DC preparing a bill that goes after Tik Tok

[ElmerJFudd]

Congress is writing a bill that would force Tik Tok to change ownership.   Supporters in the house suggest US citizens privacy is at issue, Chinese ownership leaves Americans open to manipulation through the platform.  Obviously there are bigger US/China issues muddled in the effort.  Tik Tok claims they do not share user information with the Chinese government and would refuse if asked.  🤷‍♂️ TikTok says the apps success is a source of revenue for millions of companies and individuals and it’s the US governments efforts that are infringing on users’ rights.   
 

Thoughts?  
 

We know UMG is not a fan.  Is Congress bowing to corporate frustration with the TikTok platform? 
 

 

[Anderton]

For what it's worth, my son is a specialist in cybersecurity. He says "Dad, most social media is a problem but whatever you do, avoid TikTok."

[David Emm]

The problem with China is real enough, but the more central issue is, well, US. Social media reflects us back at ourselves and its been pretty gagsome. Even back in my Usenet days, it was prevalent. One reason I gave it up was visiting alt.poetry and seeing people slash at one another as if there was a Sicilian blood debt hanging over the place. The weirdly volcanic signal-to-noise ratio gave me hives. 

 

If I had kids, especially a daughter, I'd fight them to a standstill over smart phones. They'd get a simple flip phone and live with it. Part of parenting is steering them away from toxic things. They'd holler about it, you bet, but if you explain that its all calculated to sell you your own left hand and 98% dishonest at its core, they'll at least respect that you drew lines and provided structure. That's a tough hurdle, but their brains deserve your TLC. 

 

In Harpo Marx's autobiography, Harpo Speaks!, there is mention of ten permanent house rules being taped to the fridge. #10 tells the tale, I think: "Anyone found guilty of scratching the felt on the pool table or abusing a pet will be docked a month's wages." Some rules rock. 

 

We no longer teach civics consistently and even less so, the art of civility & its benefits. There has to be a middle ground between being a puckerbutt & playing a Redd Foxx party record for your Baptist granny's lunch group. The day I can offer a fix, I'll let you know. There's a line between being wryly amusing and just being a blithering drunk. I tend to fall right on it face first, so I can't judge too harshly. 🤨 

[ElmerJFudd]

57 minutes ago, David Emm said:

The problem with China is real enough, but the more central issue is, well, US. Social media reflects us back at ourselves and its been pretty gagsome. Even back in my Usenet days, it was prevalent. One reason I gave it up was visiting alt.poetry and seeing people slash at one another as if there was a Sicilian blood debt hanging over the place. The weirdly volcanic signal-to-noise ratio gave me hives. 

 

If I had kids, especially a daughter, I'd fight them to a standstill over smart phones. They'd get a simple flip phone and live with it. Part of parenting is steering them away from toxic things. They'd holler about it, you bet, but if you explain that its all calculated to sell you your own left hand and 98% dishonest at its core, they'll at least respect that you drew lines and provided structure. That's a tough hurdle, but their brains deserve your TLC. 

 

In Harpo Marx's autobiography, Harpo Speaks!, there is mention of ten permanent house rules being taped to the fridge. #10 tells the tale, I think: "Anyone found guilty of scratching the felt on the pool table or abusing a pet will be docked a month's wages." Some rules rock. 

 

We no longer teach civics consistently and even less so, the art of civility & its benefits. There has to be a middle ground between being a puckerbutt & playing a Redd Foxx party record for your Baptist granny's lunch group. The day I can offer a fix, I'll let you know. There's a line between being wryly amusing and just being a blithering drunk. I tend to fall right on it face first, so I can't judge too harshly. 🤨 

Sure. Phone use in general is a problem like an addiction. I think worse for young people who did not move most of their lives without it.  
 

But the cat is out of the bag and not going back in. The phones and the social media that makes them most addictive - it would indeed take laws to limit access.  Like cigarettes or alcohol.  

[Anderton]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

But the cat is out of the bag and not going back in.

 

That depends. The direction of social media is downward - more crass, more mean-spirited, people bailing on Facebook, getting scammed, the "X" fiasco, etc. TikTok is king of the hill right now, but that too will fall prey to what happens when you open something up to the public and let anyone in. 

 

I don't know if it's related, but Musicplayer keeps gaining people. I'm sure part of it is because so many cool folks hang out here, but it also might be because the forum structure has been around for so long that it's being perceived as a breath of fresh air after being out of fashion for so long.

[KenElevenShadows]

7 hours ago, Anderton said:

For what it's worth, my son is a specialist in cybersecurity. He says "Dad, most social media is a problem but whatever you do, avoid TikTok."

 

What is it about TikTok that he feels is particularly problematic, out of curiosity? Is it damaging by simply installing the app and opening an account? What data are they mining?

[ElmerJFudd]

6 hours ago, KenElevenShadows said:

 

What is it about TikTok that he feels is particularly problematic, out of curiosity? Is it damaging by simply installing the app and opening an account? What data are they mining?

Name addesss phone age sex ss 

passwords 

location

 interests for targeted marketing

 friends and family 

habits 

likes dislikes 

political beliefs 

susceptibility to influence 

susceptibility to blackmail

 

i don’t think TikTok is unique in this.  It’s because they are owned by a foreign adversary which cause for alarm.  But you’ll note the is little effort to protect us from Facebook or any US based social media because those are used by US corporations and politicians.  

[KuruPrionz]

I don't use Tik Tok, I don't post on Instagram (I do surf the new stuff quickly once in a while but... meh). I am currently trimming down my Facebook friends, my new rule is that I have to know you in person to add you as a friend and even that might be questionable. I've considered just deleting it entirely. Music Player Network seems to be "safe" for the most part and so does Model Mayhem. 

 

I prefer to interact with actual humans in the real world. I am probably missing something, everybody else is too. We cannot be everywhere, we cannot know about everything and we cannot know everyone. I'm doing ok. 

[Stokely]

I agree with David Emm's post.   Other than well-moderated forums like this one, the online world is extremely toxic and gross.   My kids seemed to have dealt with it ok--better than I would, I recall hearing my oldest calmly talking down some screaming morons while playing Overwatch--but man when creeps like Andrew Tate are heroes to throngs of young boys and men there is a problem.

Social media in general is a blight.  I'm convinced it's our Krell brain machine.   All the monsters of the Id let loose from the safety of your basement.  The worst is the conspiracy and misinformation peddled by digital snake oil salesman.   We are in a post-facts world.

My wife grew up in China and let's just say that like a lot of ex-pats, she remains pretty....patriotic.   She sees this Tik tok stuff as nothing more than an anti-China racist move.  And I think there is definitely a xenophobic element to it.   Hell half the country thinks brown rapist hordes are pouring over the border to take our women and jobs.   I personally feel that I wouldn't trust the CCP further than I could throw it, and even if it's all on the level do we really want to be making money for such a bunch of authoritarian shitheels?   Let's just say this isn't a discussion I'll have in my house, been there learned the hard way that certain subjects just aren't great for dinner table talk  

[ElmerJFudd]

Like all things that motivate human beings at the top of the food chain - these issues have largely to do with money and power - control of resources and control of people.  

[CHarrell]

3 hours ago, Stokely said:

And I think there is definitely a xenophobic element to it.   Hell half the country thinks brown rapist hordes are pouring over the border to take our women and jobs.   I personally feel that I wouldn't trust the CCP further than I could throw it, and even if it's all on the level do we really want to be making money for such a bunch of authoritarian shitheels?  

 

Frankly, it's precisely this last part that makes me think there's a strong xenophobic element at play here, because lord knows we've practically all already signed away so much to these big tech conglomerates no matter what part of the globe we're in. I don't even have voice mode or whatever installed on my phone and after speaking or texting Spanish for a half hour or so, I suddenly start getting YT ads in Spanish. If any legislation was to be passed for the sake of citizens' privacy, you'd have to have something waaaaaay more extensive in its scope than an app that pissed off certain politicians a few years ago.

[Doerfler]

https://apnews.com/article/tiktok-ban-bill-support-congress-china-data-f1ec5b720bb68884c6423c62f314dcff

[Anderton]

21 hours ago, CHarrell said:

 

Frankly, it's precisely this last part that makes me think there's a strong xenophobic element at play here

 

Well, as always the situation is more complex than it appears on the surface. 

 

I'm sure xenophobia plays into it. However, in 2021 the China Internet Investment Fund bought a 1% share in TikTok. Normally, that wouldn't mean much in terms of control, but it's a China Government Guidance Fund, which is a government-meets-private group whose aim is to further China's industrial and political policy goals. It has influence on the companies with which it's involved that goes beyond that 1%, like having board members. ByteDance says there's no governement relationship to TikTok, the participation just relates to its China market video and information platforms, and the government holding licenses TikTok needs to operation. But of course they'd say that. Others think it's not quite so innocent, and  It would be like if the NSA started having significant influence over Facebook.

 

There is zero doubt that Russia, North Korea, Iran, and China are actively involved in sowing disinformation via social media to create discord in the US (and are doing a good job of it). The upfront, codified government involvement doesn't necessarily mean the intentions are nefarious. There are several ByteDance entities in different countries, including one in the US with its own CEO. They make decisions about the platform. Onlny 20% ownership is Chinese investors. 20% is employee-owned and 60% is various global investors. 

 

But day-to-day operations in other countries vs. government involvement in Beijing are two different things. One theory is that the government is mostly interested in  what comes into China more than what goes out from it.

 

Perhaps another issue with Americans is that TikTok's success is a blow to the ego. "We're #1! We have Facebook and Instagram! We have Google!" With China making advances in many areas, this is more along the lines of "China's way ahead of us in terms of electric cars, so we'll pass laws saying we can't import Chinese electric cars."

 

On 3/7/2024 at 11:59 PM, KenElevenShadows said:

What is it about TikTok that he feels is particularly problematic, out of curiosity? Is it damaging by simply installing the app and opening an account? What data are they mining?

 

All companies track you. This article will give you something to think about. TikTok sets itself up to run in the background, and adapt to system settings that restrict background activity. So if your phone is turned on, even if the TikTok app isn't active, it it still retrieves content, fetches updates, and sends analytic data about your browsing, ISP, etc. Again, this is how all these social media companies work. But TikTok seems to be prioritizing and refining the process to a greater degree.

 

What my son was concerned about has nothing to do with China per se, but the ease of hacking. He feels TikTok's security is low, and given the amount of personal data that's shared, you can be targeted with messages that look like they're coming from (for example) your bank, your local government, a family member, etc. because hackers know what bank you use, where you live, who your relatives are,  and much more. His advice was more along the lines of all social media is horrific and to stay away if possible, but TikTok is worse.

[Doerfler]

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/13/tiktok-ban-bill-house-passes-00146720

[ElmerJFudd]

So, DC lawmakers say that ByteDance reports to the Chinese government due to a set of Chinese national security laws that compel organizations to assist with intelligence gathering.

 

“We have given TikTok a clear choice,” said Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, R-Wash. “Separate from your parent company ByteDance, which is beholden to the CCP (the Chinese Communist Party), and remain operational in the United States, or side with the CCP and face the consequences. The choice is TikTok’s.”

 

The house passed the measure today soundly, I would imagine there aren't any roadblocks to this in the Senate or White House.  

 

[Stokely]

It'll be interesting to see if this gets younger people (aka Tiktok users)  riled up enough to vote over it.   Not much else seems to.  That said, it was bipartisan so I'm not sure who they'd take our their ire on.

We can already see one Presidential candidate changing his previous stance on this and it's for this reason--potential votes.

[David Emm]

Hm... so is it a violation of free speech or a vaccine against the excessive free agency of bad political actors and perhaps moreso, our $#@! neighbors? I like my often-ephemeral rights, but there's a counterbalance in the form of my obligations. There's a vital You Gotta Pay Attention clause. If you knock back several friendly little Vicodin with a pint of Everclear, that's on you. 

 

I suspect that TikTok will quickly regroup so as not to lose the lucrative platform, but either way, its an opening trumpet blast. I doubt that people will change much, but legal liability is going to reshape things out of necessity. All the more reason to support the MPN. Other outlets are too much like being kicked in the taint with a cowboy boot. 😬 

[Philbo King]

Biden said he'd veto it.  

 

Personally I think it'd be the greater good if Musk and Zuckerberg sold their social media to China or Russia so X & FB could be shut down too.