Power: conditioner vs. surge protecting strip

[_Sweet Willie_]

OK, I use a power strip -- ya' know one of those with a surge protector.

 

I often see folks with a power conditioner (more often than not a Furman) in their racks. There seem to be various types of these, and the more expensive they are, the more features they have (e.g., lights, volt meters, tuners, "pick-your-color" faceplates, etc.).

 

1. What do you use, and please list any "special" features it may have?

2. Why?

3. From a technical standpoint is one better than the other (strip vs. conditioner)?

 

Thanks.

 

Peace.

--Sweet "honey ain't got nuthin' on me" Willie

[jeremy c]

I;ve got the cheapest Furman power conditioner in my rack....so that everything can be plugged in all the time and I only need to plug in one cord.

 

Unless you have the most expensive model which can actually regulate the voltage, I don't see the point.

[ibescotty]

I just play through a power strip, but then again I only plug my amp into it and nothing else. My set us is very simple.

[Bassplayer58]

I was going to buy the cheapest Furman power conditioner but i was taking back a digitech x-seires compressor that did not work and the store did not give money back. so since i was going to get the cheapest Furman power conditioner i got the next step up with lights so i don't have to bring a flash light to dark gigs to see my stuff. i use it so i don't have to plug everything in when i get tp the place I am going(since i am usally late)

 

-dan

[randy clay]

One of the advantages is that's a power conditioner will even out the fluctuating voltages you often seen on the main AC line. If the voltage dips, it will bring it up. When it peaks, it will clamp it down. Your amp and effects will be happy if you convert (does that sound like a commercial?)

 

Or, you could go with a battery backup, and when the power goes down, you can keep on playing....

[jeremy c]

You need the expensive one to even out the power...the cheaper ones just tell you that the voltage has dropped...or they don't tell you anything.

 

Low voltages can wreak havoc with digital gear and high powered amplifiers. And a B-3 will drop in pitch.

[MattC]

Ya get what ya pay for. In ideal conditions, the basic one will do ya just fine. If you plan to be playing in places where you are unsure of the line voltage and regulation thereof, then things like a display of incoming voltage canbe handy. Lights are always a nice thing- if they are built into the rack, all the better. Personally, though, I'm pining for one of those chameleon rack-lights.

 

I run the electrical dept. at my store; I can't tell you the number of people who spend good money on A/V equipment and then fail to protect it from erratic line conditions. Numerous people only buy a surge after they lost a stereo or TV during a storm (I'll assume that you are smarter than to simple plug your equipment into an outlet). It seems a simple protection for some rather expensive equipment.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Yup, I always use a surge protector for my gear (and various stuff around the house, like my computer).

 

I'm trying to get at what I think Jeremy has elucidated the best -- using a power conditioner seems to be a benefit primarily for convenience (leaving gear plugged in and only needing to connect a single plug when you arrive at a gig or rehearsal, or you really wanted the additional side features -- like lights -- that sometimes come with it) unless you get a more expensive model that regulates voltage. Based on what Matt has added, the voltage regulation may be really useful if you're playing venues where the electrical system may be suspect.

 

I would like to hear from others, though. And would be happy to hear from folks in particular if they think there's something incorrect in my summation...

[PJR]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

I've got the cheapest Furman power conditioner in my rack....so that everything can be plugged in all the time and I only need to plug in one cord.

 

Unless you have the most expensive model which can actually regulate the voltage, I don't see the point.

Ditto Here.

 

I would also add that......for power amps, especially larger models that draw significant current from the wall,( or multi amp systems ) you would require very high quality Voltage regulators, or find yourself actually choking the amps of vital current.

Money here is better spent on ensuring quality , stable AC from the wall.

 

PJR

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by Peter J Romano:

I would also add that......for power amps, especially larger models that draw significant current from the wall,( or multi amp systems ) you would require very high quality Voltage regulators, or find yourself actually choking the amps of vital current.

Money here is better spent on ensuring quality , stable AC from the wall.

 

PJR

Can you give some examples of power amps that you would classify as "larger models"?

 

Are we talking about bad boys that are putting out 2000+ watts RMS into 4 ohms bridged, or are we including some of the power amps that are perhaps more common for us bass players, like a Mackie 1400 or QSC PLX 1602 (or a MacroTech 1200 -- don't you have one of those?), which put out in the n'hood of 1500W RMS bridged into 4 ohms?

 

Peace.

[PJR]

http://5centmary.com/CrownAmp_rack.jpg

 

One of my PA Amp Racks.

 

I don't plug the amps into the Tripplite up top....just the X-over (not pictured as I pulled it for servicing in this pic )& monitor EQ.

 

Each MA2400 can pull 20+ amps from the wall by itself.

 

PJR

[SteveC]

So, if I'm looking to gain a space in my 4 space rack, I would be OK getting rid of my Furman Power Unit and using a surge protected power strip instead?

 

If so, that would be sweet. Then my rig problems would be solved. I could rack:

 

Pre Amp (1 space)

Multi-Effects (1 space)

Power Amp (2 space)

 

Set that rack on top of my Goliath 4X10 with nice big replacement wheels so it rolls nice, put my wireless receiver and tuner/mute pedal loose on top of the case (I have a strips of Velcro on the bottom of them to hold them on the carpeted case, works great) and be good to go.

 

I'll keep the WM10 for in home practice.

 

Please someone tell me this would work. Then I could finally quit playing gear merry-go-round and start paying off credit cards and maybe own a house someday.

[PJR]

Yep.....you'd be fine.

 

 

PJR

[_Sweet Willie_]

Depending on how deep your rack is and the depth of your rack-mounted goodies, you would probably be able to bundle up your power strip and pop it in the back of the rack for transportation.

 

PJR, you have been most helpful in all of this. Thanks.

 

I would still like to hear from other folks, though, about what they use and why.

 

Thanks all.

[The Bear Jew]

Power strip here...

 

I have a 2-space rack for my SWR Sm-500 head. All of my "amp-essential" cables (speaker cables, power cable) fit in the back of the rack along with my power strip. The amp power cable stays plugged into the power strip.

 

When I get to the gig, I pop my head on top of my cabs, open up the front, pop off the back, plug in my speaker cables, plug in my power strip and push the rig into position.

 

Takes about 30 seconds.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by CMDN:

...When I get to the gig, I pop my head on top of my cabs, open up the front, pop off the back, plug in my speaker cables, plug in my power strip and push the rig into position.

 

Takes about 30 seconds.

Word.

[Mr. Phil]

Power Strip Here...

At practice, I plug my amp into one outlet, otherwise I get the 60Hz hum. (or is it 60 cycle) Everything else is plugged into 2 power strips which are plugged into 1 wall outlet. Thats probably not good, but thats what we ahve to work with.

 

Originally posted by randy clay:

One of the advantages is that's a power conditioner will even out the fluctuating voltages you often seen on the main AC line. If the voltage dips, it will bring it up. When it peaks, it will clamp it down. Your amp and effects will be happy if you convert (does that sound like a commercial?)

Yes. Yes it does.

[MattC]

1Hz = 1 cycle

[Rick Hoffman]

Morning, Lowdowners...

 

I just bought a Furman, I believe its the 2nd model up, with pull out lights that swivel(and those bulbs are generic, easily replaceable, I believe the same type of light found in most xmas-tree light things, so I plan on doing that soon for the holidays, throw in a red and green bulb...)

 

I got a 4 space road-ready case, which is awesome. My SVT3-pro is on bottom, I left the feet on and screwed in the 2 top screws, so the amp face is pitched up just a little bit. The the Furman is way up top with all 4 face screws put in and it hangs up there nice.

 

Plenty of room all around inside the roadcase, the amp cable, Furman cable, and some other misc cables fit in there no problem. I love how this thing is made, very sturdy.

 

The only thing I dislike is how the rubber feet on the roadready case don't match up with Ampeg's rests on top of my 4x10. But hey it could be worse...

[Rick Hoffman]

I forgot to add somthing...

I bought the Furman because I didn't want to take any chances with my equipment. The main reason behind my purchase, over a regular power strip, is the fact that it has a generator so your energy is comin direct from the Furman meanwhile its drawin current and regulatiing it to a steady stream for your amp.

 

Or thats what I was told, anyhow. Those kids at GC, hard-sellers...

[Steve Force]

Generator?

[Tenstrum]

Furman RACK RIDER RR15

http://www.music123.com/Furman-RACK-RIDER-RR15-i84740.music

[BenLoy]

The main reason behind my purchase, over a regular power strip, is the fact that it has a generator so your energy is comin direct from the Furman meanwhile its drawin current and regulatiing it to a steady stream for your amp.

 

Or thats what I was told, anyhow. Those kids at GC, hard-sellers...

Never believe anything a salesman is telling he's confirming research you've done yourself.

[g.]

What a waste of time it is to try and help people around here. I just posted for probably the fifth time about this a few days ago. Where the differences are, what to look for, how to save money, etc.

 

Most of those rack mount things do nothing that a well-chosen strip won't do for $10-$25 (depending on its extra features).

 

UNLESS THE RACK IS MORE THAN TWO RACK SPACES IT IS NOT A CONDITIONER. It's just a glorified power strip. Real conditioners have autotap transformer isolation and keep brownouts and overvoltage to +/- 3% of 117.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by greenboy:

What a waste of time it is to try and help people around here...

GB, I've noticed that JWH sometimes get the wrong end of the stick. Some would say he's even prone to being obtuse. I sighed when I read his post.

 

On the other hand, the Furman was acquired as part of a trade-in on an old Bassman, so maybe it wasn't such a foolish buy. Okay, okay, I did say 'maybe'...

 

Alex

[...]

Word, GB.

 

I have a cheap-ass Furman for the sake of convenience. All my junk plugs into it then I plug the Furman into the wall. Simple. Neat. Easy. At some point I might actually buy a conditioner, as the power in most Seattle clubs is dodgy, at best.

[wraub]

I have long used a good strip instead of a rack model, as it was less expensive, worked as well or better, and I didn't have a rack.

 

And hey, at least JWH apparently did a search and added on to an existing thread.

Can we give him some credit for that?

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[Fred TBP]

Tripp Lite product literature (Acrobat PDF files)

 

Mine is home and I can't recall the specific model. When I bought mine it was about $400 and took up 4 rack spaces. Used it on my computer to regulate 117VAC when my condo kept going into low-voltage and brownout situations. If I'm not mistaken, these are the people that offer insurance protection if one of their products fail. I never needed to take advantage of the warranty/protection.

 

Had a buddy (soundguy) a few years back who got a Crown amp repaired by Tripp Lite when he sent them the failed conditioner and a statement from the local repair person who documented this was due to component failure on TL's part. They also shipped him a new conditioner (his model was discontinued).

 

Today I have a few scattered around the house: one is on my current computer, another is hooked up to my TV monitors and cable box.

 

I also have a Furman in one of my racks and it hasn't failed me either. Knock on wood.

[g.]

That Tripplite thing in Peter's rack pic above - that (or an equivalent form Juice Goose or Furman in the same amount of rack space) is the next step up from a good surge protector power strip. Everything in between the two is at best at the same level as the good power strip, in terms of protection.

 

EDIT: The REAL POWER CONDITIONERS weigh a lot because there is a big transformer in them. That is also why they require more than one rack space. It's tough to make that level of transformer in a narrow form factor.

[wraub]

Originally posted by greenboy:

That Triplite thing in Peter's rack pic above - that (or an equivalent form Juice Goose or Furman in the same amount of rack space) is the next step up from a good surge protector power strip. Everything in between the two is at best at the same level as the good power strip, in terms of protection.

Yup. Back in my radio days, we had Tripplites and UPS devices everywhere, and every engineer, whether in-house or travelling, made it clear that the "important" stuff HAD to be connected to those, no question.

 

Everything else was ok on a good quality strip, as there were not many levels of protection in-between that were affordable, and the strips were fine for most things.

 

But the distinction between the Tripplite gear, the strips, and "power conditioners" was impressed upon me as hardline and absolute.

A learning experience in many ways...

 

Peace,

 

wraub