Behringer EP-2500 Power Amp

[xvincex]

Is it me or this amp is NOT expensive for what it pumps out? (2400w @ bridged)

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23788&item=3744651037&rd=1

[a boy named sue]

Behringer stuff is very inexpensive. Some also say that it is very cheap (I hope you get the drift of that in English).

 

There are some accusations that Behringer steal other peoples ideas. I think they steal products, in this case a big rack mounted power amp, but still do their own development -- to slash the cost of manufacture. Others disagree and point to huge similarities between Behringer products and the stuff they rip off. Generally though, they rip off stuff that is so well designed that nobody would want to change it anyway.

 

Try a search on this topic.

 

FWIW, I have a behringer EQ and compressor that I only use for fiddling, no dramas with either of them -- my Sans-amp gives a "better" tone and I don't look like an idiot with a huge rack of gear whilst playing simple bass lines

[Basshappi]

I've been using an EP-1500 (the 2500's little brother) for over a year and it is working just fine. They seem to be well built and affordable. I have a few other pieces of Behringer gear (all PA stuff) and none of it has let me down yet.

 

Cheers

[xvincex]

Hehe yeah I got a QSC PLX1602 which is 1600 watts bridged that I got for $365 used, and I was kinda psyched when I saw this Behringer E2500 brand new for $20 less....

[Fred TBP]

So far all the Behringer gear I own is a UB502 mixer, and I remember others warning me away from them and advising me to spend more on Mackies and Allen & Heath units. The UB502 was cheap and still does the job for me in live work.

 

As for ripping off amp designs, IIRC, Leo Fender borrowed liberally from a few of his competitors when he designed his first amps. It's all in the quality of the final product and whether or not there's a valid patent out there being stolen.

[tarkus]

Originally posted by Fred the bass player:

 

As for ripping off amp designs, IIRC, Leo Fender borrowed liberally from a few of his competitors when he designed his first amps. It's all in the quality of the final product and whether or not there's a valid patent out there being stolen.

Not to mention of few of our other favorite low budget instruments, effects and amps!

 

PS: Fred, The signature and avatar still makes me crack up! Cheers!

[moot]

I've never heard anybody that owns Behringer stuff say anything bad about it.

 

I took my son to a "music in the park" and the bassist used a Peavey bass, an old Peavey cab and a Behringer MagaBass 300 watt head. It sounded Good! Even outside it was full and rich and plenty loud. I love the old VU meter thing too.

[wraub]

One of the other bass players in my apt. building has a Behringer Mega Bass head as a backup for his Aguilar rig. Apparently, the First one arrived non-functioning, but the replacement suits him just fine, he says he's quite pleased.

 

To some extent, I think Behringer is the latest in a line of "budget", economy or alternative label gear that gets a bad rap from some. I remember when it was Peavey gear that was crap, or Carvin, or all Japanese guitars, or Hondo II... Ok, maybe Hondo II guitars deserved their crud cred.

But the point is that there has to be a little guy for the big guys to besmirch, and there has to be a little guy nipping at their heels, and the little guy usually gets no respect.

Especially when they do "borrow" a lot from the big guys.

 

Try their gear for yourself, weigh the philosophical pros and cons for yourself, and

put your money down.

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[getz out]

I own Behringer gear. I like it, it's well made and sounds good.

 

I have some issues with their practices. They are lazy; everyone in the industry steals designs, but Behringer is the only manufacturer that doesn't bother to change the casing. See this example:

 

Ebtech's Swizz Army Cable Tester:

 

http://media.zzounds.com/media/fit,100by150/quality,65/EBTSWIZZCT.jpg

 

Behringer's CT100 Cable Tester:

 

http://www.behringer.com/CT100/CT100_medium.jpg

 

Lazy with no shame...

[rumpelstiltskin.]

since most of you are not engineers, i'd like to let you all in on the generous difference between designing a circuit and building one.

 

for example, if you realize how the "fender circuit" for tone controls works, you can draw it out in a schematic capture program, and then design the PCB and figure out a way to fit it in a box. you also have to make decisions on user interface and cosmetics. in the end, though the idea behind the product may be a borrowed circuit, there is still a considerable effort by yourself to create a product out of this circuit.

 

however, if you take not only the circuit, but also the PCB designs, mechanical designs, and user interface, you're more than just "borrowing like old uncle leo did". you're removing 90% of the work involved in bringing a product to market. some may call that clever; others call it dishonest.

 

you may be fine with such practices, and if so, go ahead and buy. plenty of people shop at walmart and best buy, too. personally, i choose differently. i'm not just buying a power amp, i'm buying into the company who makes it. and when my needs evolve, i want to know that there will be new products that sound better, weigh less, and are easier to use that the previous generation. i know that if QSC stays in business, they'll continue to innovate. i don't have the same confidence in behringer.

 

robb.

[Fred TBP]

IMHO, if Johann Gutenberg (sp?) took out patents on his printing press, we'd still be using parchment and ink.

 

It's hard to invent or innovate without starting with someone else's work, but with all the patent suits going on around the world the only folks I see benefitting, besides the offending party, are the patent attorneys. And since some of the greater offenders are governments and military entities, how are things really going to change?

 

Not that I'm against the patent process, nor do I claim to understand patent rights and the law ("dammit, Jim, I'm a bass player, not a ... ") but it needs to be simplified and better defined (an oxymoron? ) if it's going to change things. Meanwhile, progress and patent infringement will proceed with business as usual.

 

And if the Behringer clone is a better deal for me, heck, I'm gonna buy it!

[tarkus]

Remember back in the 70's - Ibanez was sued by Gibson for 'ripping off the Les Paul design' or something to that extent. My friend had one of the 'infringing' Ibanez PF guitars - it really did't resemble a Les Paul all that much. HondoII copied the Paul a bit closer in appearance, IMHO - (tips hat to Wraub)

 

I agree that the aforementioned 'swiss army box' was a rip-off on Behrenger's part; they did however improve the contacts with metal rather than questionable plasti-metal - jacks, if I'm viewing this properly.

 

I'm happy to see that the gear that was reliable and expensive yesterday can be repackaged an offerred at a substantially lower price than what we're used to. I remeber Fostex 4-tracks selling for $750 in 1985 - Now you can go digital for the same price. Even the digital stuff that was pinnacle 5 years ago is cheaper with the same reliability you expected at its unveiling.

 

Would you advise a person to save-up for the $$state of the art$$ or buy the generic equivilant in the interest of getting started?

 

It depends. I'm caught in this dilemma at present. Enough dough for a Keyboard, but not enough dough to blast! And I'm not using the Ampeg as a Keyamp! So, do I get the Triton Extreme and run it through an in-expensive amp only to later find the need to upgrade to Brand Name? Or do I wait until I can afford the 'whole enchilada'?

 

I think Behrenger trys to offer the 'get started' alternative. But there is a latent fear that 'you get what you pay for' as we've all seen before.

It's promising to hear other Lowdowners give honest opinions and experiences with said company.

 

We're musicians; most of us can barely scrape enough dough together for guitar, bass, or keyboard etc, without working day jobs to satify our G.A.S. (Gear Aquisition Syndrome: see Keyboard Corner). Most of us live in cramped apartments or have dedicated small areas for our 'collections'. When is it too much? When you fiancee or wife starts demanding to use the amps as flower stands!

 

I think it was Duke Ellington or Herb Alpert that asked: "How do you make a Million dollars playing jazz? answer: First, you start out with two million." (PM me if you don't get the joke)

[getz out]

Originally posted by tarkus:

Would you advise a person to save-up for the $$state of the art$$ or buy the generic equivilant in the interest of getting started?

Tarkus, I think you're missing the main point here... there will be no state of the art if everyone buys Behringer gear.

 

Think of it this way; you write a song. The song is somewhat successful. The song is called "Lowdown." You are willing to perform the song at any venue for $100.

 

I come along, and steal your song, NOTE FOR NOTE AND WORD FOR WORD. I, however, rename "Downlow." I offer to play that song at the same venues for only $75. And, when I do play it, I pay you ZERO royalties.

 

Stealing ideas is one thing, but stealing the whole shabang, that's another issue.

 

Originally posted by tarkus:

We're musicians; most of us can barely scrape enough dough together for guitar, bass, or keyboard etc, without working day jobs to satify our G.A.S. (Gear Aquisition Syndrome: see Keyboard Corner).

Okay, if we go with this mentality; I cannot afford a brand new BMW M5 Sedan. If I buy a stolen one, is that okay? I mean, only the rich guy and the insurance company got hurt by that, and they don't need the money.

 

If you buy Behringer gear, you are effectively STEALING money from their competitors.

 

All that said, I do own some Behringer gear and I have found that it is actually pretty good stuff. Moral conflict? Maybe. I'm not really that concerned, but I'm also not going to sugar-coat it and say that it's okay just because I save money.

[WCunha]

Originally posted by getz76:

Originally posted by tarkus:

Would you advise a person to save-up for the $$state of the art$$ or buy the generic equivilant in the interest of getting started?

Tarkus, I think you're missing the main point here... there will be no state of the art if everyone buys Behringer gear.

 

Think of it this way; you write a song. The song is somewhat successful. The song is called "Lowdown." You are willing to perform the song at any venue for $100.

 

I come along, and steal your song, NOTE FOR NOTE AND WORD FOR WORD. I, however, rename "Downlow." I offer to play that song at the same venues for only $75. And, when I do play it, I pay you ZERO royalties.

 

Stealing ideas is one thing, but stealing the whole shabang, that's another issue.

 

Originally posted by tarkus:

We're musicians; most of us can barely scrape enough dough together for guitar, bass, or keyboard etc, without working day jobs to satify our G.A.S. (Gear Aquisition Syndrome: see Keyboard Corner).

Okay, if we go with this mentality; I cannot afford a brand new BMW M5 Sedan. If I buy a stolen one, is that okay? I mean, only the rich guy and the insurance company got hurt by that, and they don't need the money.

 

If you buy Behringer gear, you are effectively STEALING money from their competitors.

 

All that said, I do own some Behringer gear and I have found that it is actually pretty good stuff. Moral conflict? Maybe. I'm not really that concerned, but I'm also not going to sugar-coat it and say that it's okay just because I save money.

I totally agree. Just like Getz said if we all went out and bought Behringer nothing would advance and we would be stuck with never inproving on anything because every company they ripped off would be out of business.

 

Think about practices like that could do to a small company like say Acme. Beheringer comes out with thier Low "A" cabinet no one now buys anything from Andy Lewis who innovatied this particular cabinet. He goes out of business now there won't be a series III cabinet to offer or any other product he may come up with.

 

I don't think this particular scenerio would be likely but, you get my point just as Getz and Robb. said.

 

I wil continue to buy from companies who innovate not copy what they did.

 

Wade

[tarkus]

I don't think Behrenger is stealing - they may have properly secured patents to build this stuff.

If not.. there's gonna be some p'd off folks out there!

 

I understand that if 'everyone' buys the same thing there will be no reason to improve. But not everyone will buy the same thing, otherwise we'd all be playing P-basses through B-15's.

 

I offer the comment as low-cost-alternative. I don't know if this is theft - then Musician's Friend or anyone that carries their products would be considered a 'fence' or 'storefront'.

 

Who knows whether they are infringing or not? I guessed they aren't and more than likely secured some liscences for yesterday's SOA.

 

err, is yesterday's SOA today's POS?

[69tele]

I also have an ep-1500 as a backup PA amp and we also use it for small gigs.

 

So far so good great sound and fantastic quality.

 

Ernie

[Steve Force]

When I was in the market for a full-function MIDI foot controller, I did quite a bit of research ( and tried out a few different ones).

 

The Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller won hands down. Why? It was staggeringly feature rich and was by far the best value of all I researched.

 

The only drawback was their pathetic documentation. After doing some googling found a site which explained it better and I was good to go!

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by tarkus:

I don't think Behrenger is stealing - they may have properly secured patents to build this stuff.

If not.. there's gonna be some p'd off folks out there!

They are, they haven't and there are! Unfortunately the cost of litigation is usually uneconomical for the companies from whom they're stealing (QSC and Mackie, for instance, may seem big but they're not really) hence Behringer gets away with it.

 

Bob Lee from QSC is particularly amusing on this subject because not only did Behringer copy practically every little detail of their RMX series amps, they also copied most of the text from the manual which he'd written, and for the NAMM show exhibited a perspex topped example of their new amp, the innards of which were straight out of a QSC!

 

Truth is stranger than fiction...

 

Alex