Multi-Effect Pedals, Methods for Setting Patch Levels

[Greg Mein]

I don't really prefer using multi-effect pedals over discrete pedals but there are some distinct advantages to being able to create individual patches for songs when doing gigs. Recently our drummer gave me a Digitech RP350. It's just what I needed for our gigs; simplifies my setup and has all the effects and options I'm likely to ever need.

 

So I got to creating some patches but there's a little issue I've ran into before; getting levels consistent between various patches, for example, when you kick in an overdrive it often seems louder because of the added compression and harmonics but it might actually be quieter overall.

 

So I set up my amp, put a Rode NT1-A on the speaker and plugged it into my Presonus SL1642 mixer to view levels as I created and adjusted patches. I think that worked pretty well. Today I was at it again and for convenience sake just plugged directly into the mixer, I think that probably worked ok also but I'm thinking I might get better accuracy by plugging the pedal into my 828x interface and then viewing levels in one of my DAW programs like Digital Performer or Logic.

 

Is this anything others here have wrestled with and if so have you come up with any kind of go to method for getting levels tweaked in?

[Caevan O’Shite]

Excellent! Very, very good tips on how to deal with that issue.

 

  

51 minutes ago, Greg Mein said:

Is this anything others here have wrestled with and if so have you come up with any kind of go to method for getting levels tweaked in?

I myself ALWAYS, ALWAYS and FOREVER am adjusting my guitar's volume-control[s] (or, using a volume-pedal, or a 'volume-swell' pedal), and also my "touch", my picking-dynamics. So, ALL of THAT has to be considered and factored-in, as well. I might have a piece where my guitar's volume-knob[s] rolled-back frequently or all of the time, and another where it's fairly uniform with little or no changes. I have to somewhat average-out the overall volume-range, or take all that in mind for a given programmed patch on a Digital-Modeling/Multi-Effects unit.

A good sound-person can and will compensate, if and when necessary. 'S been a while 'n a half since I gigged, but I remember it being done, and done well...

If going completely DM/MFX DI to PA and Monitors, I've really enjoyed monitoring through my own full-sized headphones (I'm one of those contrarian luddites that detests using In-Ears).

Some real-live pedals, with or without a DM/MFX, will spring a volume jump (or drop) on you, as well as various virtual pedal models and effects within a MFX unit. Sometimes I not only live with that and/or compensate with my guitar's volume-knob[s] and my "touch", I'll even take advantage of and rely on said jump as a boost for leads and such. For example- surprisingly- there's a large volume-jump when I engage the Chorus Mode of my old TC Electronic Stereo Chorus/Flanger, especially when used in stereo; it's also very FAT, and WIDE in the stereo-image. Great for leads! And I also don't have that or any chorus effect on all the time, either, so it's good for jumping out a bit.

Conversely, .there's a psycho-acoustic phenomenon that takes place when a tremolo effect is engaged: the human ear perceives tremolo as an overall drop in volume, regardless of the actual volume-level of the 'peaks' in the amplitude-modulation. Sometimes, a volume-boost is helpful to have along with the tremolo-effect. Other times, one might want there to be a perceived drop within the band-mix there, to seem to recede into the background a bit.

[Winston Psmith]

I use MFX extensively, both live and for recording, although most of my experience is with Boss' GT-series MFX, so my remarks will reflect that.

 

Faced with 100 or so User Presets, and maybe a dozen Amp Models to choose among, there's a temptation to try one of everything. Why not, they're all in there for a reason, right?

 

It's kind of the reverse of "One-Size-Fits-All." In trying to offer something for everybody, almost any MFX is going to include Models or Effects you probably don't need, and won't use.

 

One approach is to treat the Amp Modeler(s) in the MFX much like a real Amp, which is to say, design an Amp Model (or two, or three) with settings that generally work for you, and build your User Presets around it, by adding effects to the initial Amp Model, just as we would with a real-world rig consisting of an Amp and some effects. Anything with a Level Meter will help you sort out Level Matching, but as Caevan points out above, some effects carry their own psycho-acoustic imprint; Tremolo may seem to produce an overall drop in output levels, while OD/Distortion effects will generally be perceived as "louder," although perversely, I've seen where some OD/Distortion effects result in an overall drop in Output levels!?! One size definitely does NOT fit all . . .

 

Most of us have one Amp we rely on for whatever sounds we need, supplemented and enhanced by effects pedals, or rack gear. IDK anyone who shows up at a gig with an array of different Amps for different tunes? A Marshall or Soldano for Metal, a Fender Twin for Blues, a Vox for some throwback British Invasion tunes? Great way to alienate your bandmates, and incur the wrath of the FOH sound crew.

 

Two elements to be wary of, in many MFX - Compression and EQ. My approach to both is "Less Is More." In every Boss MFX I've ever heard, I've found that if a Factory Preset was too noisy, I could cut the noise simply by turning the Compressor Off. That doesn't mean that the Compressor itself was overly noisy, just that the Factory Presets were cranked way up, and the Compressor boosted the Noise level, by treating it as a low-powered signal.

 

You'll also find some kind of Tone or EQ settings where you might not expect it, like a High Cut and Low Cut in the Mod & Delay effects. Even where expected, there's not a lot of useful info. The OD/Distortion Models will have some kind of Tone settings, so will the Amp Models, and very often the Compressor, and of course, there's usually an onboard Equalizer. All good, except for the fact that most of the Tone controls don't tell you which frequencies they're contouring, or by how much, so you can wind up slicing and dicing your signal at different stages in the signal chain, without being entirely sure what you're doing to it.

[Larryz]

@Greg Mein,  This is a demo on the 355 which is an upgrade on the 350.  I think it will help to watch this demo especially toward the end.  It talks about the FX effects level knob which is a great way to review all patches to insure none of them are going to blow you out of the room and feedback in the louder OD/Dist modes before playing in front of an audience.  The 355 has two amps A and B with one being lounder for lead and the other being the same but less volume for rhythm.  Hope this is helpful...😎

 

 

 

[Greg Mein]

1 hour ago, Larryz said:

@Greg Mein,  This is a demo on the 355 which is an upgrade on the 350. 

That was interesting to watch, a couple of significant changes in the models. This newer one has a looper and also the ability to switch between patch mode and effects mode. With only the three switches and the foot pedal it would require some practice to develop a tap dancing technique to take advantage of all that though! The amp A/B switch is a great feature they both have.

 

Fortunately for me the editing software runs on my old Win10 PC so I've been able to do my editing on the monitor where settings are very visible and without having to manipulate knobs on the unit.

[Greg Mein]

5 hours ago, Winston Psmith said:

One approach is to treat the Amp Modeler(s) in the MFX much like a real Amp, which is to say, design an Amp Model (or two, or three) with settings that generally work for you, and build your User Presets around it, by adding effects to the initial Amp Model

 

This has long been my preferred method when working with these types of units and, I think, makes the most sense. It can be very tempting to get carried away with all the options and possibilities.

For recording at home I have numerous discreet pedals and devices, a wealth of software and also still have a Digitech GSP1101 with the Control 2 board. I didn't want to drag around a rack case for the GSP1101 and didn't want to build another pedal board so this unit is just what I needed. Our drummer was a long time employee of Digitech up in the SLC area and gave me this pedal so I'd certainly never find a better deal on one!