Music Mixing - The Short Story - How I feel about it.......

[Tedster]

Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe:

While I CAN mix with just a mouse, it drives me crazy not to have a board - or at least, some controller surfaces in front of me... I want to be able to ride those faders, swell things up, slap the mutes... IOW, PLAY the mix. IMO, that brings an element of real time interaction to the music... somewhat like a conductor directing an orchestra - that you just don't seem to get with single elements being adjusted and tweaked one at a time with a mouse. At least I don't. Of course, that may just be because I'm an old (well, middle aged ) fart and I'm used to that old school way of doing things, but I really think there's a musical benefit to that sort of interaction; when the engineer "plays" and "performs" the mix.

BINGO!!!

[Curve Dominant]

posted by Tinderarts:

Celebrate live music and those who can play! Without them, recording music is recording computers for the most part.

I agree with this - to an extent. Let me explain that:

 

I've been finding some amazing live musicians and vocalists to record in the Philly area, and keeping the DAW tricks "out of their way" is a priority for me when producing their recordings. The better the performance, the less I want to do to it in the mix. And when the performance is uniquely brilliant, I want to do practically nothing to it in the mix, but just let it be heard.

 

But there are exceptions:

 

I just mixed a traditional jazz quartet, and Pro Tools really saved the day. I didn't record it: It was recorded on an old Roland VS 880 by one of the band members, one instrument at a time, very dry sounding tracks with little to no ambience. GREAT performances, but terribly dry sonics.

 

The drummer and keyboardist are very good friends of mine (I gig with them occasionally), and they asked me to take these recordings and "do something" with them, so they could get gigs doing the traditional jazz quartet thing, which they are VERY good at.

 

I listened to my dad's Blue Note and Verve vinyl LPs a lot when I was a kid, so I had an idea of what the result should sound like: warm, smooth, and like the whole ensemble was playing together in one room.

 

One of the things I did to achieve this, was to create a compression "mask" of the mix. I didn't want to compress the dynamics out of the mix with a compressor on the mixbus. So instead, I sent the whole mix through a vintage compressor plugin, and set the compressor to positively crush the mix. Then I blended that highly compressed mix very subtly with the uncompressed mix. That trick right there warmed up the mix immensely, while preserving the natural dynamics of the ensemble. The drummer loved the effect of this, because he always hated it when studio engineers compressed the ensemble on the mixbus, and this technique eliminated the unwanted effect of that while providing the pleasing effect that you can get with compression.

 

The Pultec EQ plugin warmed up the DI'd electric keyboard nicely.

 

The DigiRack 4-band EQ allowed me to remove some unpleasant buzzing on the upright bass (which was actually a mic being overloaded on certain notes) without disfiguring its overall sound.

 

And a room reverb plugin on an aux channel, lo-pass filtered and discreetly utilized, lent an overall ambience to the ensemble.

 

The result really did remind us of what those old Blue Note LPs sounded like: warm, smooth, and like the whole ensemble was playing together in one room.

 

In that case, the computer really came through and helped us serve up the music right, like it should sound, like it does in a live room. That's how I feel about mixing music: To be creative with it, sometimes to the end of getting it back to where it really always was in the first place.

 

Because a recording is not reality. No recording is positively realistic.

 

Mixing provides a chance to recreate a percieved realism which captures the vibe of the live performance.

[Bruce Swedien]

TinderArts sez-------->Celebrate live music and those who can play! Without them, recording music is recording computers for the most part.

 

Brucie sez-------->Absolutely!!!! I would take it a step further and say that ---> Celebrate live music and those who can play, because without them, recording music would be dull as Dog-Doo!!!! You can forget about the reference to computers.

 

You see, I am a very lucky dude, I have done a zillion hours of music recording with those who can really play, and it was most definitely a celebration!

 

One of my first assignments at Universal Recording in Chicago in 1959, was to record 10 albums with Oscar Peterson, Ray Brown and Ed Thigpen in big, beautiful Studio 'A'. These incredible recordings were released on the 'Verve' label by Norman Granz and were known as Oscar Peterson's 'Composer Series". They were indeed a celebration of wonderful music, and I am very proud of being a part of them!

 

Or, how about The Count Basie Band? Those Cats could definitely PLAY! Or, how about Duke Ellington? Those Cats could definitely PLAY! Or, how about The Stan Kenton Band? Those Cats could definitely PLAY!

 

I could go on and on.... Trust me, those sessions were all a celebration!

 

Bruce Swedien

[lrossmusic]

Originally posted by Bruce Swedien:

....One of my first assignments at Universal Recording in Chicago in 1959, was to record 10 albums with Oscar Peterson, Ray Brown and Ed Thigpen in big, beautiful Studio 'A'. ...

Bruce Swedien

Talking about starting at the top and working your way up. Incredible career man! Congratulations and thanks for not being a snob. It's almost surreal that we are actually communicating with you directly like this and that you are so down to earth and sharing. Every now and then it hits me and I just shake my head and think - this sh&* is really happening. I'm sure I share the sentiments of the whole gang here when I say many more blessings to you Sir.

[Bruce Swedien]

lrossmusic sez------->I'm sure I share the sentiments of the whole gang here when I say many more blessings to you Sir.

 

Brucie sez--------->Thank you!!! You are a true gentleman. And thanks to the whole gang, as well....

 

Bruce Swedien

[Martin Kantola]

Bruce has spoken: Therefore, it follows that music mixing has to be entirely instinctive and intuitive. To be working on a piece of music, and then having to stop the creative flow, to think through a technical function, is absolutely impossible for me.

If we return to this part of your post, please let me try to analyze what you are saying from a imagined designers' point of view. Some of it is very obvious, but that's how my brain works

 

1. what you want is full access to all channels and all their respective funtions when you are mixing. Definitely no scrolling menus or playing with mice. A clear layout you can work with blindfolded.

 

2. all these functions should be automated, so you can save, copy and edit your work.

 

3. the audio processing quality should not be compromised, even when 1-2 are fulfilled. This also means that you should be able to pick the EQ etc. of your choice, be it analog or digital, but I suspect analog still has a strong advantage here.

 

4. at the moment, a good old analogue console does the best job. Not 100% reliable and convenient, but sounds great!

 

5. one conclusion would be that today nobody really builds the ultimate tool for mixing at the moment.

 

 

I refuse to believe that you have chosen your current tool only for sentimental or monetary reasons. I also refuse to believe that you are the only one thinking this way.

 

Especially from my live-mixing experiences (I only work live with a completely acoustic group with soundscapes far beyond simple amplification) I have noticed how bad I feel about doing concerts when they stick what I call "Nintendo"-consoles under my nose.

 

At times, when we really kick off as a group, it's a very organic thing, everybody's interacting with eachother and I'm the one playing the mixer, part of the music. The console is an extension of me just like an instrument. Before, live mixing other bands often left with an unsatisfied feeling because I wasn't up there on the stage taking part in the music. I know how it feels after a good gig for a musician, and nowadays I can reach that behind my knobs and buttons (if I can find them quickly enough).

 

 

Martin

[olhhyperback.com]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant:

I just mixed a traditional jazz quartet, and Pro Tools really saved the day. I didn't record it: It was recorded on an old Roland VS 880 by one of the band members, one instrument at a time, very dry sounding tracks with little to no ambience. GREAT performances, but terribly dry sonics.

What really would have saved the day would have been some technical glitch that forced them to actually play together at the same time into one mike. Otherwise it isn't traditional and it most certainly isn't jazz!

 

Don't get me wrong or take this personally, you were absolutely right to do whatever it takes to please your client but what a perversion of American musical art. The only saving grace is that it's a near perfect example of what's wrong with music today!

 

It also points up the fact that REAL mixing, mixing consoles and the recording of actual PERFORMANCES are all directly related. Consoles are all about not having to look at the controls and responding to what you hear. Very few, if any audio manufacturers have ever understood what a console is really about or how it's really used.

[Bruce Swedien]

Bob Olhsson sez-------->What really would have saved the day would have been some technical glitch that forced them to actually play together at the same time into one mike.

 

It also points up the fact that REAL mixing, mixing consoles and the recording of actual PERFORMANCES are all directly related. Consoles are all about not having to look at the controls and responding to what you hear. Very few, if any audio manufacturers have ever understood what a console is really about or how it's really used.

 

Brucie sez-------->(From one Swede to another!) Yes, yes, yes!!! Exactly!!! On the money!!!! RIGHT!!! Definitely!!!

 

The human being is primarily a visual animal. Hearing is a secondary sense for us. I have found that to eliminate visual distractions is a big help in recording and mixing music! The best mixes that I have done are ones that I did with the lights almost off!

 

I also don't think that we can make meaningful music mixes while lookng at a computer screen! Or looking at anything, really!

 

I have always felt that my recordings and mixes should be In this World, but not Of this World. I don' think that can be done without minimizing the visual diversions in the studio....

 

I am appalled by how often I have been invited into a control room, and the first thing that I notice is that the recording crew is watching a ball game on the TV while they THINK they are recording or mixing!

 

Amazing, isn't it????

 

Bruce Swedien

[Bill Roberts]

I got one for you Bruce. (actually two)

 

The hand is quicker than the eye..and we hear at Mach one. The fastest recorded hand as about 1/5th mach.

 

 

Also...flicker rate on film happens below 20 frames per second. (meaning motion is not fluid) It also happens that 20Hz as about the lowest frequency most people can hear as a "honest tone"

[Curve Dominant]

posted by Bob Olhsson:

quote:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Curve Dominant:

I just mixed a traditional jazz quartet, and Pro Tools really saved the day. I didn't record it: It was recorded on an old Roland VS 880 by one of the band members, one instrument at a time, very dry sounding tracks with little to no ambience. GREAT performances, but terribly dry sonics.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

What really would have saved the day would have been some technical glitch that forced them to actually play together at the same time into one mike. Otherwise it isn't traditional and it most certainly isn't jazz!

That's quite a judgemental statement you've made about a recording which you haven't even heard, Bob. And more than a tad ignorant, I might add. Which planet have you been living on in the last 5 years or so? Have you not heard about the disappearance of the recording houses of your age? Or the fact that analog tape is no longer manufactured? How the fuck do you suggest musicians make decent recordings today? Let's fly you and the band and myself all out to Albini's place for a week...oh! I forgot. WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO PAY FOR THAT??!!! You? No? OK, then, what was it you were saying?

 

Don't get me wrong or take this personally, you were absolutely right to do whatever it takes to please your client but what a perversion of American musical art. The only saving grace is that it's a near perfect example of what's wrong with music today!

You sound eerily like my racist Texan grandfather talking like that. The kids are alright, Bob. Take a deep breath, have a cocktail.

 

It also points up the fact that REAL mixing, mixing consoles and the recording of actual PERFORMANCES are all directly related. Consoles are all about not having to look at the controls and responding to what you hear. Very few, if any audio manufacturers have ever understood what a console is really about or how it's really used.

Which makes the absence of a console altogether seem like the best of both worlds.

 

If it was all about the music, you would listen first, and then judge through the prism of gear choices later. MUCH later.

 

I hope I never get that old.

[olhhyperback.com]

There's almost nothing cheaper to record than traditional jazz. Any high school gym works just fine. Set up a stereo mike, move the players around to get a balance and hit record. It indeed doesn't require a console but it also doesn't require a studio and most certainly doesn't require Pro Tools!

 

Overdubbing everybody is at best the long way around and that's assuming they can play and they have lots of studio experience. Because of the genre, I can't imagine doing all overdubs being anything other than GROSS overproduction.

 

I am indeed very prejudiced against overproduction. I believe it's a lot of why a lot of the younger audience is yawning at today's music.

[Martin Kantola]

Reading the "Curve Dominant Technical Page" I can't help reacting to some of the statements. Don't get me wrong, I fully respect someone with an original vision, so keep it up! I'm sure you don't mind me bugging you a little, this forum is for discussing things, right?

 

Now, you're saying that:

 

The tube gear accurately reproduces the sweet harmonic overtones of your music, and the digital recording media accurately records that sound.

I simply don't understand this. Either you intentionally use tubes to generate distortion with even order harmonics to give the sound a certain character, or then you use tubes to "accurately reproduce" or "best translate" or "faithfully capture" the sound. Which one is it? Both ways are more than acceptable as long as it serves the music, but it seems you mix them up here.

 

My second question:

 

Recording levels "hot" in digital is not only unnecessary, but rather really bad sounding. Even if the red clipping lights on the digital input meters don't register clipping, the audio may still be clipping on output due to the reconstruction filters in the digital-to-analog stage at playback, if the recording input is very close to the clipping level. This is because the reconstruction filters re-draw the amplitude of the audio at a higher level than is represented in the processing stage. The digital distortion that results in that approach is a very un-musical sound, and it is precisely that flawed approach to digital audio which leads analog audio engineers to believe that is "the digital sound" or "the Pro Tools sound."

This is the first time I've heard a theory like this, fascinating! There are many issues with digital audio, but high level performance is normally not even among those that come up for discussion...

 

SOLUTION:

We record and mix audio at conservative input levels, leaving plenty of headroom for the output reconstruction filters, thus avoiding the nasty sounding artifacts which the status quo audio community tends to associate with digital audio.

If you're saying that what you are doing to "fix" the digital sound is simply recording at a lower level, then I seriously doubt you have ever properly listened to, read about or experimented with digital audio... Or, perhaps I don't understand your point at all. Please explain.

 

Martin

[Martin Kantola]

Oh, and mind your language, there are grown-ups reading this...

 

Martin

[Curve Dominant]

posted by Bob Olhsson:

There's almost nothing cheaper to record than traditional jazz. Any high school gym works just fine. Set up a stereo mike, move the players around to get a balance and hit record. It indeed doesn't require a console but it also doesn't require a studio and most certainly doesn't require Pro Tools!

Bob,

 

I'm flattered to see that you are taking cover from your previous post with this redundant blather of a qualification.

 

As you know, the recording situation was not my jurisdiction in this case. Tracks were brought to me to mix, to make something of. This is a MIXING thread, in case you didn't notice.

 

As for high school gyms and stereo mics: I will put the Philadelphia music community on notice that His Olhsson-ness expects no less. Thanks in advance!

 

Overdubbing everybody is at best the long way around and that's assuming they can play and they have lots of studio experience. Because of the genre, I can't imagine doing all overdubs being anything other than GROSS overproduction.

Bob,

 

Overproduction? You've been living in a dream world, Bob, or your old world.

 

Try Ghetto production. Do you actually know any working jazz musicians? These cats have so little time and money, it was a work of incredible genius and resourcefulness that they managed to record these tracks in the first place!

 

As it turns out, they are such in tune with each other, that they were able to record their parts seperately, knowing how the others would interact. You underestimate modern musicians when you assume otherwise. You need to get back to the streets, Bob, and get a grip on how modern musicians have adapted to these changing times. You like to complain about how the sky is falling, but you should listen to these kids first before you pass judgement on them.

 

I am indeed very prejudiced against overproduction. I believe it's a lot of why a lot of the younger audience is yawning at today's music.

You are indeed very prejudiced. "Overproduction" has nothing to do with that prejudice. Here on the mean streets of Philadelphia, we have A LOT LESS to work with than you did in your heydays at Motown. But we're doing our thing anyway. We have music, we have soul, we have ambition, and we are not looking back. We use what we have and we move forward with it. Get with it, or get the fuck out of the way.

[Quarryking]

Originally posted by Bruce Swedien:

Martin Kantola sez------->Leonardo da Vinci tried to keep his hard-earned knowledge secret, writing notes in mirrored letters.

 

Brucie sez------->I do not believe in secrets because we all bring a great deal of ourselves to the work at hand. I have always thought that if we have to keep those things secret. then they are not really ours. That may sound a bit strange but that's the way i feel about that subject.. I have often been admonished by artists for talking freely about what I do.

 

Brucie the Viking!!!!

Have noticed there are folks that play their cards very close to thier chest..that is don't let out anything, don't share any tips....etc...

 

A good deal of others are happy to share and give to those are that searching.

 

Have realized that the types that don't let anything out are the ones that are scared that if they share too much, they might be over taken itself...atleast that's how it seems.

[StoneinaPond]

I've got a secret to share with everone, but I forgot where I put it.

 

And since it's a secret, nobody else knows where I put it.

 

[Martin Kantola]

Hey Eric Vincent,

 

when you calm down a little, would you mind answering my post too? I'm very curious by nature, and a firm believer that there are always new things to learn (for me, in this case!)

 

Martin

[StoneinaPond]

Originally posted by Martin Kantola:

Hey Eric Vincent,

 

when you calm down a little, would you mind answering my post too? I'm very curious by nature, and a firm believer that there are always new things to learn (for me, in this case!)

 

Martin

Mr Vincent is a belligerent, defensive individual who, unfortunately, believes his own PR.

 

He's good at PR and perhaps you can learn a little of that from him. He is also good at turning on people who he feels belittle him, whether that is the case or not.

 

He is reasonably accomplished, but views himself as far superior to what he really is.

 

That's my take, for what it's worth. Not much, I imagine.

[Martin Kantola]

Well,

 

here's his golden chance to prove you wrong then by properly answering me

 

Many blessings to you Yorik, take good care of my dear friend Eva, she's in NYC this week, says the air is soft and the men look interesting over there...

 

Martin

[StoneinaPond]

Originally posted by Martin Kantola:

Well,

 

here's his golden chance to prove you wrong then by properly answering me

 

Many blessings to you Yorik, take good care of my dear friend Eva, she's in NYC this week, says the air is soft and the men look interesting over there...

 

Martin

Well, all I can do is take care of her through the ether. I will certainly do that, although I don't know how much our powers really extend in that direction.

 

Yes, the air is soft, and she has arrived at the best of seasons as far as New York is concerned.

 

As to the men looking interesting, I was not aware that she had already seen me....

[sign]

Eric V is a small guy who has the balls to offend a fine guy like Bob Ohlsson, but I have yet to see he has the balls to offer his apologies to anyone he has offended and insulted so far.

 

He won't respond to difficult questions, he just wants to go along with the big guys. Oh yes, he can be very funny too, search this forum for Dick Spamalot, but that's rare, most of the time I find him arrogant and annoying.

 

I have heard great recordings done by Bob Ohlsson and Bruce Swedien, I have yet to hear a great recording done by mister Vincent.

 

I'm sorry, but that's how I feel about the guy.

 

Respect is something you have to deserve, right?

[Curve Dominant]

here's his golden chance to prove you wrong then by properly answering me

What was the question? Did it have something to do with mixing (the subject of the thread BTW), or am I being trolled again?

[Curve Dominant]

sign,

 

You had absolutely nothing to contribute to this thread until you saw an opportunity to troll for The Curve.

 

Actions speak louder than words.

[sign]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant:

sign,

 

You had absolutely nothing to contribute to this thread until you saw an opportunity to troll for The Curve.

 

Actions speak louder than words.

Eric, I know who you are, you're an open book to me.

 

You owe Bob an apology and you should pay respect to guys like Bob, instead you offend him.

 

Sorry, but I'm Dutch you know and the Dutch don't go around bushes, you should have known that by now.

 

That's my contribution to this thread, like it or not.

[My World]

If I may add...

 

...from an artist's point of view...

 

...from someone whose fingers have nearly frozen from playing street corners at 4am in snowy winters...

 

...and from someone who has struggled with acoustics, jazz, composition, circuit design...

 

...there is a camaraderie among a certain "type" of musician...

 

...and I specifically use the word "musician" instead of "artist"...

 

...it is this that cannot be explained...but it is this that Mr. Olhsson and Swedien are talking about...

 

...and if you feel the need to contradict it, particulary in so vicious a way...

 

...then you may never understand...

 

...and might I add...

 

...it has little to do with the budget allocated for a project...

 

...and it has little to do with whether it was created by a "poor" band or a "rich" band...

 

...or whether in Philly or Motown...

 

...but as for mixing...I know in my heart of hearts that this same passion exists...

 

MW

[Anderton]

Okay, everyone, time out. This started off as a thought-provoking thread but, as sometimes happens on the net, things are taken defensively and reacted to offensively.

 

There are ideals to which we aspire, and practicalities which we must accept. Sometimes the two line up and that's great. Sometimes they don't.

 

I have had wonderful recording experiences that led to wonderful mixing and mastering experiences. I've also had the "uh...can you fix this?" kind of jobs, and y'know, I do the best I can.

 

I'm sure Eric does the best he can with the material he does. We all do. I can't imagine anyone here saying "Well, I really don't care what it sounds like, I'll just see if I can get it done quick, and cash the check before they realize it sucks." So, I don't question his sincerity.

 

But I also don't question the experience of a Bob Ohlsson or a Bruce Swedien. When they talk, I listen. I don't always agree with the details, but that doesn't matter. As it so happens, in this case I'm 110% in agreement with Bruce about having a smooth-running tech situation so your intuition can come through...a subject I've written about a zillion times, particularly with regard to the physical construction of the brain, and how it processes stimuli. But if I disagreed, that wouldn't alter my respect for him.

 

Now, Eric works under less than optimal conditions. But really, don't we all, in some manner? Whether it's Bruce being frustrated because he'd hear analog tape deteriorate with each playback, Bob listening to music that sounds like it wasn't recorded by a band but by a bunch of people phoning in their parts, or Eric trying to turn something recorded in a disjointed way into something that sounds more coherent...we all have our issues.

 

I'll praise Eric for wanting to share his solution, but chide him for getting so defensive in a situation where I think he took Bob's comments the wrong way. I've spent time with Bob, and I can assure you, most of what he says is said with a smile, not a sneer. In my experience, he has a dry sense of humor and that's how I took the "just move around a couple mics in a gym" comment. The smile makes that very clear. But you can't see the smile here. Don't assume the worst from people without first verifying you interpreted what they said correctly. There are many places along a transmission line where data can get scrambled.

 

And I think everyone should follow Bruce's example and do whatever is possible to support other people in dealing with those issues. It serves no good to get hot under the collar and debate who did or did not do the right thing. We all try to do the right thing, but sometimes, as we learn more, we realize that what we once thought the right thing was not. It's by listening and keeping an open mind that we improve. One of the things I've always admired about Bruce is that despite his huge level of experience, it informs him rather than rules him.

 

The point of this forum is to inform, not set up rules. There are no rules in this art form, only suggestions. Take what works for you and disregard the rest...but revisit the thoughts you disregarded at some point, because sometimes wisdom only reveals itself over time -- whether it comes from a punk kid with a dream, or a revered elder.

 

I'm here to learn, and I learn something from all of you.

[PBBPaul]

Thanks Craig!

[Curve Dominant]

posted by Anderton:

Now, Eric works under less than optimal conditions. But really, don't we all, in some manner? Whether it's Bruce being frustrated because he'd hear analog tape deteriorate with each playback, Bob listening to music that sounds like it wasn't recorded by a band but by a bunch of people phoning in their parts, or Eric trying to turn something recorded in a disjointed way into something that sounds more coherent...we all have our issues.

Craig,

 

First off, thanks for chiming in on this in your characteristically balanced manner.

 

I tend not to ponder my conditions as "less than optimal conditions." They are to me, simply, conditions. I sincerely enjoy the "problem solving" aspect of this sort of work, and I was frankly honored that this excellent ensemble brought to me this challenge in the belief that I could fix it. I have seen and listened to this quartet of fine musicians in question perform live in clubs and bars in Philly, and I know how that sounds. So being presented with the challenge of duplicating that vibe in the RECORDED realm, where NOTHING is inherently perfect, was a labor of love.

 

It had to be, because there was very little money in it for me, but I care about these guys, they're dear friends of mine, and I want them to get work, and making this recording sound beautiful was going to help them get work.

 

You will simply have to trust me when I tell you that they were thrilled with the results. They have attempted to record in "pro" studios elsewhere in Philly, and they were always really bummed out by the results. Engineers would track them, then throw a compressor on the mix bus, squash the mix, and say, "Here's your recording, pay me now." None of the four were ever happy with those recordings, but they were certainly poorer.

 

The drummer decided to take matters into his own hands, and recorded the ensemble the best way he could: One musician at a time. They all knew their respective parts inside out, so they knew what to play. The drummer did a fine job of recording these parts, and the musicians played them characteristically well. It was in my opinion a highly resourceful thing they did, and it sounded good, but they still weren't happy with the overall sound for reasons obvious to us in the audio industry: It sounded dry, lacking in depth, no "roominess" to it.

 

So the drummer, being a friend of mine, did what friends do: He asked me for help. "Can you make this sound better?" And I said, "I think I can, bring your tracks in here, and I'll work with it." And it was SUCH an enjoyable experience, taking what they did, and fashioning it into what they really wanted it to be. Because it sounds so beautiful, what they did, and seeing them so satisfied with the result was enough of a reward in itself.

 

Which is why I got a bit miffed when Bob posted:

what a perversion of American musical art. The only saving grace is that it's a near perfect example of what's wrong with music today!

 

Bob posted that here, on a public forum, without even hearing what I did! Bob has my phone number, we've spoken on the phone before. He could have called me and asked me to email him this mix, which I gladly would have done, before he passed such a vicious judgement of it on this forum. I'm sorry, but that's fucked up. Bob owes ME an apology for that.

[Anderton]

...but what Bob posted was:

 

<<Don't get me wrong or take this personally, you were absolutely right to do whatever it takes to please your client but what a perversion of American musical art. The only saving grace is that it's a near perfect example of what's wrong with music today!>>

 

He specifically added a disclaimer NOT to apply this personally, even making sure you understood you did absolutely (his word, not mine) the right thing to do what it took to please your client.

 

But you gotta admit that a BIG problem in music these days IS a lack of interaction among players. You can almost HEAR that, say, the guitar player flew in, laid down his lick, and got paid. Now, it's great that your guys were able to get around this because of their intense familiarity with each other and quality musicianship. I am forced to work the same way sometimes with my friends in Germany, I just can't fly there on a whim so I end up singing or playing to tracks and sending them back. BUT these are people I've played with for seven years, we've done a lot of projects together, and I can imagine them sitting in the room with me. So it works out okay, although of course, I'd rather be physically present with them.

 

So I suggest you take Bob at his word and don't take what he said personally, but as a general comment on something that a lot of people feel IS really screwed up about a lot of today's music: A complete lack of rapport and interaction in some musical projects.

[Martin Kantola]

Eric spoke: What was the question? Did it have something to do with mixing (the subject of the thread BTW), or am I being trolled again?

Eric, dig this: I respect a guy with his own well-defined vision of things A LOT. Simply because I think that's how things get done, and also because I'm very much like that myself.

 

Learning more about myself all the time tells me that I need to try to stay open for input and contributions from other people while I'm doing my own thing. The way I see it, it's equally bad to get constantly distracted from your own mission by others, as not paying enough attention to what's happening around you.

 

It's sometimes very hard to balance these two, but as artists, we need both, a firm inner vision and a clear sight. Please note that I'm NOT talking about you, I'm talking about ME here, because I don't know you at all. This part was not about pointing a finger, it was about sharing.

 

Now, back to the topic and my questions, I don't mind repeating them or clarifying.

 

1. are you using tubes mainly to a) accurately reproduce or b) color, sweeten, enhance or smooth the sound coming from the microphones?

 

2. addressing the problems with digital audio, have you also considered other more well known issues such as low-level resolution and linearity, jitter, low-pass filter phase shift, nyquist frequency response restrictions etc. or are you saying that for you things begun to sound right as soon as you started recording at lower levels?

 

This part is about questioning things and statements, hopefully something everybody on this forum can learn from. OK?

 

Martin