mound Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Well, I've decided I have no choice here but to go to Mackie for mixer repairs. I have a CR1604VLZ that I bought used at Guitar Center several months ago. I paid $400 for it, looks in perfect condition, and for the most part it works as expected, but there are two problems I'm having with it: 1. Two of the pre-amps don't seem to work anymore. (very low levels) 2. The right side of it intermittantly loses signal. This is the weirdest thing, like, it works for a while, but after a while I'll hear some slight buzz in the right side and then I lose all sound from the right speaker - all channels, it doesn't matter, it's as if the entire "right buss" loses signal (sorry if that's improper terminology). Sometimes the right mains meter drops when this happens, sometimes it doesn't. To "get it back" I either have to unplug/replug several times, OR, (and I just discovered this one) - crank the volume on something that's plugged into it (my stage piano for example) and hit a big chord loud and fast, at which point the right side jumps alive again after a brief scratchy noise.. in the studio this is an annoyance, in a live situation, it's completely unacceptable. I've tried all configurations, all channels, speakers on mains, on control room outs, different sources, different cables.. even used contact cleaner on all the jacks and on the ribbon cables inside the thing.. problem persists. I'm wondering, who here has sent things back to Mackie for repair? This I'm sure is not under warranty.. am I going to end up paying close to what I paid for it to ship it back and for labor?? any thoughts? thanks -Paul "You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor." -- Ernie Stires, composer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpmiii Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Well, I have a 1604 at Mackie right now. Same problem with the right buss cutting in and out. As matter of fact it should be on its way back about now. Well see, I was told turn around was about two weeks which I was surprised to hear. Most of my experiences are about 4 to 6 weeks. I can't remember what the store thought the cost would be but it wasn't anything huge. I was wondering the same thing with the cost; if it was worth it or not. "I never would have seen it, if I didn't already believe it" Unknown http://www.SongCritic.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mound Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 well now is a good time for me to be able to be without it for a few weeks.. Do you not yet know the cost of repair? Are they going to bill you or something? What about shipping? I assume you had to pay to ship it, and they pay to ship it back? thanks! -Paul "You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor." -- Ernie Stires, composer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpmiii Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Since it's out of warranty I'm sure I'm paying for the shipping. I don't know the cost of as yet I plan to call some time this week since it should be due back by now from what I was told about the turn around. "I never would have seen it, if I didn't already believe it" Unknown http://www.SongCritic.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Unless it's still under warranty, find a local repair shop. the problems you're describing are relatively simple. The channel problem is most likely the preamp chip or insert point, the right buss issue definitely a cold/broken solder point. Both issues would not take more than 60 minutes on my bench. If it's still under warranty then send it to Mackie. their tech support is about the best there is, relatively speedy, totaly customer oriented, and super friendly. I can't say enough about Mackies level of support. I've been a loyal HDR and MDR user for over 4 years, and do beta testing for them as well. They are absolutely top notch. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 I had to send the cpu to my d8b in once. I sent it overnight on a Monday and had it back and running on Friday. Not too shabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mound Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 yup, just called mackie, left a voicemail, they called me back 20 minutes later, told me they don't do mixer repairs anymore, told me the authorized repair shop, it's 10 minutes from my house. even better! I agree, these are likely simple issues to fix. cold solder joint though? wouldn't that prevent sound from coming out the right side at all? why does me crashing a loud obnoxious chord through the thing bring it back to life until the next random moment in time when it goes bad? -Paul "You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor." -- Ernie Stires, composer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 the vibrations will move the wire or part and make a connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mound Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 the vibrations will move the wire or part and make a connectionhmm.. nah, I don't mean actually "Crashing" - nothing is physically moving the mixer when I do this. say I'm playing my keyboard at "5".. playing along.. la la la.. all the sudden, nothing out of the right side.. the mixer wasn't moved or anything, it's 5 feet away from the piano. when it disappears, if I slide the volume in the keyboard up to "10" and play a chord (no slamming or otherwise shaking the room involved) I hear a quick "scratch" and the right side comes alive again, and will stay alive for a random amount of time.. (from 5 minutes to an hour.. it's different all the time) I dunno, it could very well be a broken solder joint.. I'm not knowledgable of these things, I just found it odd that it took a hot signal to bring it back "You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor." -- Ernie Stires, composer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 The high current of a peak signal causes the cold solder joint to arc enough to amke a contact that permits signal flow for a time, until the current and voltage levels drop low enough that the resistance of the cold joint drop the signal again. It could also be the insert point, try a squirt of Craig De-oxit D-5 and exersice the connection by plugging and unplugging a jack in the insert point several times. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mound Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 which insert point? I'm talking about the entire right side of the mixer, regardless what input(s)I'm using, or which outs (mains or CR) I'm using. I have used contact cleaner on all of the inputs (sprayed, plugged/unplugged a few times.) You're all probably right about the bad solder connection.. I'll just bring it in. Thanks! "You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor." -- Ernie Stires, composer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mound Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 well I brought the mixer to the shop Mackie told me is the authorized repair place. The guy said that "it's almost never cold solder joints" and that the problem is 99% likely the ribbon cables.. He mentioned "around $175 for the cables, and probably another $175 or so for labor".. this was a rough estimate, he's going to call me with an actual quote. my question is - I asked him what was involved with changing the ribbon cables, he said you pretty much have to take the entire thing apart.. here I was thinking it was just a bunch of 24pin (or whatever) connectors.. Is anybody here familiar with the process of replacing all of the ribbon cables? Does what this guy told me sound legit? Is it something I could do myself with new cables in hand? I am perfectly comfortable with a soldering iron. I mean really, I bought this mixer used from GC for $400 less than a year ago.. $350 to fix it doesn't seem too reasonable to me. thoughts? thanks -Paul "You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor." -- Ernie Stires, composer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 the insert point for the right main out of course regarding the right buss issue, and the associtated insert point of the channel that is suspect for that. Ribbon cabling is an issue, but generally because it has simply come loose, not becuase of breaks. the ribbon cable as I recall runs across the bottom of the mixer and is easy to replace. You need to only revome the bottom panel. You can see it from there, across all the modules. You could simply reseat the ripbbon cable, or better yet give it a spritx with Craig Deoxit D-5 on both ends and reseat, ensureing the connections are clean again. However I seriously doubt that is the issue, especiallyw tih the channel. I've fixed many of them, and if the ribbon came off one channel it would hav ecome off several. Also, you'd get metering to the input leds from the mic pre showing signal coming in, which I believe you said you were not. Most likely the preamp IC has blown out. I think they are socketed, so a no soldering replacement. the IC is probably under $5. The right side issue could be ribbon making a bad connection, but I doubt it. the jump startability is not typical of ribbon issues, but is for a dirty insert point or cold/intermittant solder point, both fo whcih the Mackie boards are known for. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.WOW Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 I had a 1604 and had to send it back three times for the same thing about the "ribbons". They would repair it and 4 weeks later it would break again. I gave up on Mackie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mound Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 the ribbon cable as I recall runs across the bottom of the mixer and is easy to replace. You need to only revome the bottom panel. You can see it from there, across all the modules. You could simply reseat the ripbbon cable, or better yet give it a spritx with Craig Deoxit D-5 on both ends and reseat, ensureing the connections are clean again. However I seriously doubt that is the issue, especiallyw tih the channelThat is what I thought, and this is what I have already tried.. a couple of large ribbon cables, they snap open and closed simply.. I opened them, cleaned them, snapped them tight.. this repair guy literally said that the entire board has to be taken apart, as if there were somehow lots of ribbons connecting all of the internal components to each other.. "at least a 3 hour job" is exactly what he said. I know for certain it took me all of 8 minutes to open the thing up and clean the ribbon cables that I saw, but I don't pretend to know what is deeper inside the thing.. Maybe I should just use it for what it works for and save for a new one "You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor." -- Ernie Stires, composer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Sounds like you're getting a snow job, what you see is all the ribbons, and it takes just that long (about 5 minutes) to completely replace them. Any tech worth their wage could completely rebuild one of those mixers in 3 hours. I suggest you find a more trustworthy shop to do your repair. You can simply meter out the ribbon cable to see if there is a break somewhere to confirm that it is or is not the problem. Also, try wiggling the ribbon while running signal through the right side. if there is a break (it would be near where it connects to the master module) you'll hear it cut in and out, and you can jsut order the ribbon directly from Mackie parts. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mound Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 actually, I think I also only cleaned one end.. where they connect together between the board and the "pod" - do they snap onto the main circuit board somewhere? yeah, when this guy calls me back with the estimate I'll tell him I'm going to just take it back. "You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor." -- Ernie Stires, composer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Yes the ribbon will conect to each channel strip and the master module. clean both ends with Craig D-5, using only a slight amount, then seat and reseat the connectors several times. Definitely don't use that guy, he's got ripoff written all mover him. If you're at all handy, and it sounds like you are, you can fix this yourself. Diagnose the ribbons as described, clean the insert points (do all of them while you'r ein the groove) and inspect/resolder solder points on the main right output connector to the PC board. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mound Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 Definitely don't use that guy, he's got ripoff written all mover him. If you're at all handy, and it sounds like you are, you can fix this yourselfYup, went back to pick it up.. I ended up chatting with the guy for a while.. I mis-understood him the other day, he said $75 for the cables, not $175.. still at least $175 for labor. He does seem to run a pretty honest shop, I can definitely do this on my own.. and have plenty of ribbon cables of the right sizes and testing equipment in the lab at work.. I tell ya though, his shop was like a mackie graveyard.. Stacks of 1400 amps, mixers of all sizes.. he said "yup, probably 90% of these it's the ribbon cables." what's up with mackie using cruddy ribbon cables? "You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor." -- Ernie Stires, composer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 ribbon cable was really designed for data, not audio, and it can break due to excessive stress at the connectors. However in all my years inside elctronics, I've only once seen a Mackie mixer that failed due to a ribbon issue, and that was quickly solved by simply reseating the ribbon connector, which has worked it's way lose. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mound Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 where02190 - that's interesting you say that. So this local repair guy who had a room full of mackie gear that needed repair, when he said that 90% were probably ribbon cables, do they just need to be tightened/cleaned? Should I just use a multimeter to test continuity on each band to test the ribbon itself? what if one is broken? there is nothing "proprietary" about these right? or if I'm picturing it right, is it one large cable with one large plug on one end, that splits off into a smaller jack for each channel strip? (i.e. something that I'd be better off ordering from Mackie) thanks -Paul "You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor." -- Ernie Stires, composer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 If indeed it is the ribbon, your best bet is to order a replacement from mackie parts dept. Yes you can ust use a continuity meter to test it, however this may or may not show intermittant connections. give each end a cleaning with D-5, the with the board open run signal, wiggling the mults to attempt to recreate any intermittant connections. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mound Posted October 9, 2004 Author Share Posted October 9, 2004 success! I tell ya, the guy didn't lie when he said "I have to basically take apart every screw and nut" - I did too.. but once I did, (and had to pull off every knob from the front as well) I was able to easilly gain access to BOTH ends of all the ribbon cables (the 5 minute "open the back" gives access to only one end) - a bit of contact cleaner and plug/unplug to work it in, tightened it all back up.. I also noticed a "white haze" sorta thing covering certain areas of the solder/trace side of the circuit board.. sprayed contact cleaner all over that too. Not sure if that mattered or not but what the heck.. Cleaned out all the contact points and looked for bad solder joints (didn't see any.) Checked continuity on all ribbon cables (tedius, but what the heck, I was in there and had a meter handy) Put it all back together.. FINALLY! all my pre-amps work and sound exactly the same.. all scratchyness is gone from both sides, and so far (a 2 hour practice session) no loss of the right side! no parts replaced.. only tedious effort was unscrewing everything and putting it all back together.. All in all? a 2.5 hour effort, and my mixer seems as good as new, and I saved close to $250 according to this guys estimate. Thanks! -Paul "You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor." -- Ernie Stires, composer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
where02190 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Way to go Paul!!! And beyond that monetary savings, you've got that "I FIXED IT MYSELF" confidence and swing in your step!!!!! Now, go buy yourself something kewl with the savings!!!!!! Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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