not Cereal Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 i'm somewhat setup in my new room - a one bedroom apartment. i'm in the living room - this is less than ideal but will have to do for a while. this room is bad. its BAD. its wrong. everything sounds wrong in there. the two biggest issues right now are bass and comb filter. bass - uh, there is way too much bass. i have little near fields and it sounds as though i have an 18" sub pounding away in the corner. my little brain doesnt understand this. i had no idea these speakers could make this much low end. ive never heard anything like it from them before. comb filter - yep, at least one really bad one, probably more. at least i know how to fix this, it will just take some time and a little $$$. i'm going to place some deflectors on the front and rear walls and possibly some absorbtion on these walls also. in my last roof i solved this same issue with two very large sheets of uphosltry rumpled up into patterns on the front and rear walls (these sheets were about 115" by 80") i cant do this is the living room (wife ya know) so it needs to look pro. i cant get over the bass though, and dont really understand why thats happening. my old room had cement walls, this one has drywall. overall everything sounds "phasey", bass heavy, and i cannot generate a near field. other than that everything sounds awesome. seriously - i listened to a lot of stuff i did in the old place and it sounds awesome in the new place. if it were a consumer stereo system i would be done and quite pleased with the sound. but from a mix perspective its unusable. i think the difference is that my old room didnt have reflections whereas the new room does. how this makes MORE bass i dont know, my old room had NO bass, only what came out of the speakers and this is how i like it. i also had about twice the definition in high end at the old room. i really need to not have this stuff where i live. its a huge pain, especially now that i am married. but the place i used to work fell out of fashion for various reasons and i cannot continue to work with those people. this is agravating, because i havent seen a client in about a month because i quit working where i used to, got married, moved (not done moving yet), dont have a mix room yet, and i am short on mics. but on a good note, i jammed last night for the first time in a month. i cant play guitar worth a sh** right now, butter fingers. but it felt good. and yes, i am well readup on ethans pages so i have some basic ideas. somehow this room is amplifying bass rather that cancelling it. my old room didnt do anything for bass. this confuses me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 You need some serious bass traps, and some wall treatment to get rid of those slap echoes and the comb filtering from them. Have you popped into Ethan's forum recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 The drywall creates pockets that resonate when excited with low end, thus your low end issues. As Phil said, you need traps. Lots of options from relatively simple and inexpensive DIY to super big money. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Coaster, are the near fields ported? Perhaps rear-ported? Are they near a wall or (worse) a corner? - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave The Rave Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Coaster, take Phil's advice and pop on in to Ethan's forum, just a few clicks away from here. I did that recently myself. The FAQ and links on Ethan's forum are outstanding. Read the FAQ, check the links and then ask your questions. You'll get short answers if you don't read the FAQ stuff first! I'm in the middle of making tons of bass traps (actually, all frequency absorbers, not just for bass) to go in all the corners of my new studio. At the moment, I have 10 of them made (4'x 2') and have them just stacked up in the two "front" corners (behind the speakers) for now. The room sounds MUCH better already. When I'm done, my room is going to be outstanding! My absorbers are each made from two 2" thick Johns Manville type 814 rigid fiberglass panels (4" thick total, 4' tall x 2' wide). I made wood frames, covered the backs with mosquito netting and the front and sides with some nice loudspeaker grille cloth (made from vinyl coated nylon fibers - tough stuff) that I found at a local fabric store. Cost per 4' x 2' panel works out to be about $64 for me. YMMV. Let us know how you get on. :DTR Cambrian Guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 yes i have read ethans pages even long before they were at this site. yes, the nearfields are rear ported and yes, near a horrid corner. last night i took apart my free-standing gobo's because the felt material surrounding them is full of cigarette smoke and other bad things from where they were before. the felt is in the dumpster, new felt or other material is on the way. anyway these gobo's are almost exactly ethan's corner traps (broadband absorbers) except they have a high-density fiberboard back instead of being open. they are roughly 2' x 4'x 4" each. i took the back off of one and placed it in the corner behind my left nearfield, it goes from the floor to halfway up the wall. this DID make a substancial difference in the bass response, less freq's pop out and less buildup overall just from ONE section of trap, and i have four right now. it also lowered the slaps i am getting to where i cant hear them, but i still get a phasey-sound from the comb filters in the room - similar to one speaker being out of phase with the other. now my plan is to extend the corner traps close to the ceiling in three corners of the room and place some deflectors on the front and back wall (i'll have to build these). also i will likely place some more broadband absorbers on the front and back walls if i can figure out how to hang them without messing up the walls too bad. i think it will work good. so, 1/2 of a corner trap = major improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 If you don't have a good 10' behind you to the back wall when you're seated at the mix position, making that back wall absorbent instead of diffusive might be a better idea. Pull those backs off those broadband absorbers and cover as many corners (wall corners as well as wall / ceiling junctures) as you can with them. Then get someone to help you... sit at the mix position, and have then hold a small, handheld mirror flat aganst various spots on the walls and ceilings. If you can see your speakers reflected in the mirror, you're going to have a slap coming off that wall or ceiling surface that will screw with the sonics at the mix position. Those are the spots you will want to treat with absorbent material. Don't just cover all the walls with foam or cloth covered semi-rigid fiberglass or mineral wool - your room will be too dead that way. Also, by using wood standoffs to raise the acoustic material a few inches off of the walls and ceiling, you can increase the low frequency effectiveness of the material. IOW, if you're using 2" thick semi-rigid fiberglass, getting it 2" or so off the wall surface will increase its effectiveness - especially at the lower frequencies. Finally, get those rear ported speakers away from the walls and corners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anifa Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Eh, see what happens when ya get marr(i)ed; everything starts going to the dogs. You can take the man away from his music, but you can't take the music out of the man. Books by Craig Anderton through Amazon Sweetwater: Bruce Swedien\'s "Make Mine Music" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 you sound bitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anifa Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by not Cereal: you sound bitter. Not anymore... only while I was being controlled, raped of my identity, despoiled of my individuality, deprived of my space, stripped of my pride, alienated, chastised, penalized for having a creative mind, suffocated by possessiveness, and ALL that other good stuff that came along with the ball and chain around my finger. No, I'm not bitter at all now..... I've been divorced (separated) going into my 10th year. Been down the aisle twice and I don't know that I'll ever go there again. You can take the man away from his music, but you can't take the music out of the man. Books by Craig Anderton through Amazon Sweetwater: Bruce Swedien\'s "Make Mine Music" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anifa Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 EDITED for the sake of our DRAMA QUEEN that starts threads about needing a girl to sew his jeans Besides, the thread had already fallen to the back pages anyway before I bumped it to respond to a comment made directly to me. You can take the man away from his music, but you can't take the music out of the man. Books by Craig Anderton through Amazon Sweetwater: Bruce Swedien\'s "Make Mine Music" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Way to ruin a thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted April 21, 2005 Author Share Posted April 21, 2005 wait a minute, i am not the drama queen you speak of. was that boosh perhaps? and besides, i can sew my own jeans, cook, and do laundry. so far i have three broadband absorbers on the back wall/ 2 corners and one on the front corner. this has brought the bass response down to where i can actually generate a decent nearfield. there is still some very mild comb filters/slaps going on that i am aware of but are not so bad now. i plan to fix these but the room is no longer awful, its 90% workable at this point. i guess the reason this room caught me off gaurd is that it is actually the first room ive ever encountered where the physics INCREASED the bass response. nearly every room ive been in (live and recording) has a depth that combines the refections to REDUCE the bass. people try and throw more power at the situation and it gets much worse. the last room i was in was very nuetral and with minor treatment i was able to generate a near field without reflections. so i am on the way there. i really think a deflector would be good on the back wall along with the broadband absorbers. also i may put my futon against the rear wall, it should offer a place to sit and act as an absorber somewhat. amazing what a little fiberglass will do for an out-of-control room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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