What exactly is 'selling out' as far as music is concerned?

[Adamixoye]

Originally posted by tom rivet:

Love this list. Brittney and Madonna pashing would have to be at least a 3, I'd say a 2. I think a lot of world wide tours are in the 3 cattegory....my 2 cents

Thanks for your approval of the list. I disagree a little bit with your examples though. The way I look at it, both Ms. Spears and Madonna probably still love music, and pop music at that, and love to sing. So in terms of their music they are doing no worse than Level 4.

 

In terms of their extraneous packaging (live performances and such), though, you may be right. Are they doing things they wouldn't otherwise do (Level 3) and/or things that are humiliating to them (Level 2)? Maybe so.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Great list! You must be a professor at this sir. You've made the point very clear.

[bc_dup1]

Worth pointing out that money isn't the only motive for selling out. Substitute "fame" or "celebrity" for money in Adam's list and it still works.

[lug]

(marks "hitman" off of Things-To-Do list.)

 

[Adamixoye]

Originally posted by bc:

Worth pointing out that money isn't the only motive for selling out. Substitute "fame" or "celebrity" for money in Adam's list and it still works.

Yes, that's a good point. Actually, it still works for all five levels, although not for one of the examples...I can't think of too many cases where someone tried to kill someone else for fame or celebrity, although I guess that guy who shot Reagan in an attempt to impress Jodie Foster was giving it a shot...

[badgerbass]

There are examples of people who live life between recording and touring; who work to make themselves more complete people. They bring new insights into their music. Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Peter Gabriel, Pete Townshend, Roger Waters, all those Fleetwood Mac folks, and many, many others (even ZZ Top!) still have important stuff to say on later albums.

 

Here's the thing: people like Neil Young, Peter Gabriel, and Kate Bush are in points in their careers where they can do/say/play/record whatever they want to as often or as infrequently as they want to. Gabriel puts out an album about every 10 years, Neil Young about every 1.5 years, and we have been waiting about 11 years for a new Kate Bush album. These people are in the enviable position of an "artist" who can do or say whatever they want without too much worry over commercial success.

 

With new artists that have a successful (remember "successful" and "popular" are objective, "good" is subjective) first album, there is an incredible amount of pressure to produce another. And usually the record company tries to steer them into even more mainstream appeal. No Doubt is a good example. Great bass player, btw; but their material has arguably gotten much more mainstream and "MTV-oriented" than when they started.

 

Whether this is "selling out" or not is subjective. I say, just listen to what you like, forget the rest and "to each his/her own."

 

The problem with music is our society is that the line between "art" and "product" is very unclear.

 

Guy

[badgerbass]

Btw, check out this link for some interesting discussion on this subject:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/music/

[Bass_god_offspring]

It's interesting that high schoolers with no jobs are experts on what "selling out" means.

 

And that they will stop liking a band when the band actually manages to get paid for what it does.

i hope u aren't talking about me Jeremy, lol.

 

i didn't say anything about knowing what it mean't, just that it pisses me off sometimes.

[jeremy c]

Wasn't talking about you, BGO. You know what's happening. I was talking about the non-musician, so-called "music fans" who you go to high school with.

[Tenstrum]

I believe that TOOL said it best in their song: "Hooker with a penis"

Lyrics:

Hooker with a Penis

-----------------------------------------------

I met a boy wearing Vans, 501s, and a

Dope Beastie t, nipple rings, and

New tattoos that claimed that he

Was OGT,

From '92,

The first EP.

 

And in between

Sips of Coke

He told me that

He thought

We were sellin' out,

Layin' down,

Suckin' up

To the man.

 

Well now I've got some

Advice for you, little buddy.

Before you point the finger

You should know that

I'm the man,

 

And if I'm the man,

 

Then you're the man, and

He's the man as well so you can

Point that f*ckin' finger up your @ss.

 

All you know about me is what I've sold you,

Dumb f*ck.

I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

 

I sold my soul to make a record,

Dip sh*t,

And you bought one.

 

So I've got some

Advice for you, little buddy.

Before you point your finger

You should know that

I'm the man,

 

If I'm the f*ckin' man

Then you're the f*ckin' man as well

So you can

Point that f*ckin' finger up your @ss.

 

All you know about me is what I've sold you,

Dumb f*ck.

I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

 

I sold my soul to make a record,

Dip sh*t,

And you bought one.

 

All you read and

Wear or see and

Hear on TV

Is a product

Begging for your

Fat@ss dirty

Dollar

 

So...Shut up and

 

Buy my new record

Send more money

F*ck you, buddy.

-----------------------------------------

[Lawnmower8]

Tool.

Nice.

 

I say, play what you like. It's up to everyone whether or not to like it.

[Dan South]

Selling out means having more success than some jealous, unfulfilled person who accuses you of "selling out."

[Bass_god_offspring]

Wasn't talking about you, BGO. You know what's happening. I was talking about the non-musician, so-called "music fans" who you go to high school with.

ok, lol, i wasn't sure, becuase i am currently unemployed too at the moment (hoping to get a job at a nearby hobby shop).

[Bass_god_offspring]

i think Pocket Full Of Posers (local band) said it best:

 

Sell Outs

 

I'm not to sure if these trends can get any worse

I feel as if i'm living in a time that's cursed

the status quoe makes me fell like i don't fit in

and now if you're hardcore your'll make it really big

 

So sell out

if you're hard core

sell out

if you own a liqour store

sell out

if you want to rap some more

sell out

and if you like Korn

sell out

Seems like every body does

sell out

let's do it just becuase

 

So pack up your crap and get off TV

that award that you just won should really go to me

screw MTV!

(screw it!)

 

[Bass_god_offspring]

i know that this topic is a few weeks old, but i just thought of something about it today.

 

a lot of people thought that The Offspring sold out becuase in their song "Original Prankster" Redman (the rapper) said one line in it.

 

now are they calling this selling out becuase The Offspring weren't being "anti rap" like most rock bands? just something interesting to me.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Rock bands are anti Rap? I didn't know! But most of those Nu-metal rockers like Limpbizkit etc.. keep rapping in dem songs. Or isn't that Rock? Educate I please.

[Bass_god_offspring]

Rock bands are anti Rap? I didn't know! But most of those Nu-metal rockers like Limpbizkit etc.. keep rapping in dem songs. Or isn't that Rock? Educate I please.

well a lot of rockers are, not all though. not neccesarily "anti-rap" just not into it.

[xvincex]

For me, selling out actually means changing your sound (in a major way) to get more fans,money,success etc..

[EddiePlaysBass]

Originally posted by Adamixoye:

Between (3) and (4) You love music but hate country; you take a country gig for the money

Idunno Adamixoye ... I don't like country, but I like to play bass. And I am a student so I have no income. If a country band would call me and show me some nice figures, I'd go for it completely and never really feel like a sell-out. But then again, I do have to add that I would give it my all time best, and act like a "pro" would, rather than just go in their, do some simple lines, be (and look) bored all evening and collect my money afterwards. I'd give them a reason to call me back