Infringement???

[Anifa]

Something that I've been suspecting over the past several months involving the downloads of my personal music has finally came through with a name attached to it. I've mentioned before how my stats jumped and my music file downloads took a steep incline in hits. Before now, the hits for the downloads did not have an individualized "DOMAIN NAME" attached so it was somewhat hard to pinpoint a culprit. There were a few times where the IP addresses that I searched out through the ARIN database revealed a subscription service that allowed members to access "ROYALTY FREE" materials; or so the site claimed... every bit of the music that I have public links to have registered copyrights.

 

With the vast multiples of IP addresses accessing the tunes, there was not enough hard evidence without PAYING a stupid access fee to further investigate if this paid subscription web site was offering up MY tunes as a part of their paid service. Without monitoring it daily while spending hours of researching individual IP addresses; it would have been insane trying to collect enough hard evidence to pinpoint an individual source of direct linking.

 

Now the downloads are direct linked from a site called the "singingfish.com"; a company now owned by AOL.

 

When I went to the site and read their TOS, they appear to offer a FREE service to users surfing the web to download what they claim to be "ROYALTY FREE" music; YET, they do have a FEE BASED service in which they SELL their services to web sites with dynamic capabilities that wish to host their services of providing music to site users.

 

Now, MY TAKE ON THIS.... I don't mind hosting my own materials for "free" download, and I actually welcome the visits, BUT........ when somebody else makes my creativity available as a part of THEIR services.... whether free or PAID for by provision of their fee based software and services to web site owners; I get a little disgruntled about it. AOL??????? WTF??????

 

I know for a fact that this singingfish.com is direct linking to the actual .mp3 files because if these files were being accessed through MY site, the only way they can be found is by going to the actual page that they are embedded into for streaming or download. Whenever one of these pages is accessed from MY site; my log files also show all elements of the page where the file is accessed. These files are directly linked to by singingfish.com.

 

If they wanted to link to the actual PAGE to where I could place links to a CD for sale or something like that, it might not be so bad and might even encourage me to compile a full CD of my own stuff and market it on those pages getting hit heavily. NOT..... They just want to offer up MY COPYRIGHT PROTECTED material, while claiming royalty free ???????????????????

 

I know that I could change the content of file, while keeping the same file name; maybe do a REAL DISS on AOL, the crummy bastards.... BUT... although I'm irritated in the fact that AOL/singingfish are invasive sonofaB's, I'm also flattered that there has been as big of a demand for my personal music as what there has been; I wouldn't want to offend someone that might be a secret fan that accesses my materials possibly on a routine basis. Still, that does not dismiss the fact that my tunes are being hijacked for the benefit of someone else; these jokers didn't even bother to request permission.

 

I know some of the options available to me, but I thought I'd ask what you guys would do first.

 

What to do?

[Phait]

Register copyrights?

[Anifa]

Originally posted by Phait:

Register copyrights?

Are you asking a serious question or just being facetious? YES, I "register" my copyrights in the Library of Congress.

[Phait]

Both? http://www.phait-accompli.com/crap/ph8thumb2.gif

[GY]

"singingfish.com" is linking to your site. Nothing illegal in that. I hear ya though. The problem is... once you publish something on a internet site, you've lost control.

[Anifa]

Originally posted by GY:

"singingfish.com" is linking to your site. Nothing illegal in that. I hear ya though. The problem is... once you publish something on a internet site, you've lost control.

I know that it's not illegal to link to my site; but folks "direct linking" without the permission of site owners subject themselves to some embarrassment if the site owner chooses to do something about it. I don't know if you recall what happened to one of our forum members who got caught up in direct linking to a file for his avatar, to where the site owner switched the content to display a gay Porn Star Avatar. The incident nearly got one of our own permantly banned from these forums; but that was something that someone did because they learned of someone else direct linking to their files without permissions.

 

I'll never do something like that, but I may alter the files just a tad bit to include all of my contact information, while maybe even putting a plug for myself in at the tail end of the files.

 

It just really annoys me that AOL would stoop to those levels; I've lost a hell of a lot of respect for them at this point.

[techristian]

I have the same thing happening with my stuff. A few including singfish are accessing the .mp3s directly.

 

There are a couple things that can be done.

 

1) Put the files in password protected directories. That way you can at least have legit email addresses for each person downloading. ( I haven't done this yet)

 

2) When I realized what was happening, I cut most of my music down to 1 minute "sound bytes" with an audio voiceover that says "you can buy this music at MUSICNIT.COM"

 

3) I have a few low-fi verions of entire songs that are renamed with the name of my cyberband NANOSECOND right in the name of every song. nanosecond_things.mp3 nanosocond_plastic.mp3 At least I hope that some "branding" takes place. So if you find my songs on your hard drive 1 year from now, perhaps this will help you remember where they came from.

 

4) Set up your links so that the end user must type in a CODE which you randomly display on the screen IN GRAPHIC FORMAT. This is becoming commonplace to prevent automated downloads. ( I haven't done this yet either)

 

When I realized what was happening, over 3 years ago, at first I was devastated because it is important to me that the end user at least reads my LYRICS, (by going to the webpage) but I decided to turn it around and make it ADVERTISING by offering sound bytes.

 

You can find most of the direct links by typing your FILENAME into ALLTHEWEB.COM or other search engines such as google.

 

Dan

 

example below

http://teachmedrums.com/nanosecond_things.mp3

[Billster]

To be perfectly honest, what is your goal in having the music available online?

 

Are you hoping to sell it directly as a finished commercial product?

 

If so, you should use a secure server and membership/password access of your own.

 

Or, are you offering some music as a sample of what you can do, in hope of gaining some recognition and wider opportunity?

 

If so, what is the harm of wider distribution if you had no intent of charging for it anyway.

 

HOWEVER, I do not endorse a paid subscription site offering direct links to your free music. If you believe that is happening, change the file names and/or sub-directory on your own site. You should also contact that pay site and tell them if they are going to do that you will investigate your legal options, including recovery of fees.

[Dak Lander]

Do I understand correctly that they are linking to your "free" music froma pay to listen site? I'd change the names of the existing material and link the old names to something that would embarress Singingfish/AOL.

[techristian]

Hi Ani

 

After posting last night. I went to singingfish.com. They have 18 direct links to my stuff. Just type your name or band name into their search engine. Somehow they managed to directly link to some of my oldest REALAUDIO snippets (with none of my advertising) and my REALMEDIA VIDEOS. Now what purpose does it serve AOL to send PAYING customers a PIECE of my music, without telling them how to get the rest of it? They seem to have cut all of the links to my mp3s with advertising, but I did find 1 link to a full length mp3 without advertising.

 

I'd change the names of the existing material and link the old names to something that would embarress Singingfish/AOL.

I guess that it embarrasses them to post to music links with advertising. The volume downloaded from these websites can pull the webserver right down, so make sure that the enduser KNOWS where your website is, at least. Last month, there were 206 downloads of my 5 YEAR OLD music video, with almost no access to the associated webpage. Total bandwidth was over 2 GB for this one file alone.

 

Singing Fish isn't the only one. There are at least 1/2 dozen of these places and they steal links from each other.

 

Dan

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Billster:

To be perfectly honest, what is your goal in having the music available online?...

This isn't the point, Bill. If another site direct links her music claiming it can be used for any purpose, royalty free, then they are committing fraud. The placement of audio or graphic files on the internet does not, for example, give me the right to use if for advertising, whether I'm advertising the sale of a related product or using it for commercials advertising other products or services.

 

Ani could, potentially, find her music in a nationally televised commercial without recieving payment for its' use. Of course, she would have legal recourse were this to happen, but the likelyhood is she'll never know about such infringement because it will probably happen on a local or regional level, outside of her local or regional area.

 

Several astute readers of a photography magazine helped a photographer receive $250,000 for illegal use of his photo. They saw it published by the magazine as a reader submission and remembered it being used for an advertisement in their area. He was completely unaware of its' misuse. Had he not been published by the magazine, the illegal use would not have been discovered. Commercial misuse of photos is taken seriously by the courts and he was awarded the full damages prescribed by copyright law.

 

I don't believe the laws are the same for misuse of copyright audio, however. I don't know what the damages could potentially be.

[Billster]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Originally posted by Billster:

To be perfectly honest, what is your goal in having the music available online?...

This isn't the point, Bill.

I said that in my third or fourth paragraph. Of course it is fraud. Read the whole post.

[Brittanylips]

Originally posted by Ani:

What to do?

Be happy someone's linking to your songs.

 

I don't see anything wrong with this. If you have free downloads, then they're free downloads. If another company charges users to have access to what is essentially a phone book of free music, pointers to sites such as your own, that's their perogative. Be glad your site is included in theirs.

 

Which is to say people pay for their service, for the portal itself, not for your music. Your music is free from your site and from their site or any site that links to your site. It's all good.

 

It would be a different story if you were charging for songs, and another site bypassed your fees. but as it is, it is no different from expecting ISPs that charge for web service (e.g. Comcast, AOL, etc.) to give you a cut if their customers happen to surf to your site and download your free music.

 

Mostly though, congrats on getting the visitors!

 

-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

[Lee Flier]

Yeah I have to agree with B-Lips. Our MP3's have been linked by all the music search engines for ages now. If you make your songs available for free download then that's what it means! Other sites will link to them, including directly. Happens to us all the time, and that's fine if more people are hearing our stuff - that's the point.

 

Just be sure all the meta tag information in your MP3's is filled in and has a link back to your web site, so that people who like what they hear can identify and find you.

[fantasticsound]

I did read the whole post, Bill.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a paid or a free service. If they say all linked audio is royalty free (based on its' free distribution by Ani at her site) then anyone who uses her files have now infringed on her copyright.

 

Ani's intentions in providing her content online, free of charge for listening, has no bearing on whether she's being infringed upon by someone accessing her site and using the content for commercial purposes, knowingly or unknowingly.

[Anifa]

Originally posted by 4-Dak Recorder:

Do I understand correctly that they are linking to your "free" music froma pay to listen site? I'd change the names of the existing material and link the old names to something that would embarress Singingfish/AOL.

Persons doing the listening are not the ones to pay; this outfit offers their services to web site owners who wish to provide access to their database from their own sites.... FOR A FEE Still FRAUDULENT as hell.

 

TeChristian,

 

The other site hosting links to your files may very well be paying subscribers to the services being offered by singingfish.com.

 

I'm real tempted to do a voice .mp3 stating something like this and put the recording in place of EVERY song that I find direct linked.

 

The file you have just accessed is copyright protected material registered in the Library of Congress. This has been illegally included in a database that solicits and claims the works available for download are "royalty free" materials; this is not the case and the site that you have just accessed this file from is committing an act of fraud by claiming the works inside their database are royalty free. If you would like to hear the song that you have just requested by the original artist and the sole copyright owner; you may access the full catalog of her works at http://____________________.

[fantasticsound]

Brittany Lips and Lee

 

That's incorrect. She didn't say they were simply linking her files. From Ani's initial post:

 

When I went to the site and read their TOS, they appear to offer a FREE service to users surfing the web to download what they claim to be "ROYALTY FREE" music

They cannot claim her audio files as "ROYALTY FREE". Just because her downloads are free does not give anyone the right to use them for commercial purposes. Period.

 

If that were true, I could go to any band's website (For example, What The?), download their music and put it in my Budweiser/Ford Motor Company/Coca-Cola/etc. ad without any compensation to the band, the writers or anyone else covered by registered copyright.

 

Many websites allow access to certain files within a folder, but not directory access to that folder. Is there a way to force surfers to access files only through a portal on a particular webpage?

[Billster]

OK, Here\'s Singing Fish Terms of Service

 

The world "royalty" does not appear. Try doing 'find on page' for copyright.

 

You may also read the "copyright" page

Infringement notification

 

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 (the "DMCA") provides recourse for copyright owners who believe that material appearing on the Internet infringes their rights under U.S. copyright law. If you believe in good faith that materials we link to infringe your copyright, you (or your agent) may send us a notice requesting that we remove the material or block access to it. Notices and counter-notices must meet the then-current statutory requirements imposed by the DMCA; see http://www.loc.gov/copyright/ for details. Infringement Notification should be sent to:

 

Singingfish

Attention: Karen Howe

1000 Dexter Avenue N, Ste. 300

Seattle, WA 98109

 

We suggest that you consult your legal advisor before filing a notice. Also, please be aware that there are penalties for false claims under the DMCA.

Or, read the "spider issues" page

 

I don't see where the site managers are hiding from anything.

 

My point is that she is offering free stuff for some purpose, presumably to promote her name, ability, and reputation. If that is the case, the more people that are exposed to her product, the better.

 

Lee Flier is correct in pointing out that you should make sure your meta tags are completed, and direct folks to the true source.

[fantasticsound]

I was going from Ani's assertion that they claimed to provide her content, royalty free.

 

If that's not the case, then she should simply contact Karen Howe at Singingfish to have the links removed unless they link directly to her promotional page.

[Anifa]

I don't see anything wrong with this. If you have free downloads, then they're free downloads. If another company charges users to have access to what is essentially a phone book of free music, pointers to sites such as your own, that's their perogative. Be glad your site is included in theirs.

BL,

 

My works are available "free" for my users to listen to, as well as others that would like to download the materials to their home computers to listen to. I'm flattered that my stuff is cool enough to merit the recognition; especially since the works being downloaded are 100% me all the way through; including my amateurish recording abilities.... an area that I've never reached a comfort zone with.

 

The problem that I have with this whole thing is the fact that the sites linking to my materials are soliciting the works inside of their databases as being ROYALTY FREE. That's a complete lie, because when I give persons the permission to download my copyright protected materials to listen to inside their homes or their cars; that does NOT grant ANYONE permission to use my copyright protected materials inside of commercial works, up to and including the use of my materials as background music embedded in web sites.

 

With this site soliciting the idea that the works contained within are "ROYALTY FREE"; it suggests that these works are available for use on any commercial release or redistribution in any format. THIS IS NOT THE CASE!!!! Had I not given a damn about someone else grabbing my stuff and using it for WHATEVER, I would not have spent the moneys to register my works.

 

It's kind of like this; if I have a party and say, "The front door is open, bring a friend, or bring many, and enjoy the fun"; that doesn't mean that I am providing the okay for some stranger to slip in through the back door to steal all my belongings and pass them out to others for a fee while the attention is somewhere else. Intellectual property is no different than tangible goods; it's theft whenever someone abuses the right of use.

 

These bastards know very well that what they are doing is illegal and they are trying to cover their tracks by placing this little disclaimer on their web site.

 

Spider Issues

There are several ways to prevent our crawler from indexing your site or portions of your site:

Create a "robots.txt" file on your web site to prevent our crawler from indexing your site

 

Add a "noindex" meta tag to your documents

 

Remove the original document from your Web site

 

Host the document on a secure section of your Web site (HTTPS or login)

 

After you have made these changes to the site content or control documents to stop your pages from being crawled, you may still see the pages listed in our databases for some time. The changes will take effect in our search database when the information is updated in our next refresh cycle.

 

Under most circumstances, Singingfish will manually remove sites or pages from the index after a request has been made in writing to marketing@singingfish.com.

[Brittanylips]

Fantasticsound says ----->

 

Ani's intentions in providing her content online, free of charge for listening, has no bearing on whether she's being infringed upon by someone accessing her site and using the content for commercial purposes, knowingly or unknowingly.

 

That's true. However, that's true of anything. They are providing a door, which is legal, and anyone walking through it may be a criminal, which is not their responsibility. Someone could potentially access Ani's site directly and infringe her copyrights. The portal just gives more access. But once you put stuff on the internet, the idea is that you offer it to the world, and hope for as much access as possible, which includes access to bad people.

 

It is no different from someone using the internet for crime and then trying to blame the ISP. The ISP provides access, but is not responsible for the behavior of its customers.

 

Fantasticsound says ----->

 

If that were true, I could go to any band's website (For example, What The?), download their music and put it in my Budweiser/Ford Motor Company/Coca-Cola/etc. ad without any compensation to the band, the writers or anyone else covered by registered copyright.

 

I don't believe that's true. By royalty-free, the site means that Ani is offering her songs to downloaders without requiring a royalty. However, she doesn't relinquish other (commercial) rights.

 

- PL&B

[Billster]

Ani, where does anything say "Royalty free"? Links please. I found no such statement at singingfish.com.

 

Just contact the site and tell them to remove the links from their index, rename or move the files to a new sub-directory, and fix the meta-tags. You could be done in the time it takes to write your posts here.

 

BTW, knowing of such a site is helpful. Ha ha, searched my own name, and they didn't find me yet

[Brittanylips]

Originally posted by Ani:

The problem that I have with this whole thing is the fact that the sites linking to my materials are soliciting the works inside of their databases as being ROYALTY FREE. That's a complete lie, because when I give persons the permission to download my copyright protected materials to listen to inside their homes or their cars; that does NOT grant ANYONE permission to use my copyright protected materials inside of commercial works, up to and including the use of my materials as background music embedded in web sites.

I don't believe that someone downloading your music gains the right to use it in commercial works; on the other hand, you do give up certain rights when you publish for free on the internet (or anywhere). I'm no lawyer, but you'd probably want to consult with one to clarify the dividing line.

Originally posted by Ani:

With this site soliciting the idea that the works contained within are "ROYALTY FREE"; it suggests that these works are available for use on any commercial release or redistribution in any format. THIS IS NOT THE CASE!!!! Had I not given a damn about someone else grabbing my stuff and using it for WHATEVER, I would not have spent the moneys to register my works.

I don't believe that "royalty free" implies that you have relinquished other rights.

Originally posted by Ani:

It's kind of like this; if I have a party and say, "The front door is open, bring a friend, or bring many, and enjoy the fun"; that doesn't mean that I am providing the okay for some stranger to slip in through the back door to steal all my belongings and pass them out to others for a fee while the attention is somewhere else.

That's a good analogy. The thing is, when you post on the net, you really are opening a door and anyone can come in. This other site has made the door a little bigger, but I don't think they've changed anything else. Any rights you used to have, you still have, and any that you don't, you still don't.

 

I don't think the issue is really that the other site says "royalty free," it's that you have to decide whether you want to have a party and leave the door open or closed. As it is, your door is open, and people are coming in, which is great. If you are concerned about unliscenced commercial exploitation of your work, than you really need to shut your door, not the door at the other site.

 

-Peace, Love, and Blips

[Dak Lander]

Normally you're supposed to sign up to have your music posted or linked there. Things may have changed. I searched and there is nothing under DakLander but one under CW Miltenberger and I have no complaints about that one because it's on IUMA. I really wouldn't bitch much about my free stuff being linked to if they first had the link directed to my music page or song link button, not direct, or opened my website when played.

[theblue1]

AOL stooping to a low level?

 

Say it ain't so...

[Super 8]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Brittany Lips and Lee

 

That's incorrect. She didn't say they were simply linking her files. From Ani's initial post:

 

When I went to the site and read their TOS, they appear to offer a FREE service to users surfing the web to download what they claim to be "ROYALTY FREE" music

They cannot claim her audio files as "ROYALTY FREE". Just because her downloads are free does not give anyone the right to use them for commercial purposes. Period.

I know that's what Ani said, but I'm not convinced of it, Fantasic. If that were reallu going on, there would be a class-action suit, no doubt about it. And I'm sure AOL's legal dept knows that.

 

I agree with GY's opinion that "once you publish something on a internet site, you've lost control." It's pretty much true. There is a 'free, share the wealth' mentality on the internet. Don't put anything on the internet that you are not comfortable having spread around, because if people like it, that's what's gonna happen.....count on it!

 

I'd take it as a compliment, Ani.

Make certain that all of your info is tagged on each tune.

You also might add a little sound blurb and the beginning and/or end of each MP3 that briefly gives your name, and your web address, so people can actually hear where they can find out more about you. It's kind of like sonic watermarking.

 

Actually, I've listened to a number of your tunes on occasion, and enjoyed them. I'd like to hear them recorded a little better. Their current state is fine as a demo, but certainly doesn't do them the justice I think they deserve.

[StoneinaPond]

The problem appears to me to revolve around what "Royalty Free" means to the average person, beyond what it may mean legally.

 

In the case of sample CDs that are sold commercially, they are referred to as being RF and can be used in personal compositions up to and involving release for payment.

 

Given that, I would certainly expect that if I paid to use a service that touted RF music, I could use the material in my own for-profit composition or project.

 

Not good for Ani.

[Anifa]

Originally posted by Billster:

Ani, where does anything say "Royalty free"? Links please. I found no such statement at singingfish.com.

 

Just contact the site and tell them to remove the links from their index, rename or move the files to a new sub-directory, and fix the meta-tags. You could be done in the time it takes to write your posts here.

 

BTW, knowing of such a site is helpful. Ha ha, searched my own name, and they didn't find me yet

Somewhere inside of that site I came across the term "royalty free" last night while I was scouring over the site; THAT'S what triggered me. I "KNOW" that I read it from a page accessed while feeding my curiosity as to who was direct linking to my site. I read several pages inside their site, including links embedded from within their pages to other pages not indexed from their main page.

 

Now that I'm re-reading with a fresh mind, I'm not finding the page that set me off. I even viewed several of the videos accessed from the "I'm bored" search while reading the pages last night; lots of commercial adverts included.

 

What I'm finding really strange today is the fact that I can't find the page that allowed me access to the TOS. I didn't access the Terms of Service through the static link on the home page, as I'm doing today; last night I was reading another page that was providing a description of the site and the referred to the TOS (linked as "TOS") from within that page. I can't even find THAT page.

 

What I'm reading today all seems above board and is not offensive to me. I'm now wondering if perhaps there is an alternate back up site that displays whenever the main site is down for maintenance; one that has not been updated or mirrored to the other. I know I've been putting in some long hours lately, but I'm not going crazy; I had no other reason to get all riled up about this without the inclusion of the words "royalty free"

[Billster]

.6 second with Google

 

Here - Marketleap.com, Singingfish Terms & Conditions, item #11

 

11. You hereby grant Reseller a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive license (with rights to sublicense) to use, copy, display, perform, modify and distribute all of the information that you submit in connection with your participation in Reseller's Service and the Singingfish media inclusion service.

Who is "Marketleap"? try the about page

 

About Marketleap

 

Marketleap is a San Francisco based Internet marketing firm specializing in search engine optimization and online customer acquisition solutions. Marketleap's innovative technology, industry relationships and intellectual capital are the foundation for achieving client business objectives online.

 

So, if I read that right, Marketleap works to guarantee your placement in search engine results, and you grant them license to use your mug "royalty free" in their promotions. Consult an attorney, but I think that's what it says. Marketleap appears to be a "reseller" of search engine placement service.

[Anifa]

Thanks for posting that Bill; this is more along the lines of that which I was reading last night... although what I read last night was actually accessed from the URL http://singingfish.com

 

They must have an alternate site that displays while the main is down for any reason. Perhaps a redirect page to a "supposed to be" mirror site.

 

I know that I have something of that nature with my .com site. Whenever you access http://musicbizbuzz.com you will get an identical replica of my .net home page. (well, it used to be identical; I've not updated the .com to display the updates to the .net) Any link that you access from the home page of my .com site will automatically roll you into the inner pages of my .net site. Folks usually do not even realize that they have switched sites.