OT-making posts more intelligible

[jeremy c]

I found some great new ways to make our posts intelligible.

Those of us who have trouble with typing, spelling or grammar may find this useful.

 

translator number one (with results below)

I found some kinda' great fresh ways t' make our posts intelligible. Dose-dair

o' us who have trouble wit' typin', spellin' o' grammah' may find dis useful.

translator number two (with results below)

Yall liss'n here. I foun' some great new ways ta mekk our posts intelligible.

 

Those of us who have trouble wif typin, spellin or grammar may fin' this useful. Ya reckon?

[wraub]

Funny stuff, Jeremy.

I went to Translator #1 and typed in "I am a bass player".

 

It came back with "I be some bass playa".

It knows me already!

I like it so much I will close with it for a while. Let me know what ya think...

 

Peace,

 

wraub

I be some bass playa

[getz out]

On topic of this off-topic thread, I agree. While I understand that most of the posting population on this forum do not have the time to craft a nice bit of flowing prose, I have the distinct feeling that the quality void is a consequence of a lack of ability rather than a lack of effort. The written word suffers like it has never suffered before, partially fueled by these readily available forums, the advent of spell and grammar tools, and the lack of editors.

 

Maury

[SteveC]

I wish some new posters would take some time to see how great this board is before they post.

 

Sam2000 - I didn't know about you at first, but you seem to be getting the hang of it.

 

Regulars - hang in there. Hopefully it will get better.

[JDL]

The old guide the new, and when the new become the old...it starts over again.

 

Rock on.

[sam 2000]

wow dude dats great

 

[ibescotty]

Korn be some tru-ly da Lord band. I likes deir beat some whole lot. They be da

damn shit.

[Ninja]

I'm from Italy and try to write as clear as possible.

I know that my style may sound strange to most of you, but I think this is an excellent way to get closer to your way of thinking and I confess I'm very scared when I read all those slang expressions, but I don't care.

I will never use a translator, because I know how much they can betray me (and you, of course).

I'm a professional IT translator and all I can "steal" from you will be very useful for my job.

Thank you.

[ClarkW]

Originally posted by Ninja:

I'm from Italy and try to write as clear as possible.

And you do just fine. The thing is, I could point out the fact that you should have used "clearly" instead of "clear" in that sentence, but I can also tell the difference between someone putting effort into translating their ideas, and someone putting no effort into writing it in the first place.

 

For example, if you had written:

 

"hey dont maek fun of me im from italy and try 2 write as clear as posible."

 

I might not have believed you. Maybe it's just me, having taught English as a second language and lived in a foreign country for 2 years, and having learned that language, but I can tell the difference between translated speech and a US (or British or Aussie) high school English reject pretty quickly. The foreigners will almost never garner a notice, whereas the Netspeak dudes will often start my head shaking.

[dcr]

Love the jive translator. Some nice results:

 

"An' now 4 sump'n complete-like different."

"Dis parrot be definite-like decaised."

"Right, who's gots some boil on wassups semprini, den?"

"Mah hovercraft be full o' eels."

"I've gots some gay-lib meetin' at foe."

And of course, "Albatross!"

 

Very useful.

 

And as my icon always says, "I think, therefo' I be. Slap mah 'fro!"

[BigBoyBigSound]

Originally posted by Maury:

On topic of this off-topic thread, I agree. While I understand that most of the posting population on this forum do not have the time to craft a nice bit of flowing prose, I have the distinct feeling that the quality void is a consequence of a lack of ability rather than a lack of effort. The written word suffers like it has never suffered before, partially fueled by these readily available forums, the advent of spell and grammar tools, and the lack of editors.

Yeah what he said.

Um... I mean.. I concur whole-heartedly with your previous statement.

[...]

...and for those times when you need to translate an entire web page of stuff:

 

Tha Shizzolator

[Scoot]

Originally posted by Bumpcity:

...and for those times when you need to translate an entire web page of stuff:

 

Tha Shizzolator

This is the greatest site I have seen in my life. Thank you Bump, thank you.

[...]

Originally posted by Scootdog:

Originally posted by Bumpcity:

...and for those times when you need to translate an entire web page of stuff:

 

Tha Shizzolator

This is the greatest site I have seen in my life. Thank you Bump, thank you.

 

You're so very welcome, Scoot-doggie-dogg.

[sam 2000]

I balem my lack of bein able to use the english language right on acount'a my teachers did'nt try to beat that Rachem Frachem crap into me. i dont need not stinkin translatin page any way dat's my story and I am'a stickin to it. heck bad spellin runs in my familly ya'll hear dat(that means you all get what iam sayin)

[davebrownbass]

Hey sam2000...I haven't gotten in to this yet, but I have to say I agree with my friends about the inconvenience of trying to translate a post that is supposedly written in English.

 

See...we care. It's obvious to me by the quality of your posts that you need our attention...you desire to be a part of this club. That's great! We want you in it as well.

 

We take the time to "suss out" (POTD to me for the odd greenboy reference) your posts because we see you reaching out.

 

But I, as a public school teacher, have to put my foot down right here.

 

Don't blame your teachers here publicly. Shame on you. Unless you can tell me that you paid attention, did your homework, avoided getting in trouble in school. Unless you can tell me you gave all of your heart to your own learning, unless you can tell me honestly that you tried and they were cruel and heartless and socially passed you to the next grade. Unless you can tell me that you went out to the library and checked out books and lay in bed at night with a nightlight reading them. Unless you can tell me that your parents sat down with you and discussed school; unless you can tell me that they did homework with you.

 

I'm so fed up with this tired-ass shit! Teachers are blamed unjustly, not only by students, but by their parents, the community, the press, the administration, the politicians.

 

We only do miracles with exactly what walks in the door. The vast majority of teachers are tireless, hard workers that really desire to do their job. There are no more bad teachers than there are bad doctors, bad auto mechanics, bad grocers.

 

But learning implies personal involvement. Always.

 

So kids walk through our doors, not taking school seriously, not caring, playing, getting social and wind up hating school. Of course...

 

Because what we do, you don't do. WE PAY ATTENTION AND TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR OWN LEARNING!!! We are not like our poorest students; we have nothing in common with them, except the genuine need to be accepted for what we are.

 

You want to learn bass? I promise you it is tenfold more difficult than learning spelling and grammar. You are surrounded by correct spelling and grammer your entire life. It's on TV, in the paper, in Bass Player Magazine...even in most popular music out there. And it hasn't taken hold yet.

 

Proper bass playing is also out there for the taking. I started learning ONLY BY LISTENING AND PLAYING WHAT I HEARD ON THE RADIO. And was getting paid to play long before I had my first lesson, or even a group of pro bass players with sleeves on which I could rub my snotty nose.

 

It's not funny anymore, young man. Don't trot out your feeble posts, prideful about how much you DON'T know.

 

Gentlemen and Ladies: I make a public motion. From now on, we treat posters who make no effort to write properly exactly like we treat trolls who snipe at us. We ignore them.

 

(C'mon Dave. Tell us how you really feel!)

[getz out]

Originally posted by davebrownbass:

I'm so fed up with this tired-ass shit! Teachers are blamed unjustly, not only by students, but by their parents, the community, the press, the administration, the politicians.

 

There are no more bad teachers than there are bad doctors, bad auto mechanics, bad grocers.

 

But learning implies personal involvement.

Wow, Dave, apologies for the abbreviation of your post in my quote, but your statements are some of the most honest and intelligent I have read or heard a public school teacher state.

 

I agree, we live in a world where blame is passed. "It couldn't possibly be my fault." It is a pervasive problem in our society.

 

I also love the fact that you acknowledge, unlike many of the more outspoken of your profession, that there are good and bad teachers.

 

Involvement is key. I love people who try to accomplish things without trying. Get rich quick, get thin quick, get smart quick.

 

Great post, Dave.

 

Maury Spadoto

Hoboken, NJ

[alexclaber]

And on a practical level - the search facility doesn't work too well with posts that are spelt wrong, so all your valuable but misspelt contributions will be forever lost in the ether.

 

Alex

[fig]

Outstanding post, Dave!

 

Though it bothers me a little to ignore the mispelt and crappy grammurr postings, as that person is trying his/her best to get bass questions answered, it just might be enough incentive, while being ignored, to force that person to start learning spelling and grammer. Of course it's not a problem with international people, but for the Americans here, it's unacceptable. Your point about the real world readings and literature was right on. How can a person cope if all they know is IM'ese combined with bad spelling and grammer?

 

For those of you who might be guilty of this (whether purposeful or lack of educational background), please try real hard. Not only for our sake, though I know it probably sounds like we're picking on you, but for your own future as well. As Dave said, we do care, but you gotta take that responsibility on by yourself and for yourself. You CAN do it.

 

Tom

[DigiVoices]

I think Dave is right on with his thoughts on the role of teachers. They are not there to pound information into your head. They are there to HELP you learn, to provide a base on which you can build from. Granted some of them are better at doing this then others, but in the end it is your own responsibility.

 

I think one of the things that should be addressed (taught) more in middle school/high school are the different ways that people learn. If you can understand which learning style works best for you it is much easier to focus your energy and actually see results. Theres nothing worse then getting frustrated and tuning out.

 

When I joined the forum I tried to spell everything correctly, but didn't really bother to use the SHIFT key. In recent weeks I have converted and started to use those damn CAPITAL LETTERS when I have to. Im sure jeremyc would be proud. I will admit it is much easier to read a post that someone takes their time to write correctly and I am more inclined to respect that persons opinion.

 

So there you go, my two cents, a few years ago I would probably have been on the other side of this spectrum.

 

That was a pretty random post...where's the bass content?

 

How about this, for you teachers out there that give bass lessons, do you approach your lessons the same way with every student?

[ibescotty]

You know Dave I think your still holding back there on us......

 

School Teachers are the foundation of our society. Why we don't treat them as such is often beyond me.

That said sometimes the system that the teachers have to exist in is faulty inept and ridiculous. To me that's all the more reason to respect the good teachers that somehow manage to reach kids against the odds.

I went to elementary school at an inner city school in Kensington Philadelphia. It got a little better when we moved to North East Philly but not much. The school was probably over crowded and under funded. My parents were very frustrated. It only took one teacher to reach me and give me a wake up call.

 

One person can make a difference, and in a kids life that difference is worth years.

 

OK whered that soapbox come from!!!!

[dcr]

Dave, you've noticed exactly what I've noticed: people think learning/education is a commodity. Teachers hand it out in the same way that the lunch workers hand out the lunches. If they don't give it to you, then forget about it.

 

The truth is that no one has ever learned anything from a teacher. Ever. Everyone learns for themselves, period. It's just that much of the time a teacher can give you help that you can't do without. Learning isn't something the teacher or anyone else does for you, or ever could. It's something YOU have to do. Teachers are there to help. (Socrates pointed this out about 2500 years ago, btw.)

 

I once had a student complain that English requirements on my paper assignments (I'm not an English teacher, btw) were unfair, because their teachers hadn't taught them grammar etc. I just looked at him and asked, "And is there something the matter with YOU? You think if it wasn't covered in class, you just can't learn it, or don't need to?" He just stared at me like, Holy crap, I never thought of it that way!! (He was a very bright guy, so I think he got the point. If you want to know it, you've got to make a point to learn it!)

 

Most people have never thought of it that way. And that is exactly why they don't learn. It's also why college eats them alive.

 

It's nothing to be proud of.

 

And it certainly won't do anything to make you an "artist." If you don't know how to learn, then what are you going to do?

[jeremy c]

It's amazing that this thread which I started as a joke has evolved into this excellent discussion. That's why I love this forum (and seem to spend such a long time at it every day).

 

I did have an ulterior motive in the joke which was to poke fun at the illiterates.

 

In another thread, someone chided me for criticizing someone for asking for tab, saying, "you weren't born reading."

 

At the age of four, I wanted to read my own story books so I began reading. I taught myself, I guess. I've been reading every day since then. Of course now that I teach jr. high I meet students who only read what is assigned to them. My God! When I was in jr. high I read every book in the young adult section and every book in the science fiction section of my local library.

 

At the age of ten I decided that I wanted to play music. My parents got me an instrument and a teacher and I learned to read and was in the school band shortly afterward. I don't remember that learning how to read music was any big deal and I have read music every day of my life since then. I was under the impression that reading music was part of being a musician. Isn't it?

 

For the past thirty years, I have been teaching bass and giving students a 12 bar reading assignment in first position. Maybe one in ten actually does it and returns the next week able to play it.

 

 

From the bottom of my heart, I thank all my wise and literate friends for their wonderful contributions to the Low Down Lowdown.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

For the past thirty years, I have been teaching bass and giving students a 12 bar reading assignment in first position. Maybe one in ten actually does it and returns the next week able to play it.

 

 

From the bottom of my heart, I thank all my wise and literate friends for their wonderful contributions to the Low Down Lowdown.

No, sir, thank you!

 

Give me a 12-bar assignment, dammit, and I'll learn to play it -- rusty reading skills or not!

 

Written language was a momentous accomplishment for humankind and allows for unbelievable things to happen. Combining written language and the internet allows for unbelievable communication. Doing our best to write well and read carefully opens up fantastic possibilities for what we can know and what we can do. We each bear responsibility for that.

 

Written musical notation allows for fantastic possibilities of musical communication. Think about how simply adding a "mf" or a "pp" or even changing a couple of quarter notes to eighth notes and eighth rests affects how someone interprets your musical message!

 

I'm done now. {Replaces sopabox to its spot under desk.}

 

Peace.

[wraub]

(giggles)

Willie said PP!

(giggles)

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by wraub:

(giggles)

Willie said PP!

(giggles)

 

Peace,

 

wraub

I was hoping someone would catch that!

[ClarkW]

In all of my 10 years in public school, I don't think I ever once met a teacher who was paid what they were worth.

 

I've known men and women who have literally done more to directly influence the GDP of the US with what they have taught so many children, and the lives they have touched, than any $1000-an-hour business performance consultant. Yet they are paid $10 or $15 an hour, and their other job duties include disciplinarian, counselor, comedian and entertainer, researcher, innovator, and even janitor.

 

Honestly, I'm a great teacher. I tutor a number of kids, from elementary through college level, in math, science, history, English, French, music, and more. But I do it basically for free right now because I chose another career path which affords me enough time to tutor as a hobby/favor.

 

When I look down inside myself, though, I know the reason I'm not a career teacher. I'm too greedy. I wanted more money, and I knew I could get as a computer programmer what I could not as an educator. It's my choice and my loss, really. I have to literally volunteer to teach Sunday School and tutor children for free just so I can keep that desire to teach satiated from day to day, year to year.

 

9 times out of 10, the fault rests solely on the student and his/her uncaring parents for a lackluster education.

 

The question for which I have yet to find a satisfactory answer is this: Why, in our enlightened society, do we value our educators so poorly when their value to our society is so evident?

 

Now, I've found answers to that question, but none of them satisfactory, because they all expose various sides of humanity that I am loathe to accept.

[wraub]

I agree, this society that seems to value athletes and movie stars more than teachers and social workers/mental health workers/counselors has long irked me.

It's probably from growing up in a family of teachers and social workers that I developed this attitude, but I find it ridiculous that those who do the most to ensure that the rules of society are lived by, are treated with the least respect, monetarily and otherwise.

Hell, in some places, garbagemen make more money, and there are few occupations that get less respect from the great unwashed. But how about that NASCAR?

So sad...

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[Graham56]

I find this thread fascinating.

 

Without planning it that way, I ended up working as a book editor for a major UK publisher. But as Id been educated in the 1970s, Id been through the period where it wasnt the done thing to teach formal grammar and punctuation. The theory of the time was, 'Formal teaching is old-fashioned and unproductive - it hampers their natural creativity. They need to bring it out themselves rather than be taught by rote.'

 

Bollocks. There are some things that have to be taught. In the old-fashioned way.

 

So when I started work as an editor, I didnt have the basic tools of the job. But as I read books voraciously, most of the basics had been absorbed into my brain, even if I didnt know the terminology or the formal rules.

 

I ended up having to employ a number of strategies (which I still use). If I come to an awkward grammatical construction, Ill make the effort to go to a reference book and check. If I dont have time for that, Ill simplify the text to avoid the issue. But Ill still check later. Its rather like playing the bass. If Im jamming with others and I come to a difficult riff or phrase that I know I cant play, to keep things rolling along Ill usually fake it with a much simpler line. I see no reason why the guys Im jamming with should have to hang around while I learn stuff I could do in my own time. But I make damn sure that in my next solo practice I go back to that phrase, work it out properly and woodshed it like mad before next time.

 

I now work for a UK organisation that specialises in short training courses for people working for book publishers. We offer a couple of one-day grammar courses, one a revision of the basics that you should have learnt in school, the other a more advanced course that looks at some of the common traps and difficult areas.

 

Its a real eye-opener who comes on these courses. We get people from all sectors, including publishing, government, industry, charities and others. We get senior people with experience and professional skills, but who feel unsure of their ability to communicate to the standard they need in their business. Theyre seriously motivated, and appreciative as hell after the course.

 

My point? Sam2000, if youre still reading this far down, you might want to take stock and think a little about the future.

 

Maybe at your age, poor spelling, unstructured writing and unintelligible abbreviations doesnt appear to be a problem. If your friends write in the same way, why should you listen a bunch of grey-haired old bores going about this stuff? Now, I dont know anything about you or your aspirations, but I do know this. You NEED to be able to communicate in writing to get on, in whatever field you choose.

 

Do you want to succeed in business? If you cant string together a resume or application letter, how on earth are you going to even get on the ladder? And without the ability to write convincing letters, emails or documents youre not going to climb up that tree. Not ever.

 

The same goes for whatever field you want to be in. Engineering? Construction? The military? Music? The Arts? Whatever it is, to be a success you still need to get your message over. Job applications. Business proposals. Applications for finance. Advertising. Marketing fliers. Band resumes. Im sure you can think of more. And trust me on this, a thoughtful letter from the heart still works wonders with the ladies!

 

Youre NOT an idiot. Youre probably bursting with incredibly creative ideas, about things you want to achieve, about how things can be made better, about how things can change. But how are you going to make people listen if your words make no sense to them? If your spelling is so poor that people just laugh and give up halfway through the first three lines?

 

Sorry, I guess thats turned out to be an OT rant! It didnt start that way and I hadnt intended to become such.

 

Cheers

 

Graham

 

PS: And as this posting shows, its a good idea to have an idea where youre going to end up when you start to write

[Ninja]

I totally agree with the fact that good spelling and grammar are essential to make people better understood and better considered.

I work for a big American computer company as a project leader in translation and now I'm involved in a project of technical writing in which I try to put all the best grammar and syntax knowledge of the English language I can.

Before doing this, I took a university degree in foreign languages and literatures, namely English, and I began working at the university as a teacher of Italian language to foreign students.

Those were five of the best years of my life, that's why I know how a teacher's job can be frustrating if it's not well supported by people who don't give a damn about what you are saying in the classroom, or by a well organized scholastic system.

This topic is very interesting for people like me, because I have to confront with many styles, many local expressions and many errors, too.

I noticed many of you misspell words, just following the pronounce rules, but it can be very hard for a foreign person who was taught to read and write as from the dictionary.

I'm not going to criticize you at all, anyway, and I really appreciate your efforts, because remember that it's not that important that you are being seen also from abroad, but you are doing it for your own life, just as I try to do it for mine.

 

Thanks for your patience

 

 

P.S.: feel free to correct me whenever you think it's necessary, and let's not forget to use the Spell Check button when we write, maybe it can be useful.