living right now. I am a more experienced bass player than the band I play in now, they chain-smoke constantly, the music is unstructured and the arrangements senseless and directionless, yet the people have a great idea of their compositions. You take off and then land again, and again take off, and so on... And so, the music is very complicated harmonically, but the guys have no idea of harmony, so you can imagine... They play only by ear, don't even know the notes on the instrument. This fact, plus the unstructuring, makes it difficult to flow and even to remember when playing, because it stagnates and you have to push it constantly. Disgusting...

 

But the worst problem is the communication: the guitar-player and drummer are great friends since more than 10 years ago and they talk with each other during playing, but do not communicate with the rest. Suddenly during playing you feel something is simply dense, the guys are upset, but they don't express it. Strange, I thought... The rhythm guitar does never say a word, the singer is very nice and atractive and always supports the first mentioned duo. I had a coffee 1 week ago with the former bassist, who explained me he left because he had problems with a strange form of communication (this sudden heavy feeling without words and just signs between the lead-guitar and drummer). I thought first there was something wrong with me.

I am starting to rehearse with a more experienced band, without percussions or drums. It is enjoyable!

I believe a musician must never play with less experienced people. If posible one should always join more experienced people and learn from them. Less experienced guys always feel threatened, or jealous, or something negative. ONE less experienced guy may be willing to learn, but a band much less experienced than you is like a ball-and-chain, you'll never take-off unless you are the leader and willing to take them somewhere. If that is not the case I'd rather fly awy... Specially because I aspire to compose and learning all this stuff will take me nowhere, and then probably the guys won't want to change their musical direction. We've already talked about it, but it is difficult to develop something with people who are unable to find G on the guitar, don't mention follow a chord progressions...

[g.]

See some of my Sucky Band Should Die rants here ; }... It's just the nature of the beast sometimes. Pull up stakes, force some resolutions, or... Really, we know the answers to get solutions usually... but inventing venting phrase turns is just so FUN ; }

[mound]

yeah, I hear ya guys.. I mean the smoke thing, that's just a physically irritating thing.. these guys, they are all 10+ years my senior, all known each other for 20 some odd years.. All started playing a couple years ago.. They are more experienced than I am as a keyboard player in a rock band, though my piano skills, especially the classical stuff and theory I know is waaaay beyond anything they could do.. but that's an entirely different context.. As a bass player it's a whole different story, I am far more experienced than them, but I am not their bassist, nor am I the leader in any way. Though they seem to have some weird idea that I am going to become that for them.

 

haggard - my guys have no musical education either, takes 5 minutes for somebody to determine what kind of chord he is playing.. But they don't have any illusions otherwise, they keep the songs well structured, simple, 3 chord pop tunes with a sprinkling of "jamband" style improv.

 

I just gotta speak up and voice my concerns with them..

[way2fat]

The smoking would be a deal breaker for me.

[lug]

Originally posted by mound:

2. The bass player lately has developed some kind of delusion of grandeur, and can't communicate. He's really not very good, about as good as one would get after 5 years of never practicing. He never trainwrecks or anything on stage, which is always good, he does lock with the drummer but he always over-plays. He doesn't practice at all, and says that until the rest of the band is blowing him away on stage (?@#$) he's not going to practice. "and what is there to practice anyway?" He gets defensive when anybody mentions to him that he should practice or get a teacher and has said that he simply doesn't have time. (which is valid, he has alot going on in his life.) He also believes the only reason to do this is to "get signed and play big stages", which, quite honestly with this band is laughable.

 

thanks!

Please. Please don't post our band problems on this forum, it's embarrassing.

[mound]

hah!

[Big Red 67]

Run away, run away! Those are the bands that play cheese.

[jeremy c]

About once a week someone posts about the horrible band they are in wanting to know if they should quit.

 

As ChrisOfDoom so wisely said,

 

Is it really a question if there is only one possible answer?

[g.]

As a confirmed band quitter, I can say you are not right for every occasion, Jeremy ; }

 

Sometimes the pickin's are slim for people who not only can play but also have the right chemistry. And then there is finding people with complimentary, decently open schedules so that gigs can be freely booked, and even - gasp - rehearsals scheduled ... Yeah, I've heard the rehearsal spiel of hired gun types before, and sometimes I prefer this approach for simplicity in MY life.

 

But if one wants stop-on-a-dime specialized DEEP arrangements instead of just play-the-main-riffs-and-the-basic-changes by inspired and/or educated and listening players, they need to work on that part of it. Some of us want a band with a real identity to truly be a part of and not just a bunch of competent-or-better hired guns who can wing it.

 

So this stuff has to be weighed. If you want to leave it's good to have somewhere to go, or be looking for a vacation. Otherwise, I guess it can be like a marriage; it helps to talk things out if you can with the partner you've already got. I think that's called "working at the relationship" ; }

[dcr]

In your whole post, I don't see one reason to stay. Meanwhile, your reasons for leaving are overdetermined.

 

So leave.

[Mudcat]

The great jazz guitatrist Charlie Christian said he had three reasons to play his instrument (paraphrased):

 

1) To make some money.

 

2) To practice and get better on the instrument.

 

3) To enjoy himself.

 

I don't think the situation you describe fits any of these categories.

 

Seems like it's time to move on.

[mound]

Thank you all for your insights.. The decision is pretty clear, it's time to go.

 

dcr wrote:

Meanwhile, your reasons for leaving are overdetermined

overdetermined? do you mean overwhelming or do you mean that I'm thinking about this too much/over analyzing? (or both?)

 

-Paul

[g.]

It is clear we live in the Age of Divorce ; }

[badgerbass]

I think you HAVE answered your own question: it is not worth it to stay. You say you don't want to bail on them, so here' what I'd do:

 

Tell them the situation, you want to do other things, no hard feelings, etc. Give them 1 month's notice to find someone else. Tell them you will give just as much to the band as you have been doing for that month, but after that, you're gone. Stick to it. No waffling. Clean break.

 

If you stick to your principles and are open and honest with everyone, they can't fault you. They may not like it and might be pissed at you, but you've done the right thing. Basically, you don't fit in. Been there, done that.

 

Guy

[73 P Bass]

Originally posted by mound:

What would you all do in this situation? I'll try to recap this w/o rambling too much!

Sorry mound, but that boat has sailed!

[dcr]

By "overdetermined," I mean that you have more than one reason that seems like a conclusive reason to leave. So, yeah, overwhelming.

 

AND you're overthinking it.

 

Joining a band is not a sacrament.

[g.]

I disagree. One of the great paens of all times is posed thusly: SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO. Much reasoning and soul searching takes place over several minutes, and you cannot convince me that anyone in The Clash was ever thinking about Skimpy French Underwear while pouring their hearts out. No indeed.

[73 P Bass]

Originally posted by   :

and you cannot convince me that anyone in The Clash was ever thinking about Skimpy French Underwear while pouring their hearts out. No indeed.

Are you sure? Paul Simonon? The coif, the leather pants? Don't be fooled! I went to art school; yeah we seem all sensitive and introspective, but we think about French underwear just as much as anyone else!

[swayingtree]

If you have any reason (which I couldn't see) to stay in this band I think you should meet with them and list all the things that frustrate you (in a polite way). If they really want you to be the leader then they will change what they are doing. I smoke but I just go outside. There's no reason why they can't do that either. Personally, I don't think it is worth it at all to play with people who you don't get along well with. Maybe you should play bass again!

[dhurstlmt]

You should quit everything else and devote 100% of you time to this band. They are counting on you. There lack of concern is just a mask for their need for you. They obviously have your best interests in mind and are doing everything they can to have you stay. Catch my drift?

[swayingtree]

Originally posted by dhurstlmt:

You should quit everything else and devote 100% of you time to this band. They are counting on you. There lack of concern is just a mask for their need for you. They obviously have your best interests in mind and are doing everything they can to have you stay. Catch my drift?

Are you kidding?

[mound]

Are you kidding?

I think he was!

 

if these guys went outside to smoke, they would never be inside practicing.

 

Anyway - had a heart to heart, it's done, I'm no longer in the band.. (somehow I feel the rest of the band is soon to topple anyway.)

 

No hard feelings thankfully.

[dcr]

Sounds like a winner.

 

So, what's your next move?

[mound]

not sure.. probably nothing for a while.. like I said, I don't pay the bills with it.. going to keep studying jazz and classical for the time being.