Lee Knight Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I decided to try Carnare Star Quad to make up some new balanced cables. The end results, after many re-trys is a buzzing cable with clear radio reception! Here's what I did. Please tell me where I've gone wrong. Shield twisted and tinned, soldered to pin 1. The 2 white leads twisted together, tinned, and soldered to pin 2. Ditto for the 2 blue leads, soldered to pin 3. I just resoldered a whole balanced patch panel with standard wiring with no issues, so I think I must be doing something wrong with the doubled up leads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Nope, you got it right. Sounds like you either cold soldered something or have some major RF issues in your area. PS it doesn't matter if you reverse the white and blue, as they are identical conductors. Just make sure the shield is on pin 1. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Knight Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 Cool... thanks. The thing is I don't have RF issues at all. Except with my special Star Quad Super Duper anntenae I've created. I re-soldered the thing 4 times with different brand ends. I suck! Perhaps the cold solder joint is happening when I bind the leads of like color together. Any advice on how to get that union happening correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mayock Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I have found a few tools to be very helpful soldering. http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=64-2991 these things are really nice. I also have a hemostat that helps too. http://www.themayocks.com Hear The Mayocks on Rhapsody and Itunes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Knight Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Tim Mayock: I have found a few tools to be very helpful soldering. http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=64-2991 these things are really nice. I also have a hemostat that helps too. I really DO suck. I bought the Helping Hands and have been using it. Thanks Tim. Maybe I'm exposing too much of the hot and cold wires between the plastic and the connector because of twisting the 2 together. I'll try to trim it more tightly. I suck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paully Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by Lee Knight: I decided to try Carnare Star Quad to make up some new balanced cables. The end results, after many re-trys is a buzzing cable with clear radio reception! Here's what I did. Please tell me where I've gone wrong. Shield twisted and tinned, soldered to pin 1. The 2 white leads twisted together, tinned, and soldered to pin 2. Ditto for the 2 blue leads, soldered to pin 3. I just resoldered a whole balanced patch panel with standard wiring with no issues, so I think I must be doing something wrong with the doubled up leads? >>>>>> Lee, If the back of your PB uses TRS 1/4" plugs, make sure the tip and ring are oriented correctly to XLR pins 2 and 3. Try reversing at the plug. No good? I've had problems using doubled wires for a single connection; balanced and unbalanced.. It shouldn't matter, but on long runs.. No good? For later orientation, black is hot(2), and white is shield(3). The females of most XLRs provide a way to jump(short) ground pin 1 to the chassis ground. IE, make 4 connections inside the XLR plug; pin 2-hot, pin 3-shield, pin 1-ground, plus short pin 1-to XLR case. Try that, but ONLY at one end; either the output or the PB input. Not both. One more thought. If you're connecting equipment, and the AC power supply cable is 3-pin going into the wall, try a 2-pin adapter, without attaching to house ground. Good luck, Paul WUDAYAKNOW.. For the first time in my life, I'm wrong again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Knight Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 Oh, sorry. The Patch Bay reference was just to point out that I can solder. That's done and works fine. I'm just working up mic cables, XLR to XLR with the doubled lead (Star Quad) cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 And you say other (Whether homebuilt or manufactured) mic cables work fine in the same situation? Any chance you can show us some pictures. It does sound like you've wired this correctly. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Knight Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 I don't have server space, or whatever it is you need to post pics. I'm going to take another stab tonight. Then I'll go buy some regular Belden and all will be well. These new-fangled modern leaps forward! Durn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Here's a rather ovbious question, but did you do a continuity test on the cable? Perhaps there is a break in the cable somewhere that you cannot see. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 In the shield, I'd guess. As for server space, you have all the space you could possibly want for this application. Go to http://www.imageshack.us/ . You don't even have to register unless you want to be able to keep track of your images online. They'll let you upload as many images as you want, free, so long as the images are smaller than 1mb. (Not hard for images optimized for the net.) And a year after they've been last accessed, Imageshack will automatically erase them. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Is there bass in the caR-R Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Here's my 2 cents... After stripping and twisting the like- colored ends, "tin" the splice with solder. Heat the conductor, not the solder. Once you have a light, shiny coat of solder on the conductor(s) clip it off at the right length for your connector with a good wire cutter. This will give you a nice, clean end to work with. Now solder it to the connector- Heat the terminal on the connector, not the solder. Now undo all the soldered joints, and put the XLR jacket on the cable! Repeat. Yes, there's bass in the caR-R-R-R-R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabney Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 hi Lee Knight, I've got hundreds of feet of Canare Star Quad and no RF problems. All home-made. Here's how I do it. For XLR connectors I use the new no-screws Switchcrafts. The soldering iron is a temp-controlled Hako, and the solder is Kester 44 eutectic (goes from molten to solid almost instantly - so less chance of cold solder joints). The biggest pain for me is combing out the shield without too much shedding. I score the outer jacket so that the silver of the shield is not visible. Then I pucker the shield and nibble the 'proud' section using a pair of dykes, working my way around the outer jacket. I slide off the 1/2 to 3/4" or so of outer jacket and use it to push in the shield a little bit before discarding it. I'll then comb out the shield starting at the very end while rolling the cable on my work table. The secret is to not comb out too much at first. It gets easier as it gets closer to the remaining jacket. I then separate the shield at a point aligned with the printing on the jacket and twist the shield wires (the arbitrary separation point is optional, but it helps when using cables in pairs). If there is too much shedding I snip the end and start again. For the blue and white-coated wires, I use a #6 pair of Kleins. My experience has been that I get my best results using the 26 AWG slot on the white wires and the 24 AWG slot on the blue wires. There does seem to be a difference in the feel of the two different colors. If you haven't used the Kleins recently, a half dozen or so practice runs on some excess wire will help in adjusting your touch. I strip about 3/16" and then twist the respective colors together (2 to 4 twists will do). After that I tin the twisted end lightly with solder. I then cut the shield to the length of the twisted pairs and tin it lightly. I use an old tape duplication box and plug the XLR into it. Then I tin the three receptacles on the XLR. I use 'helping hands' to hold the cable and then solder, one by one - testing with a tug after a count of five or so. Since you have soldered a patch bay, most of this may seem old news to you, but maybe somebody else can benefit. I am curious about what you are connecting. If you have built the cables correctly, it may be that the capacitance or inductance of the Star-Quad could be an issue. Is this for a mike cable or a line-level interconnect? How long is the cable? Is one or more of the devices involved high impedence? I use the Canare Star-Quad for all sorts of things, but it is - first and foremost - microphone cable. please visit www.johnabney.com - free music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbo_Tangent Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I've heard of star-quad for 1 Gb aerospace & military applications of Ethernet, but what advantage is there to be had for using it on a microphone? Does it do any better than regular ol' XLR shielded triple or shielded pair? and if so, why? Phil Tangent Studios http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Tangent2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabney Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 hi philbo_Tangent, I think the theory is that the geometry of the windings can reduce cross-talk and interference. Except for some phono-cartridges, you're not likely to find many things operating at a lower level than a ribbon or dynamic microphone. I use the Canare star-quad because it is affordable, fairly easy to strip (once you figure out how to deal with the dense shield) and solder, and it is flexible and supple. Sounds good too. please visit www.johnabney.com - free music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kantola Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Star-Quad is excellent, especially if are working close to video, lights & dimmers or just want to make sure your mic cables are never the source of a problem (which makes this thread so interesting...) The twisted pair balanced design is very immune to noise as is, and with the standard shield around it makes a great microphone cable. The manufacturers would have all the technical details, but I tell you it works! All my mike-cables are self-made star-quad. Also Canary but mostly Mogami. In 15 years, haven't had a single mike-cable failure! That's what I call a good investment. Pays off in more efficient studio time. Good soldering skills is a must for any audio engineer (unless you can afford to hire one). It's not difficult at all, once you get the basic idea (like don't "paint" with the solder) and pay attention to cutting and stripping your cables to the right length. Preparing the cable for soldering is more than half the job. Oh, and one more thing, for me there is only one brand of connectors that I like. Easiest to work with, and the quality is great. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by philbo_Tangent: I've heard of star-quad for 1 Gb aerospace & military applications of Ethernet, but what advantage is there to be had for using it on a microphone? Does it do any better than regular ol' XLR shielded triple or shielded pair? and if so, why? Using pairs of each color results in far more (for lack of a better term) inductive-surface area. Otherwise, this helps ensure the noise that is induced into the cable is more precisely equivalent on each conductor. When the signals are rectified at the next input, this yields a finer cancellation of the induced noise. Incidentally, if you choose to use star quad for unbalanced cables, you're better off creating two white/blue pairs and umbrella shielding the connections. (That is, the - pair should be soldered at both ends with the shield connected at one end only. I'll see if I can find a better explanation of it from a reputable source. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Knight Posted June 24, 2005 Author Share Posted June 24, 2005 I haven't had a chance to revisit my disaster as I'm prepping for a session this weekend. Thanks for all the ideas. This is for standard balanced mic cable, to answer a question above. I love the idea of using an on connection box as a means to hold the XLR while soldering. I suspect my problem lies in to much bare wire as I'm not used to twisting the 2 together then soldering to the connector. I'll re-try this week and I'm sure all your suggestions will pay off. This is amazing to get such quality advice by simply asking. Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicd Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Um, hopefully this is useful... Number one rule (for me) with soldering: Neatness. I built a studio once and let my partner solder some of the XLR connections on the studio boxes. He did such an incredibly sloppy job, that not only did I have to redo every connection, but I had to clean off all the dripped solder. I call this the "dirty dishes theory" Do a crap job on the dishes once, and nobody asks you to wash them again. Be obsessively clean with wire stripping and soldering and you won't have to go fix it later. Number two rule: Test with volt/ohm meter. The meter will tell you if there's a short or break in the cable or solder connections. Magic Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 If you don't have an old, useless piece of equipment to use as a connection box, it's worth the money to make a box or plate that can be held in place using surface mount connectors. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Unless you've striopped it back so far there's bare wires sticking out the connector, I seriously doubt that's your problem. Did you do a continuity test? I'm betting the cable has either a break on the pin two lines or the shield that you can't see. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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