Caevan O’Shite Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 I'll be looking for a high-gain but still dynamically responsive distortion pedal that can turn an already cranked and overdriven vintage Marshall-like tube-amp into a late '80s/early '90s 'modded Marshall/Soldano/"red knob" Fender The Twin/Dual Showman firebreather. (Yes, a "red knob" Fender The Twin that I once had gave the overall best distortion I've ever had the distinct pleasure of, and remains a benchmark for me. They have a bad rep, and weren't all that durably made, but I could dial-in OUTSTANDING clean, overdriven and distorted tones with mine. Robben Ford seems to have liked them, as well.) Several of my amps have vintage '60s/'70s Marshall overdrive tones and feel NAILED to the back wall, and then some. Rather than getting yet another amp, I'd like to be able to hit them- already cranked and overdriven- with a pedal that can turn that awesome, classic sound into that of late '80s/early '90s high-gain tube-amps like those I cited above. I have and love an old Radial Tonebone Plexitube, which just might be up to this task when I start experimenting with it and those amps, twiddling knobs and switches to dial it in. However, the Plexitube isn't very dynamically responsive- it barely even begins to 'clean-up' with the guitar's volume-knob turned way down, and doesn't vary as much as I'd prefer with picking-dynamics. Maybe that's just going to be part-and-parcel of using any high-gain distortion pedals, but I have hopes... 4 Quote Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Most my experience with vintage Marshalls was at Rainy Day where they had an old 50 watt head I liked. Would mostly use a TS or MXR 10 band to tighten the bass. Distortion was cool where you want to retain or add bass. Distortion will typically reduce responsiveness because they clip too hard. Everything comes out a chopped square wave. Can you get your hands on a Pantheon? It’s a Bluebreaker based OD but has a ton of gain on tap. The tone controls are additive. I never take the bass above 10:00. I don’t recommend buying one blind. It’s too fiddly for many due to all the surface switch options … it’s sort of a Wampler thing. … Maybe another higher gain Bluesbreaker clone. The easier way is to clean up the head and get an Amp in a Box distortion but that ruins what the amp does best. 3 Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 It sounds like you’re looking for enough OD/Distortion to do Motley Crue or Iron Maiden without necessarily getting into Meshuggah. Off the top of my head, if I were reaching into my Tub o’ Pedals to get those kinds of results, I’d probably opt for a: ThorpyFX Gunshot Empress Heavy Emma PisdiYOUwat VisualSound Jekyll & Hyde V2/TrueTone Jekyll & Hyde V3 2 Quote Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 11 hours ago, CEB said: Most my experience with vintage Marshalls was at Rainy Day where they had an old 50 watt head I liked. Would mostly use a TS or MXR 10 band to tighten the bass. I have a fantastic germanium 'Rangemaster Treble Booster' type for just that! More for classic/vintage sounds, though. I love alternating between that and a fat sounding OD/Boost for 'Karate Chop' and 'Big Fat Full Corpulent MORE!' tones! By the way, my three Marshall-like amps are 22 watts, 28 watts, and 7 watts each... The 22w and 28w heads even have special 'Master Voltage' circuits to even further rein-in the pummeling volume. 11 hours ago, CEB said: Distortion was cool where you want to retain or add bass. Distortion will typically reduce responsiveness because they clip too hard. Everything comes out a chopped square wave. Yeah... I know I'm asking a lot of a Distortion pedal here... My Plexitube just might wind up being as good a candidate as any here... 11 hours ago, CEB said: Can you get your hands on a Pantheon? It’s a Bluebreaker based OD but has a ton of gain on tap. The tone controls are additive. I never take the bass above 10:00. I don’t recommend buying one blind. It’s too fiddly for many due to all the surface switch options … it’s sort of a Wampler thing. … If I think it sounds enough like what I want here judging by demo videos, I'll pull the trigger to try one, and maybe sell it if I decide it isn't what I want after all. And fiddly options and bells and whistles don't bother me- I usually like that as a means to f8nd what I want to hear and feel! 11 hours ago, CEB said: The easier way is to clean up the head and get an Amp in a Box distortion but that ruins what the amp does best. Indeed! Not what I want to do! 2 Quote Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 5 hours ago, Dannyalcatraz said: It sounds like you’re looking for enough OD/Distortion to do Motley Crue or Iron Maiden without necessarily getting into Meshuggah. Off the top of my head, if I were reaching into my Tub o’ Pedals to get those kinds of results, I’d probably opt for a: Empress Heavy Oooh, I like that Empress Heavy... Quote Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 Yep. All dirt boxes are compressors. If you are already pushing a tube amp into compression then it compresses more. 2 Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Psmith Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 First thing that comes to mind is the Wampler Sovereign, which I happen to have on hand, thanks to some very kind friends! Lots of tonal options unhand, or underfoot, as it were, but it's not altogether a Plug-&-Play device; you'll want to some serious knob-twirling to dial in the sound you want. Next up would be the Keeley Filaments - Another one with a wealth of tone-shaping options, and a row of mini-toggle switches. I have to offer a vote for the RI Boss HM-2W, the Waza Craft Heavy Metal. I had one of the originals, way back when, and honestly, it delivered a LOT of crunch, with a simple four-knob layout. Not the most dynamically responsive pedal, but unmistakably Metal. 2 Quote "Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King http://www.novparolo.com https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 47 minutes ago, Winston Psmith said: First thing that comes to mind is the Wampler Sovereign, which I happen to have... I really like the tone of the Sovereign, but I seem to perceive it as more of a fat, warm, sassy overdrive than an out-and-out distortion, "YMMV"... ? Perhaps a small fine-line of a differentiation... And to clarify, I'm not necessarily seeking 'Metal' sounds, though again there may be a rather small fine-line of a differentiation there. A pedal that serves-up Metal toned distortion might also serve me well... How well do you think that Sovereign might do at Soldano and "red knob" Fender Twin/Dual Showman distortion and tones? Wampler previously had a SLOstortion pedal (referencing Soldano SLO amps), and Soldano also came out with a Soldano SLO distortion pedal. Both seem to be pretty good candidates for my wants and needs here, as does the currently still in production Wampler Pinnacle Deluxe II (or 2, or V2, or... ?)... 1 Quote Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 The thing about the Pinnacle (pre version 2) and the Sovereign. (Especially the old Pinnacle) They don’t like hot humbuckers. They sort of crap out. I think it’s the sag circuit. I and enough people complained that Brian fixed it in version 2 with a selector switch. My impression has been you use less hot pickups and more vintage wounds. You may be fine. Brian was aiming at a Warren Haynes wooly tone with the SLOstortion. I can’t say what will work. Brian usually designs his circuits with clean pedal platform in mind. They may work great. I go to the clean channel on a RectoVerb with pre-gain usually at 10:00 to use these. The cleans on Boogie Rectos are pristine clean. They were based on old Fender cleans. I’m a Wampler guy but have never played them through a British amp pushed to breakup so I’m not much help. 3 Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 I've played through LOTS of pedals. Wanting high gain distortion AND dynamic response is difficult - high gain distortion flattens dynamic response every time, it is part and parcel of high distortion. I have a Tech 21 Para Driver EQ that has a Blend knob so you can mix high gain distortion with your clean tone instead of getting just one or the other. I haven't tried anything else like it. Another option might be to run an AB pedal and have one clean amp and one filthy one. Blending clean for dynamic response with high gain for distortion seems to be the only solution. 2 Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 1 hour ago, CEB said: ...Brian fixed it in version 2 with a selector switch. I noted that! 1 hour ago, CEB said: My impression has been you use less hot vintage wounds. You may be fine. Actually, my Les Paul has particularly hot humbuckers, the stock ceramic 500T and 496R pickups that came in it. I actually like them quite a bit, having taken some time to adjust their heights and that of their adjustable pole-pieces, along with putting DR Pure Blues 11's on it. But I know what you mean about them not always getting along with everything! 51 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said: I've played through LOTS of pedals. Wanting high gain distortion AND dynamic response is difficult - high gain distortion flattens dynamic response every time, it is part and parcel of high distortion. I have a Tech 21 Para Driver EQ that has a Blend knob so you can mix high gain distortion with your clean tone instead of getting just one or the other. I haven't tried anything else like it. Another option might be to run an AB pedal and have one clean amp and one filthy one. Blending clean for dynamic response with high gain for distortion seems to be the only solution. Kuru, CEB, and others- note that I don't have any expectations of much softer-to-louder dynamic volume range coming from the amp and speakers, or the output of whatever distortion pedal I hit my amps with- it's primarily that I'd enjoy having the character of the pedal's distortion and tone respond and change at least a little to picking-attack and adjustments of the guitar's volume-knobs. I'm sure that the sum total of the gain of the pedal and the amp will yield quite a bit of compression and limiting. A large part of the reason that I rarely use compressor pedals- seems like there's almost always quite a bit of inherent compression occurring at multiple points! 2 Quote Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 1 minute ago, Caevan O’Shite said: Kuru, CEB, and others- note that I don't have any expectations of much softer-to-louder dynamic volume range coming from the amp and speakers, or the output of whatever distortion pedal I hit my amps with- it's primarily that I'd enjoy having the character of the pedal's distortion and tone respond and change at least a little to picking-attack and adjustments of the guitar's volume-knobs. I'm sure that the sum total of the gain of the pedal and the amp will yield quite a bit of compression and limiting. A large part of the reason that I rarely use compressor pedals- seems like there's almost always quite a bit of inherent compression occurring at multiple points! True. I've been gigging with a Peavey VIP 1 amp recently - 20 watts "TransTube" and comes with an 8" speaker. I made a new baffle and put a 10" Peavy Scorpion speaker in it, a little monster. I've been running the amp at that perfect point where with the guitar cranked up there is a smooth, mild distortion with compression. It sings but not dirty. Back off the volume and it doesn't get much quieter but it does clean up. Still, some compression. Played a gig last night with drums, 2 guitars, saxophone and 2 singers. Amp sounded great in that blend. My point was that the more distortion you add to your sound, the less dynamic range you will have. Distortion is a form of compression, knocking off the peaks to create more harmonics and compression. It is what it is. 2 Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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