John Lennon Songwriting Contest

[Sean Eldon]

http://www.jlsc.com

 

$30 entry fee. $30,000+ in cash and prizes. i'll have my entry in soon. the winner of the "rock" genre last year was awful, so i plan on dominating all competition.

 

here's a demo of my song. i'll do an actual recording and then submit it before i go on tour.

 

http://www.asobrock.com/seankit/storyfull.mp3

[Tedster]

Good luck...

 

Interesting tune!

 

I don't generally come down too hard on winners. Kinda hard to know what turns a judge's head. An example...I'm sure you've had some of your tunes that you love, but the audience is a bit cool to...then something that you've written that you're not overly enthusiastic about, but everyone else loves. Go figure.

 

I might enter. Not the rock category, though...maybe pop or folk. Got a couple of weeks to make up my mind.

[Sean Eldon]

Originally posted by Tedster:

An example...I'm sure you've had some of your tunes that you love, but the audience is a bit cool to...then something that you've written that you're not overly enthusiastic about, but everyone else loves.

the worst part of playing music. right there. choosing between being pretentious and being a tool.

[songrytr]

 

Unisong International Song Contest

 

No big bus full of Yamaha gear. No full page ads in Rolling Stone. Just a good, honest song contest.

 

We try harder.

 

[Tedster]

Why do both the JLSC and Unisong contest pages try to hide the deadline? I finally found the JLSC, it's Sept. 28th. Unisong?

 

I do like the "Pop Ballad" category Unisong has...'cause that's where my song will go. Hard to pit a sappy love ballad against an uptempo toe tapper...

 

OH FINALLY! I found the deadline! I had to get to page three of the "Enter now" bit to find that it's November 30th...

[dohhhhh6]

I like it! Just please get a real drummer! The distortion chorus sounds especially awesome. The weird thing in the last chorus are novel and cool, but please do some tweaking so the tone-wise is better and it's not sooo loud in the mix.

 

Otherwise, awesome!

[Sean Eldon]

this is just a demo, that's why it's got midi drums (i actually play drums very well) and isn't mixed. i get free time at the studio i work at, so i'll record it for real this week.

[deranged]

My experience last year with this contest was that there was no middle ground. The categories were just too few. Example, ballads, softer rock or whatever you want to call it, were missing. I entered five songs under "folk", knowing that my material wasn't really rock, which to me means ROCK. But it also wasn't really folk music either. Personally I think Lennon is doing spins with this representation, because the stuff I heard that actually won, well, I don't want to insult anyone here, but I don't believe he'd listen to much of it, or even much of what's on the radio these days. But hey, somebody wins. Good luck with it.

[Sean Eldon]

that's why i'm entering though. 99% of the music submitted to it (and 100% of the stuff that wins) is absolute garbage. so i'd like to try submitting a song that i feel is better than anything that won any sort of prize last year.

[deranged]

That's just it though, the crap is what usually wins. Kudos to anyone who actually beats the system.

 

"...and in the end"...it's only thirty bucks, so go for it.

[songrytr]

Originally posted by deranged:

That's just it though, the crap is what usually wins.

I think the "crap" label is highly subjective...as is all musical taste.

 

Speaking from the "contest" side of things, I believe this subjectivity is the weak point of all song contests. How can anyone be truly objective about what makes a song a winner?

 

We have traditionally used TAXI for our initial screenings. However, in recent years we've seen that the screeners there are more tuned in to more of a "produced" sound and the songs they were passing through reflected that.

 

Now we handle the screening process ourselves, using many of the same qualified people. We have more control over the screening criteria and we can also make sure that every song goes through two initial screenings...because two different people can have very different opinions about what makes an entry a "finalist."

 

Even so, every contest will end up choosing the winners from a larger batch of songs that ALL deserve to place. And no contest will ever please everybody with their choices. Every time we make our winner announcements we can count on a LOAD of nasty e-mails and phone messages.

 

Bottom line is most writers believe their stuff is better than everyone else's. Not a crticism but just a statement on how people are.

 

Besides, how else would we have the nerve to play our songs for people??

 

Don't ever stop writing!

 

[deranged]

I appreciate the behind the scenes view of how the JLS contest works. I found it interesting though, if not somewhat discouraging, to hear that until recently the judges favored the "more produced sounds", because it was clearly stated in the rules that content was more of a determining factor in its decision than the quality of the production. (Where's the line for refunds and how long is it?) Give the less equipped a chance! Write on. Cheers.

[Tedster]

Originally posted by deranged:

I appreciate the behind the scenes view of how the JLS contest works. I found it interesting though, if not somewhat discouraging, to hear that until recently the judges favored the "more produced sounds", because it was clearly stated in the rules that content was more of a determining factor in its decision than the quality of the production. (Where's the line for refunds and how long is it?) Give the less equipped a chance! Write on. Cheers.

He's not talking about JLSC...he's talking about the Unisong contest. And, the "produced" bit was something the judges noticed was being passed along by their initial screeners at TAXI.

[songrytr]

Originally posted by Tedster:

He's not talking about JLSC...he's talking about the Unisong contest. And, the "produced" bit was something the judges noticed was being passed along by their initial screeners at TAXI.

Thanks for the clarification Ted. No way do I want Unisong to be confused with others who license the name of a deceased musical hero to promote their competition.

 

In spite of any "production" bias we've seen in the past from our screening process, we've been diligent in making sure all of our awards have been based on the song and not how well it was arranged, performed or recorded.

 

Of course, we've received a batch of complaints through the years on how we could have the nerve to award a prize to a "sloppy demo."

 

You can't please everyone.

 

Really though, one of the most rewarding things about working for Unisong is discovering great songs and writers. I can honestly say that the best stuff out there isn't necessarily what you hear on the radio.

[deranged]

Right. Sorry for the confusion and the misguided accusations, but the post was a response to mine about the JLSC. Or so it seemed. Onward.

[miroslav]

I'm planning on submitting one to the JLSC...and now I guess I'll also be submitting something to the Unisong contest too.

 

And...I'm a firm believer in going for the "produced" version.

 

Yeah...a good song can come across with just and acoustic guitar and vox...

...but, if it's not an "acoustic guitar and vox" style of tune...

...then it may not come across as well as a more produced version.

 

Many songs are defined by a specific arrangement/production.

 

Besides...if you are seriously going to compete against thousands of other songwriters...then it's a bit unprofessional to try and submit a poor strum-n-sing-along demo and expect it to "shine through" against work that was well crafted.

I think that when you do a full production, it just demonstrates your own conviction and intent a lot better than if you just slap something down 1-2-3.

[Tedster]

Originally posted by miroslav:

Besides...if you are seriously going to compete against thousands of other songwriters...then it's a bit unprofessional to try and submit a poor strum-n-sing-along demo and expect it to "shine through" against work that was well crafted.

And yet, it can work both ways. I've heard some producers like raw tunes, because it allows them to picture the finished product like they'd like to have it.

 

The other thing...there was a video clip on the web a couple years ago...you see a mic stand with a Neumann...and a stool with a Martin leaning up against it. You hear a few clunks, doors opening, etc...and Neil Young walks in. Picks up the Martin. Plops cans on his ears. Sings a tune. Takes the cans off. Sets down the Martin. Leaves the room. Perfect.

[Sean Eldon]

Originally posted by miroslav:

Besides...if you are seriously going to compete against thousands of other songwriters...then it's a bit unprofessional to try and submit a poor strum-n-sing-along demo and expect it to "shine through" against work that was well crafted.

I think that when you do a full production, it just demonstrates your own conviction and intent a lot better than if you just slap something down 1-2-3.

i've got some problems with that entire paragraph. first off, i did say that i'd be recording the song for real, and not with midi drums and bass, before submitting it. next, songcraft has nothing to do with what equipment you're using. a good song is a good song. and lastly, even if i were to submit the demo version, it wouldn't be unprofessional of me. i am a professional, in that i make a living off of my music. whether or not i used ten thousand dollars in microphones to record it has nothing to do with that. i am on the road 85% of the year, all with tours that i book myself, in a very professional matter.

 

love,

eldon

[Tedster]

Sean...

 

Miroslav's comments were not directed at you. You started a thread about the JLSC...and it took a life of its own from there, with comparisons between the Unisong contest and the Lennon contest. Miroslav's comments were directed as a comment about the way most (or some) people submit songs to contests, as part of the debate over what Songrytr said about how TAXI had eliminated some poorly produced demos in screening them from the Unisong contest.

 

You are correct about a good song being a good song...and a trained ear should be able to pick up on a good song, whether it was recorded by Arif Mardin at some high dollar studio in L.A. or some teenage kid's basement on a boom box.

[songrytr]

Originally posted by Tedster:

You are correct about a good song being a good song...and a trained ear should be able to pick up on a good song, whether it was recorded by Arif Mardin at some high dollar studio in L.A. or some teenage kid's basement on a boom box.

Amen.

 

You gotta be able to sing it in the shower.

 

[shniggens]

So, would it be necessary to copyright my song before I mail it in? Or can we trust the coordinators of the contest? How do you get a song copywrited - melody, lyrics, etc? Do I need to have the melody written out to copyright it?

[songrytr]

Speaking on behalf of the Unisong contest:

 

It's not necessary to copyright your song before entering. We're all on the up and up around here.

 

However, if you're going to be sending your stuff around it's always good practice to do the paperwork. You can get forms and instructions here:

 

US Copyright Office

 

Now go get your music out there!

 

[Barandine Vondenger]

Originally posted by songrytr:

Originally posted by Tedster:

He's not talking about JLSC...he's talking about the Unisong contest. And, the "produced" bit was something the judges noticed was being passed along by their initial screeners at TAXI.

Thanks for the clarification Ted. No way do I want Unisong to be confused with others who license the name of a deceased musical hero to promote their competition.

 

In spite of any "production" bias we've seen in the past from our screening process, we've been diligent in making sure all of our awards have been based on the song and not how well it was arranged, performed or recorded.

 

Of course, we've received a batch of complaints through the years on how we could have the nerve to award a prize to a "sloppy demo."

 

You can't please everyone.

 

Really though, one of the most rewarding things about working for Unisong is discovering great songs and writers. I can honestly say that the best stuff out there isn't necessarily what you hear on the radio.

I wish you luck in giving out the prizes.

I would NEVER send money to a song contest. Folkes all over the WORLD have told me they "like" one or more of my tunes.

I've sold a couple of ceedees and given many away.

Music is SO subjective and folkes are so finicky that to say this song is better than that song or this tune is more pleasing to "the ears" is too personal and way too iffy. .

I can use alliteration and othre tricks to FOOL the listener into believing they LIKE my music and in fact many do while not knowing exactly why they do.

I believe that this contest is geared to making money for the promoters and to seperate hard-earned money from desperate wannabees.

I do my live shows and folkes ALWAYS ask after this song or that and I know that while not everyone likes all my music, enough NORMAL everyday folkes appreciate what I do enough to let me know by playing my music in their cars and home stereos and comeing to hear my live shows. .

Fok a contest.

save your money to buy lessons and equiptment.

Fok contest promoters.

you wanna know if your music is any goode?

Put it online(for free) and just see if folkes clonk and or clank. then play out and see if folkes wish you to come back.

I ain't getting rich nor do I have my phone ranging off the hook, yet folkes ALL OVRE THE WORLD are shareing my music.

No contest helped me to do that, just solid relateable tunes for regular folkes.

I write for me, to suit me.

Fok everyting else.

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Tedster:

Sean...

 

Miroslav's comments were not directed at you. You started a thread about the JLSC...and it took a life of its own from there, with comparisons between the Unisong contest and the Lennon contest. Miroslav's comments were directed as a comment about the way most (or some) people submit songs to contests, as part of the debate over what Songrytr said about how TAXI had eliminated some poorly produced demos in screening them from the Unisong contest.

You got it Ted!

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Tedster:

Originally posted by miroslav:

Besides...if you are seriously going to compete against thousands of other songwriters...then it's a bit unprofessional to try and submit a poor strum-n-sing-along demo and expect it to "shine through" against work that was well crafted.

And yet, it can work both ways. I've heard some producers like raw tunes, because it allows them to picture the finished product like they'd like to have it.

 

........

 

...Neil Young walks in. Picks up the Martin. Plops cans on his ears. Sings a tune. Takes the cans off. Sets down the Martin. Leaves the room. Perfect.

I fully understand about the "leaving it raw" approach...but I think most of the preliminary screeners at these contests are going to pick up on the produced stuff a lot quicker and more often than they will on the raw, strum-n-sing-along submissions.

Of course...if you can get Neil to do it...well, that's a different story!!!

 

And I do agree that if the song really works with just guitar and vox...then that may be just the ticket for showcasing it....

...but IMO, most of that stuff that would fit in the pop/rock/r&b categories is probably going to need some decent production for it to "cut through" all the other submissions.

 

I guess a lot may depend on who is listening and what mood they are in at that moment.

[Robman2]

Old addage from UCLA extension, publishing contracts and such...

 

Never pay anyone to listen to your songs, ligitimate publishers do not do that.

 

However, the track record of being involved, with this group, may have changed that postulate over the last ten years or so.

 

TAXI might be more viable, at least there will be some feedback if you don't make the cut.

[Tedster]

Originally posted by Robman2:

Never pay anyone to listen to your songs, ligitimate publishers do not do that.

 

Right on. Unfortunately, most of 'em probably won't listen to your songs either way.

[songrytr]

Guess we won't be seeing an entry from Arell soon. More power to ya, Arell!

 

Truth is (speaking for Unisong ONLY, of course) we don't aim for much more than paying for the administration of the contest (with some left over for the next year). The larger goal is to keep the Unisong name synonymous with offering opportunities for new writers.

 

Of course, we could licence the name of some beloved late song hero and get a big music manufacturer to furnish a bus to drive around the country. However, we're more into the one-on-one person-to-person fashion we've developed over the last eight years to get the word out about our contest.

 

As a singer/songwriter myself, there's no way I would be a part of something that didn't offer true opportunities. Take a look at our grand prize and compare to the others out there and you'll see where I'm coming from. We've also expanded our entry choices to offer full written critiques...once again to offer a service beyond simply processing and screening a song.

 

Our entry fees are calculated to be as low as possible, while still covering the obligatory costs of fielding and responding to entries around the world.

 

And I'm proud to note that several of our Grand Prize winners (and a number of writers who placed otherwise) have gone on to have some decent success in the biz. Was it all because of us? Certainly not. But we did have a hand in providing access to these people, which is the most important thing (IMHO) for an aspiring writer.

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Sean Eldon:

...i did say that i'd be recording the song for real, and not with midi drums and bass, before submitting it.

 

....................

 

next, songcraft has nothing to do with what equipment you're using. a good song is a good song.

Just like to point out that I did not bring up equipment...you just did.

 

Sean,

 

I was talking about production...and that the demo that had the "produced" sound in most cases, is going to win over the majority of strum-n-sing-along demos.

 

I agree that a good song is a good song...but...that ain't all there is to it...otherwise, if you believe that's all it takes...

then why bother re-doing and polishing up your demo?

Why not submit it just like it isif it's only about "the song".?

 

IMO...good production isn't about using expensive equipment to record.

Production is about discovering and creating the best vibe of the song.

The composition is one part...the performance another...the arrangement a third...

...and the production is the task of bringing all of these crafts together, and then extracting/finding/creatingthe heart and soul of the song.

 

The equipment...the engineering...

...those are just the tools...

...but, good tools get the job done better than shit tools...

...so, you can't ignore them either.

 

That said...I think a lot can be done in today's project studio that use to be only possible in a high-end pro environment.

 

So...you are right about wanting to re-do your demo and polish it up before you send it out. As it stands, even if it is a good song...I don't think it shines enough to really catch anyone's ear or stand out enough against the possible thousands of other submissions...

many of which will have that polished, produced sound.

 

Hey...best of luck to you...

...but of course, I will be rooting for my own submission(s)...

[Tedster]

Heck, despite my own distaste for making a "contest" out of it...I guess I feel lucky.

 

Tell ya what, I'd much rather blow 30 bucks, or even 60 (30 to each contest) on songwriting contests than lottery tickets. At least with the contests I have a small (very small) hand in the outcome, in trying to make a quality submission. With the lottery, I have no hand in the outcome whatsoever.

 

What the hell, I'm in!